The proof for God of the Bible is very simple. It is an extension of the basic idea of God asking you to look up at the stars and the mountains and ask yourself, Did you do that?
Here it goes: If for an eternity there has been cause and effects, then that means you would have had an eternity to be perfected, to be without sin. But since you still sin, you know there was not an eternity of the past of cause and effects. IF having had an eternity and seeing the exponentional progression since even only 6000 years ago, this shows it will not take an infinity to reach sinlessness, let alone another 6000 years since the first God-conscious Adamic man. For example, man usually does not throw their children in the mouth of the Molech god to burn them to death alive. Israel was suppose to wipe out those nations, but failed, so we do however see a resemblance of it to some extent in Islam teaching their kids suicide mass-murder is holy and righteous, allowing them not to have to wait thousands of years, but they get to go straight to the 72 virgins.
Once an atheist/agnostic or other non-Trinitarian says, fine, then what about the Big Bang, Why can't that be the beginning? they ask. The reason is because nothing in nature happens all by itself, not the big bang, not singularity, nothing! Ergo, God did it! That is to say, since the created things or beings can not have caused it, therefore it is the uncreated that created the creation.
Then the atheist/agnostics accepts this fact, but reaches for another excuse in their mind. They ask then, Why can't God be caused by some god? Since this Proof for God of the Bible is about God uncreated, the answer to that question is that you are trying to disprove some god or gods, but not the concept of the Uncreated Creator God.
After the atheist/agnostic realizes this mistake, finally, they make one last ditch effort to salvage their own religion and faith. They say, Ok fine, Why can't there be gods creating gods? The answer is simple, There can not be an eternity of the past of gods creating gods, because you would have had an eternity to be perfected to be without sin. This takes you back round to the first step.
It is the Perfect Proof for God of the Bible (given Christ). It's always been known even since the time of Moses.
It's interesting after this truth, it is often found that it can't be understood when it is so clear. We must conclude the reason it can't be understood is because of what 1 Cor. 2.13 says,
"And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit" (1 Cor. 2.13).
If you don't have the Holy Spirit in your spirit, how then could you ever understand this Proof of Creation and the Creator of this Proof God of the Bible?
There is always a verse to describe the essence of the spirituality of what is going on in an interaction or scenario such as this thread and the responses seen.
My recommendation is spending a good long time reading over each sentence in the the first post; who knows, you may even come to the cross to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior! Praise the Lord!
$10,000 U.S. is being offered to the first person who can overturn the perfect proof for God of the Bible. [Since nobody has been able to come up with something in the last 5 years, plus I am broke and need the money, this offer has been cancelled - 2010]
The reason for this offer is to show that, still, no agnostic/atheist can find fault with the Proof. In the work world, if someone offers you $10,000 to perform a task, most who seek employment needing the work would do the work, but the atheist/agnostic does not when it comes to their faith because their's is blind faith. It would be an impossible task. In the work world, the non-believer would have been fired, how much more in God's design?
All previous attempts have been removed, because they all had some flaw, and everything is answered in the 4 Step Proof. Only new arguments will be allowed so as not to drown people with repetitiveness.
The only stipulation is the challenger must present his or her case at Biblocality Forums in this thread.
Oh, by the way, if you get crass and abusive, you're banned. This includes nicknames, emails, self-declarations, being ignorant (belligerent), and lying on the 18 questions (now 19) at registration also found under "Edit Profile". If there is no love, then all your efforts are in vain stemming from self.
Get a Conscience!
Before posting, if you are up to the challenge, realize these important points so you don't waste your time:
- people are misreading the proof, in which it is shown how they are misreading it be quoting the words they misread. Please put more effort into reading slowly to really understand what is being said. For example, many are calling the cause and effect feature we witness in creation as being evolution since the amoeba, not delineating before the amoeba there were causes and effects also (this would not be evolution). Do not confuse these two terms - EVOLVING (encompassing all causes and effects) and EVOLUTION (physical development since the amoeba).
This is explained in the first sentence of the Proof, so if people can't even get past the first sentence, DO NOT be surprised if you get banned for being this obstinate.
- hundreds of people have tried and failed.
- please stop just giving mindless self-declarations; back up what you say with reasons. Humility is needed.
- stop trying to make yourself look smart by using big words, but apply those words with reasoning and intelligence.
- when you try to make a point, do so by being specific. If you can't be conscientious enough to be specific, then don't bother attempting a disproof. You need to be courteous, not belligerent. Vagueness, coy and obfuscating thought of your flesh is retarded.
- Christians, with the indwelling Holy Spirit, can easily expose attempts and misdirection and deflection, so don't even try.
- try to read what has already been posted so there is not more duplication. There has been way too much duplication.
- the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible
is very refined, and I have noticed there has been nothing to tweak in this latest round of efforts to disprove it (that is, no new thoughts have been introduced that I have not heard before); the same 4 Steps have been the same since inception. The tweaking is simply to add clarification to be courteous. Please show the same courtesy.
- surely the most talented and cream of the crop atheists/agnostics can provide a thought worth discussing rather than imposing self-declarations by blind faith. Or was that your best effort already?
Why Can't You Believe?
Many of you are probably wondering by now why you can't believe in Jesus. You think to yourself, what is wrong with you as a person?
Let me tell you that sin has so permeated your entire being that it is difficult to know whether you are coming or going, whether to believe one thing or another. You are stuck in your head's rationalizations, moving from one thought to the next about what you are actually doing here on earth, or at the very least, asking why your thoughts are so garbled? Yet no answer satisfies. What is going on
? What is going to happen? How can you know instead of bouncing around in your head? Through your spirit you can know, which is your inner man or inner woman in the deepest inner recesses of your being with its intuition and conscience and ability to commune. It is in that still small voice and inner registrations where God can impart His life to you. Once you are born-again, you may not sense His presence right away, yet you have believed. Therefore, know the Spirit is in your spirit after believing, and He will work within you in your cooperation with the Son. You will begin to sense His abiding presence. The more you abide in Him, the more His grace touches your spirit, then reaching your soul and body, from inner to outer.
If you can just accept this about yourself: you sin and you do make mistakes, that it is not your fault for being born into sin, but you were born into sin which causes you to do the things you do. Sin leads to death; unforgiveness of sins leads to hell, no matter how much you think it not to be the case, for you are desensitized to your sin nature. It may not be your fault that you were born into sin, but it is your fault if you don't come out of sin by giving your life to Christ. How can you give up self? Come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Through His death on the cross there is the promise of forgiveness of all you have ever done, as well as power over sin and self as the Holy Spirit will apply the cross to your life. We are speaking about not only sin but the selfishness of self which is not obedient to the One who created you in His image, that image by which you have a right to know God is the great I AM personally and intimately. The Father who is in heaven is perfectly loving. How well do you treat your parents who are flawed? How are you treating God the Father who spoke forth and the Son created and the Holy Spirit renewed over all of creation to allow you to make the choice.
Jesus is speaking...
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. There is no judgment awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God." (John 3.16,18)
Conclusion to this Whole Thread
The Holy Spirit has shown us in this thread that not only does an atheist/agnostic not have anything to go up against the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible, but they really don't even try. This is how belligerent and obstinate they are in their approach. Myself also having been unsaved once just like you, I know all the struggles the flesh goes through to not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The wisdom that can be imparted is this: when you choose God it is an authentic choice which happens because it is your right, made in the image of God (Gen. 1.26,27), to believe in the truth to accept and receive God's mercy, love and saving grace.
He loves you, and the last thing He wants is for you to perish, but He will not coerce you, nor can He annihilate your existence. To do either of these two things is against His righteousness (way of doing things) and holiness (His nature). Thus, putting you in hell is necessary if you continue to refuse to come to the cross. Jesus said, even if He were to come before you right this minute in Person, still you would not be convinced. You would find some way to rationalize yourself in rejecting Christ.
Don't think you will be convinced with 10 miracles. Even 1000 miracles would not convince you. 10 parchments would not convince you, not even 100,000 parchments would convince you from so many corroborating sources in the lives and experiences of witnesses, even from non-believers who record these events in history of this man Jesus Christ who said He was God. In Case for Christ and Case for Faith by Lee Strobel, there is referenced a hundred different sources from the first century, both secular and non-secular of the life and resurrection of Christ. Whether you believe in Jesus or not, these documents undeniably are on record.
What the atheist/agnostic needs to look at I can not force them to look at. They have to look at it of their own volition and this requires they read with a conscientiousness to bring them to understanding which shows why they are still unregenerates and what keeps them separated from God.
The furthest any agnostic/atheist got never even approached getting past Step 1 in which they do not see the exponential velocity in man's conscience. I could not get anyone to confront this in any meaningful way, because it is their conscience that is the problem, the very thing they don't want to look at in their inner man or inner woman which God is showing them if they would only listen. This is why the greater portion of the Bible is the OT law which no man could keep except Jesus Christ. From this you should know you have a sin nature which is not God's nature, and realize man has taken this sin nature for himself because of disobedience to God. In a very simple way we can say it this way: we will not keep killing each other for another million years. Ergo, Step 1 shows us God created because it doesn't take forever to be perfected into sinlessness.
The avoidance (not inability to see) of this very point about the exponential improvement in conscience is where the unregenerated is stuck. His mind does not want to investigate this. He will do anything with his time, except look at this information. If the consideration is not given to stop repeating things which had already been addressed, then expect to be banned. If a person makes point A, and someone responds with point B, don't regress back to repeating point A, leaving point B unaddressed and undealt with. You are not a clanging bell. Don't be rude!
Those who join unethically have nothing to offer because they begin from false pretense. They should not fabricate their answers since this is dishonest. If their posts are contrary to the information they submit in their profile, this is easily discerned by the Holy Spirit imparted to the believer. Because of this persistent problem from spammers, the owner of the forum, in agreement with the moderators and othe members of the forum, reserves the right to remove any account not being used and disallow any registrant suspected of being a spammer. Sadly, this is the only option available in a house of God, in which spammers are unethically trying to break in.
After hundreds of people have tried in their petty self, but failed, to disprove the 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible
, we can conclude convincingly the Proof is perfect
. In all of history, no writer has ever been able to overturn the Proof for God. If they had someone could have presented their case by now. We give glory to God for His Proof of Himself! And the Proof makes no mention of God first in His Proof to prove Him so as not to be blamed for assuming God first. This is quite opposite to the approach of atheists/agnostics who first assume God does not exist, then derive their false conclusions by overassuming premises
If you want to stay, even if you are not saved, you can still be tolerant of others, so don't misread bearing false witness for this is obstinate and inconsiderate which debases any discussion. And don't lie in your profile when you answer the 18 questions at registration (now 19).
This forum is a privilege to be on to strengthen the body of Christ.