Re: iridescentsquids @ Youtube

Quote Originally Posted by iridescentsquids
"If you don't believe in God it is because you don't believe he exists"

Ah...not exactly. My reasons for not believing aren't "because I don't believe he exists". The reason I don't believe in any of the many concepts of God I've heard is because I'm just not convinced by any of the reasoning or evidence that I've heard. So far. That doesn't mean some day I won't hear evidence that will change my mind, or that I've even made up my mind completely. It just means so far I don't believe.
You admit you "don't believe" God exists. That's Atheism, not Agnosticism. If you were rational you would not hold that position, because you admit you have not made up your "mind completely." An Agnostic has not made up his "mind completely" so he makes no such claim of himself, "I don't believe" God exists. It is illogical and contradictory to be both an Atheist and an Agnostic simultaneously.

I stated, "If you don't believe in God it is because you don't believe he exists" on the assumption you would abide in logic of it since you admit you "don't believe in God." Of course such does not hold true if you violate that logic.

Because you come to the table with this lack of humility and willingness to contradict yourself, nobody can help you, because you are unwilling to recognize you are being dishonest with yourself at the outset.

"Whereas Agnostics don't say they don't believe in God, but they say God could exist. "

Actually, an agnostic simply says they do not "know" (the root "gnostic" means "knowledge", not belief.) . So an agnostic is simply saying they think the answer to the question is not known, or maybe is not knowable. Although I suppose somebody might change their mind a lot, I'm hard pressed to imagine a state in which a person neither believes nor disbelieves, or does both at the same time. If a person is neither believing or not believing, the closest thing I can imagine is that they are changing their mind a lot...sometimes believing and sometimes not as they weigh evidence back and forth.
An Agnostic is not divorced from belief, for they believe they can't know presently; hence, they make no claim God exists or does not exist as you do. I am glad you admit "disbelieving" is not believing, opposite of "believing". To neither disbelieve or believe is what an Agnostic does, because he is not sure. They say God could exist. A person does not have to change their mind, but remains uncertain.

Your problem is you admit you are not sure if God exists yet you believe He does not exist since you don't believe in Him. That is doublespeak. The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

The most important thing to get out of this discussion, in my opinion, is that it's very possible to say "I don't believe in God because I'm not convinced by the evidence I've heard", without saying "I believe..." or "I know..." that God does not exist.
What you should realize is that it is impossible to say logically you "don't believe in God" when you admit you are "not convinced" either way, unless you are willing to believing mindlessly. Since you are willingly to believe mindlessly, it shows a certain disingenuousness. But if you renounced Atheism and became an Agnostic then you would be in a better position to move forward with your life because you would be willing to examine the evidence without deciding ahead of time that you believe God does not exist since you don't believe in Him. This is what I want you to appreciate.

I am such a person. I don't believe in God. But I'm not certain no God exists, or that I've heard all I need to hear to make a definitive statement regarding God or Gods. Far from it. I totally, fully accept that I do not know, and I do not proclaim certainty regarding the truth. I ONLY can tell you with certainty that I don't believe. I know that to be the case. The truth is something that requires evidence to know, and evidence is something we are always getting more of. So I can't disprove, and would make not attempt to disprove, any theist claim.
Since you admit you "do not know" then you should not say you "don't believe in God." I can't lead you into the proof for God and who God is until you appreciate your contradiction in claiming you "don't believe in God" yet admit you "do not know." Such dishonesty with yourself is something you are going to have to let die before you can move forward.