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  1. #1
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    Post Rejecting the God of Prevenient Grace

    Re: payn3a91 (Youtube)

    Quote Originally Posted by payn3a91
    "John Calvin, Luther, etc. weren't born again." Yeah, or so says Rome.
    Rome and Calvinists are unsaved so says the word of God. Those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28) and "God is the Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10). Amen.

    "they're working for their salvation." How? We believe that faith is a gift of God (Eph 2:8-9, 1 Ptr 1), and that we believe because it's been granted for us to (Phil 1:29), and we believe because we're His sheep (John 10:26) and b'c we have been ordained to eternal life (Acts 13:48). If you want to demonize us, at least know what we believe, so you can avoid the "evil tyrant" straw man and shallow ad hominem attacks. BTW nice blasphemy at 3:06
    I couldn't find any blasphemy at 3:06. Why sin bearing false witness?

    Eph. 2.8 says "For by grace are we saved though faith" not "By faith are we saved through irresistible grace." Why is it granted unto us to believe? Because we come to God with an honest heart. You don't because you worship a god who sends people hell for no other reason than they were born into sin. You believe not because you are not of His sheep. You are not of His sheep because you don't come to God with an honest heart (Luke 8.15) so you have been ordained for Hell. How sad for you that you prefer to worship an evil tyrant. I think you know what you believe but don't care anyway. What can God do but send you to Hell then?

    I apologize if I sounded rude earlier, but I must say that I never said that that we're saved by faith thru irresistible grace. The grace and faith are not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. Also, I never said that we go to hell "simply" because we're born into sin, we go to hell because it's what we justly deserve for sinning against a holy God. And how can we come to God with an honest heart on our own if Jesus said we can't unless the Father draws us?
    I think you are under some misconception that OSAS Arminians think that we can come to God on our own, for we believe God provides sufficient grace to all, drawing all, thus any person can freely obtain the gift of repentance, faith and saving grace if they came to God with an honest heart, something which Calvinists are unwilling to do when they declare exaltedly they were irresistibly drawn to be saved. Calvinists teach irresistible grace, so will you renounce Calvinism now?

    You would be sending children to Hell just because they were born into sin because your god was impotent to be able to provide every child who ever lived with sufficient grace to be able to respond His wooing Spirit, whosoever is willing. What you worship therefore is quite demonic.

    also, you can't say that that's the universal call, since he also says in the verse that "I'll raise him up on the last day", which must imply that no one is called who isn't also raised. Is everyone raised? Because of the specific pronouns, this must refer to glorification, not a general resurrection of the just and unjust. Will everyone be glorified? The same logic of an "effectual call" is in Romans 8, since no one is called who isn't eventually both justified and glorified.
    "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6.44). This verse doesn't say everyone who is drawn is saved, only that those who come to Christ must first be drawn, so the drawing would be prevenient sufficient, grace for all or as you call it, a universal call. Since you reject the God of prevenient grace, providing sufficient grace to all to have the choice to respond, you reject the very God of the Bible.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiesVibrant
    I've never heard such a patent misrepresentation of the Doctrines of Grace. Evidently you are still think God is a failure. He wants to save everyone one, but He just can't do it. Why can't He do it? Can you find a verse that says God gave us free will? Either way, Calvinism or Arminianism, if God is truly omniscient, then he knows who will be saved. If he allows those people to be born predestined for hell is He still all loving? You have no right to judge anyone's salvation. Pathetic.
    I don't consider what you deem to be grace actually grace but evil. Why is God a failure by providing everyone sufficient grace to have the choice, whereby some accept and some refuse His saving grace? To force salvation on people would be evil, but since apparently your god can save everyone and doesn't then isn't that evil? I have over 4000 verses that speak of free will. God predestinates by foreknowing our free-choice. Yes that is loving. I am not judging you. God told me.

    Wow 4000. Show me one.
    "If ye be willing and obedient" (Is. 1.19).

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