Quote Originally Posted by Dan Dan the Science Man View Post
You see, that doesn't sway me in the least. If I write a book saying that there's a little green man in my closet who created everything, and then I go on to talk about how something can't come from nothing and so, obviously, it must have been my little green man, and that without my little green man, the universe would have always existed and therefore you would have already existed, that doesn't make my argument any more valid or true.
Actually what we were talking about and the portion you responded to was not who God is but if God exists. Let's worry about whether God is a little green man or Jesus later; or Allah of Islam or Brahma of Hinduism or the new Jehovah of Judaism.

Since the uncreated Creator is proven because nature can't always have existed nor start up from nothing, this is whom we call God.

You wanted to compare your little green man to Jesus. Fine. Not sure who follows your little green man except you, and I am not going to trust you on your claim I don't think you even believe in but just arbitrarily invoked it. I guess you never saw your little green man ever; nor did he tell you that he created all things. There is no history or development behind your little green man, no theology or purpose or meaning except your hostility to God of the Bible.

Christians care about evidence. So compare Jesus whom arrived on the scene exactly when Daniel prophesied. He healed the sick and performed miracles as testified by oral tradition and the writers of the New Testament. And His most important miracle was that He died for the sins of the whole world and proved He is God by His resurrection. I don't know any scholars who believe in your little green man. A loving God would certainly be more accessible than that. Really there are only 3 choices: God of the Bible, the god of Islam or the god of Hinduism since these are accessible though only the Christian God is personal and cares enough enough to enter His creation to solve our sin problem and save us from Hell whosoever is willing.

Almost all scholars who do their primary work on the resurrection claim of Jesus admit the disciples truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings. Therefore, the burden is on you to overturn the evidence of the 66 books of the Bible and specifically the resurrection appearances.

I showed you had no evidence for your little green man but you didn't overturn the evidence of the Bible for Jesus.

I'm not sure how they can testify that the disciples believed this, seeing as they're not around to ask. Even if they did believe, that's not proof, that's 12 uneducated guys from 20 centuries ago agreeing on something.
Why would scholars today need those disciples to be alive today to ask them? If they were alive today that means they weren't alive then so you are demanding a contradiction. Historians don't throw out all history, but glean certain facts. In reading the writings of Peter, John, Paul, James, Matthew, Luke, Jude and Mark and oral tradition we can be confidence as are almost all scholars on the subject that the original disciples truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead. You need a naturalistic explanation that is plausible. If you can't find one then you have nothing to support your beliefs.

Whether someone is educated or not makes no difference because group hallucinations are impossible and people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie. And I am not so sure they are as uneducated as you think since the 120 spoke several different languages and the original disciples and other Apostles wrote the New Testament though some may have had it transcribed for them. Paul was highly educated. Luke was a doctor. Matthew was tax collector, effectively an accountant. So your theory just does not hold up. A wide range of professions are represented.

Moreover, you seem quite uneducated so according to your way of thinking whatever you say is irrelevant anyhow since you wouldn't want to sin by having a doublestandard.

Just because we don't and may never know what created the universe doesn't mean we should throw our hands up and say "Well I guess it must've been God."
But we do know the cause of the universe is the uncreated and this is what God means. Just because you avoid the proof given that nature needs a cause and can't always have existed, shutting your mind down doesn't change that fact. Now that we know the uncreated Creator exists or God let us find out who God is. As we have seen the perfect proof is the resurrection eyewitness testimony for the One who calls Himself God as Jesus did.