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Thread: What atheists actually think

  1. #1
    Faith is a fail Guest

    Default What atheists actually think

    Christians keep trying to define atheists as people who claim there is no god. But if you actually talk to atheists that's often not their position. It may well be something more along the lines of the claims theists are making for the existence of a deity are unjustified or justifications that theists cobble together are unsound.

  2. #2

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    Although I disagree with your username, I agree with your message. You must understand though, you'll see by the members here that they only wish to vilify atheists because the existence and spread of atheism threatens the fantastical world they believe in. The mind does tend to lean towards logical reason, so they have to shield their beliefs with violent delusions which range from atheism being simple misguidance inspired by evil incarnations like Satan or atheism actually being satanism and atheists being evil people that intentionally wish to go to hell secretly. They have to convince themselves that they are right and the only way to do that is to demonise non-believers. I used to be a believer, I know the process. I used to believe the same things they did once, but I realised I was simply deluding myself and here I am.

  3. #3
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    People who call themselves atheists but are really agnostics should stop calling themselves atheists. You shouldn't blame theists for saying you don't believe in God when you call yourself an atheist for that is what atheism means. That's the word for it in the English language, otherwise there is no such word, and that's plain silly. You shouldn't expect people to think otherwise and be mind readers when you use a word improperly and don't really mean what it says.

    The reason why Christians speak the truth about atheists and other unsaved souls is because we don't want you to go to Hell. We do this out of love. We want you to come to the truth and be saved by grace through faith in Christ. We think it is fantastical the universe always existed when mankind would not still be sinning to the extent we still do, having had more than enough time to not still be doing so. Or, how fantastical it is something can come from nothing! What crazy ideas to reject God!

    Violent delusions? Where was Jesus ever violent? He spoke on Hell more than anyone. Remember it was non-Christians who put Jesus to death.

    Very simply atheists want to be eternally separated from God. Don't blame Christians for pointing this desire of yours out. That place Jesus calls Hell is where you are going and He explains why.

    "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved" (John 3.15-20).

    It would be a mistaken to say you were a Christian once before, for the Bible clearly teaches, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand" (John 10.28). You were plucked out so you were never born-again to begin with. You were fake from the get go!

    Logic stands to reason since you want to be eternally separated from God whether you think He exists or not, that is what you want. So you shall have it as you wish. Really you send yourself to Hell but to you they are pearly gates.

    The proof for God is clearly given to you over and over, but you keep shutting your mind down to it. Realize there is a reason you can't overturn the proof for God and who God is, because it is a perfect proof. We should expect nothing less from God,

    http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?3476

  4. #4

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    Everstill, I'm sorry if I offended you with what I said. You may not have been offended, but I'm genuinely sorry if I did.

    I once believed, but I realised they were just delusions of my mind that were sustained with the idea of self-importance and fantasies. I have family that believe, when I do not, I would like to believe again and be in connection with them once more, but I simply do not.

    You say your god is proven, but the first and second premise fail because there is no proof that everything has a cause, nor is infinite regress a problem when everything breaks down to elementary particles, because then the actually reality of time blooms. A time with no beginning nor end.

    Also, athesim simply means that a person does not believe in god. They can be an agnostic atheist who says that he is not convinced that god exists, but does not state that god does not exist or they can be a strong atheist who claims that god does not exist.

    I'm an agnostic atheist. I am not convinced, but I do not say that there is no god.

  5. #5
    Faith is a fail Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by everstill View Post
    It would be a mistaken to say you were a Christian once before, for the Bible clearly teaches, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand" (John 10.28). You were plucked out so you were never born-again to begin with. You were fake from the get go!
    I'm sorry to break it to you but your statement is invalid. You are commiting a No True Scotsman Fallacy. Born again Christians deconvert all the time, you're just presenting evidence that your understanding of John 10:28 is incorrect or that John 10:28 is incorrect.

    "No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing." http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman

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    Realize your "once believed" was according to the Bible not genuine belief for genuine salvation since the Bible teaches those who are born-again "shall never perish". You may not appreciate this because you are not sensitive to it, but that is the truth. Just as you were in a fantasy when you thought you were saved, you carry on in the same mode in fantasy rejecting Christ when God is prove and who God is. Before you could ever truly be saved you must first accept than you were never saved to begin with. Is that something you are willing to do? This self-importance and self-exaltation is not so dissimilar to that of Lucifer when he became Satan.

    I am not sure what first and second premise you are referring to since you don't state them and I have no premises, as the evidence just leads us where it may. Since we see trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence for something coming from nothing, we can be confident the universe did not always exist, because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. Since you can't show anything on the quantum level breaks down so there is no cause and effect, realize you are delusional. The reality of time does bloom. It's most wonderful God's creation. So what you got is an assumption with time existing without a cause, but nothing comes into existence from nothing, for that which does not exist can't produce anything.

    Saying you are agnostic contradicts when you say you are atheist. An agnostic says he is not sure either way. That's the word in the English language to say you are not sure either way. Whereas an atheist says God does not exist whether he thinks he has evidence or not. This notion of strong atheist or weak atheist really is the same thing, since all atheists says God does not exist. So clearly that's a contradiction when you say "atheism means that a person does not believe in god" and then do a 180 and say agnostic atheism "does not state that god does not exist". That's like saying you are going to draw a square circle.

    You're contradicting yourself calling yourself an agnostic atheist. When you say there is no God, then you are atheist not agnostic. Please stop contradicting yourself. That's dishonest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faith is a fail View Post
    I'm sorry to break it to you but your statement is invalid. You are commiting a No True Scotsman Fallacy. Born again Christians deconvert all the time, you're just presenting evidence that your understanding of John 10:28 is incorrect or that John 10:28 is incorrect.

    "No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing." http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman
    "No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing."

    I am not claiming you were never born-again because of my feelings but because the word objectively declares a person who was truly born-again "shall never perish".

    So no Christians deconverts because God says He keeps those who are saved. We whom are are saved never gave our lives a God we can keep ourselves saved, but we gave our lives to a God who keeps us saved because we know we could not keep ourselves saved. This is humility. The Bible says no man shall be saved by works, lest any man should boast. You boasted, now look at you. You are exhibiting No True Scotsman because it is too painful for you to accept you were too selfish to ever give your life to Christ in the first place.

    Jesus said these words and there are dozens of passages throughout God's word to the same effect, nothing to the contrary, so though you may want to exclude John 10.18 from God's word, you would have to throw out all the other passages, then you would have to create new verses 2000 years later, but then that wouldn't be Christianity now would it?

    Since you could not find another way to interpret John 10.28 and all options are exhausted, then you got nothing. Just asserting I misread it, doesn't count. You got to show it, like I showed you what it says, that those who are born-again "shall never perish". Roman Church is wrong. And so are you.

    Pray on this.

  8. #8

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    You seem to believe that the world revolves around your god. I never ever thought I was saved... You're making assumptions about me that simply aren't true.

    Again, your two arguments fail. We do not see trillions of causes in nature. You can't prove that. You think you can, because you don't understand how things actually work, but you can't. There are only 4 forces in nature that cause things. Not trillions. Also everything has not been proven to have a cause, therefore the assumption that everything is caused is unproven. Radioactive Decay is considered by scientists to be completely spontaneous and therefore causeless.

    Furthermore, time breaks down at the quantum level and becomes almost spatial, there is no beginning or end and it can go backwards and forwards.

    If you truly understood how the world works, you would no think these are good arguments, but just as your friends did, you'll likely shut your mind off to the reality of things, just so as to feed this illusion of self-importance.

    An agnostic is a person that thinks that the existence of god is unknown or unknowable. I do believe that. An agnostic may believe god exists, whilst at the same time believing that there is no evidence to support it. If the agnostic believes in god, he is a agnostic theist. If he is not an agnostic theist, then he is an agnostic atheist.

    You either believe in god or you don't. There is no in between. You can't both believe in god and not.

    I did not say there is no god, I said I didn't believe in god.

    I suppose the question here is. Do agnostics believe in god?

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    Where did I say you said you were saved like Faith is fail said he once was?

    You're misunderstanding how I am using the term causation. Anything that exhibited a cause is included. For example, if you were to spill over your drink it was because you were careless, but also because you were born, for if you weren't born, you would never have spilled over your drink.

    There are constants and variables of the universe and you might be right there are these four immutable laws, but that does not infringe on the way I am using the term causation that we clearly see taking place in time with trillions and trillions of cause and effects.

    I don't know any scientists who claims radioactive decay happens all by itself from nothing, for that is just silly, since that which does not exist can't cause anything. They keep studying and looking for causation to better understand. I don't see them closing up shop, so clearly you are delusional.

    You don't need to be all-knowing like God to know the universe always has a cause, for the overwhelming preponderance of evidence is beyond a shadow of a doubt with trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing.

    There is nothing in quantum mechanics that says time goes backward instead of forward or that causation no longer exists. Never seen any credible scientists who think that so clearly you are delusional. Remember if time had no beginning or end, still you would have happened already, so that blows your theory. You would still need to account for how this no beginning or end of time came into being in nature, since all things in nature need a cause.

    This may pride you in thinking time has no beginning or end to reject God so that we would just come around to this point in time again, but remember, there is no evidence for this silly claim, but it might make a good movie. Let's just stick with what we do know and see where it leads us. We know nature always observes cause and effect.

    Agnosticism is believing there is no evidence either way so can't be sure either way, and atheism is believing that God does exist. So you can't be agnostic atheist or agnostic theist. The correct description of a theist or atheist without evidence is simply they are delusional just like you. The word in the English language to say you are not sure either way is called agnosticism. You can't believe in God and not believe in God, but you can say you are not sure either way. This is agnosticism.

    Agnosticism is claiming to not have evidence either way so not sure either way. Therefore, an agnostic can never be atheist or theist. Atheism is saying you don't believe in God because you don't believe He exists as it wouldn't make much sense not to believe in God when you know He exists.

    Here is the definition of atheism: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" (Ps. 53.1).

  10. #10

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    Where did I say you said you were saved like Faith is fail said he once was?
    You said "when you thought you were saved":

    "Realize your "once believed" was according to the Bible not genuine belief for genuine salvation since the Bible teaches those who are born-again "shall never perish". You may not appreciate this because you are not sensitive to it, but that is the truth. Just as you were in a fantasy when you thought you were saved, you carry on in the same mode in fantasy rejecting Christ when God is prove and who God is."

    I find that Christians are so inconsistent within their own speech that it's no wonder that they're fine with the inconsistencies of the Bible.

    You have no knowledge of the real world. You're a delusional religious fundie that only wants to see the world from within your own bubble. You're likely uneducated and ignorant to the true aspects of reality and completely unschooled in science.

    Your understanding of cause-effect and time is infantile. Scientists DO say that radioactive decay is uncaused. It's because you don't understand this why you're able to make such ridiculously weak arguments for god as you've presented. At a quantum level we realise that time doesn't cause anything and is just a dimension just like the 3 dimensions of space. You can go backwards and forwards along it. Cause and effect are not caused by it, the causes of things are caused by the four fundamental forces. Not trillions of random ****.

    Your argument fails. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of science, a complete lack of understanding of time and a complete lack of understanding of logic.

    Do more research before you make arguments.

    You failed to answer my question. Do agnostics believe in god?

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