The Unthinking Atheist

[Parture]

Wrong... your god remains completely unproven. There isn't a single shred of evidence that your god exists. You want to believe it based on complete tautology and circular reasoning, but this is just a part of your mind that's trying to protect yourself from the dying belief in your imaginary friend. The use of the term "imaginary" here, is not mathematical.

I am glad you can't show any tautology or circular reasoning. His yoke is easy, I find this no difficulty or problem whatsoever to know that if there was an eternity of the past of cause and effects in all the universes you proposed and types of time, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. Contrariwise, you would never have happened because eternity would have kept on going before it could ever have gotten to you. Since nature therefore needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, this uncreated Creator is whom we call God. Why don't you study Hilbert's Paradoxical Hotel of Infinity? This may help you wake up from the deep dark slumber you are in. I am still waiting also from you for a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs.

But lol, regardless of these clear facts, you'll still continue in your denial based on nonsense. You'll rename this nonsense and call it "proof" and then think that this will work in the real world, while everyone else laughs at you. Your attempts are truly ridiculous, however you do bring up one valid correlation. Why do we exist? This has been asked since Mesopotamian times and has been answered by thousands of different religions world wide.

Ignore your vague talk, to answer your question, Why do we exist? we exist to give glory to God and fellowship with Him in that glory, like a great leader surrounds himself with great people. It is only in Christianity do we find God enter into His creation personally and selflessly willing to pay for the sins of the world. God wants to receive those who truly receive Him as He is, Who takes up Himself the sins of the world. If you are too selfish to receive the love of God, then surely you don't think you can be with God, but must go to Hell. And no other religion has the resurrection proof which is the best proof of all. I am glad people in history ask questions. I am not sure how that is an argument you are making of any kind. Perhaps you can elaborate. But know God is choosing a people for Himself He selected before the foundations of the world. The rest such as yourself go to Hell.

It's nice to know now that science shows us that time itself is an illusion. That everything has simply always existed.

Your arguments have been utterly destroyed. I think my work is done here.

I am glad you can't find any credible scientists who think time is an illusion. You're watching too many movies. Since nature is always seen to have a cause, nature could not always have existed for you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. You lose.

Don't run away from reality, it's not healthy for you.

[Yrost]

Nature is not always seen to have a cause. You have yet to prove this with anything other than the tautology of saying. "Trillions and trillions of causes". You're saying that you're proving that all things are seen to have a cause because all things need cause. This is tautological and false.

Again, time at the quantum level provides no problem with infinite regress.

Christianity isn't healthy for human beings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJksLRtberQ
http://www.myth-one.com/memorial.htm

[Parture]

Trillions and trillions of causes is not a tautology but a fact we observe which is powerful evidence along with no hard evidence for something coming from nothing.

Yes, all things need a cause in nature because of the overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt with trillions and trillions of causes in nature. It's like you are playing a lottery with odds against you more than a trillion to one. Surely you will lose and find yourself in Hell one day.

Quantum level exhibits the same problem as the rest of nature, if there was an infinite regress, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so.

Atheism is not healthy for you because it denies the solution to your sin problem (e.g. sinning bearing false witness against Christians or claiming people are Christians who are not) so you remain in your sins and shall die in your sins. Sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell. How sad for you, for you know not what you do.

All you need do is ask yourself, Would Jesus do that? If the answer is No, according to the Scriptures, then you are just like the Satan that great accuser who also can't prove his accusations.

[Yrost]

No... at quantum levels time breaks down into a mere dimension like space. There is no beginning or end. There is no backwards or forwards. It's very simple.

Nitrogen-14 atoms spontaneously form from Carbon-14 atoms. There is no cause proven for this, therefore making your causes argument unproven.

[Parture]

There is no evidence time breaks down. There is no evidence time has no beginning. You admit your theory is unproven according to all the links you give me that say it is unproven. There is no evidence time doesn't go forward. There is no evidence something happens from nothing. You have to prove it. Just because you can't see the cause, doesn't mean there is no cause.

What we can prove is that there are trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing. Therefore, this necessitated infinite regress, but you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. The cause for the universe must, therefore, be outside of time and space. This is whom we call God and we know Who is He by Christ, because of the proof of His resurrection and you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs. Nobody can, because the past two thousand years all possibilities have been exhausted.

This proof is so important because it leaves everyone without excuse. It is something we all intuitively know.

Praise the Lord!

[Yrost]

There is
You haven't read anything on Quantum Mechanics have you?

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/jono/thesis.html

[Parture]

I was told that there are as many quantum theories as there are quantum scientists, so I don't place much stock in so many conflicting beliefs that really fill people's own personal bias. I do think it is disingenuous to try to disprove God with that which is most complicated rather than trying to do so in stuff more well known. Suffice it to say, what we can discern with complete confidence is that we always see causation in nature, so that leads to infinite regress. Therefore, we would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so.

So the universe needs a cause that is outside of itself, outside of time and space. This is the God who I humbly submit myself to in reverence through Jesus Christ who fully reveals Himself to us by the proof of His resurrection and working in us to know all things sum up in Christ. God graced me with this knowledge because I sought Him out with all my heart and soul. May you do the same.

I can see the problem the future holds as those who are anti-God will come up with bizarre quantum theories to aid in their hostility, but they are of course mad as a hatter. We explore the universe not to try to disprove God, but discover more of His wondrous glory.

When I ask myself how would I have created the universe? I would have done it exactly the way God does. I can't even think of something that could be better. It's perfect. Have you this same reverence for God? Ask yourself the same question. What would you remove or add? Do you think you could improve on it? Let me know.

[Churchwork]

It's clear Hawkings in his latest book is trying to find a way to prove God does not exist, but not with much success. How big a hole do you think Hawkings will dig for himself?

You do need God to explain the universe, because if the universe always existed, you would have happened by now, having had an eternity to do so. Never forget those words.

Even Hawkings admits the universe had a beginning at the south pole. How did this time regime come into existence? Empty space isn't nothing. It needs a cause as well. Hawkings doesn't look back far enough.

Vacuum space doesn't exist prior to the universe. Hawkings doesn't address the fundamental issue where this time regime comes from. You can't start with the space dirt.

Hawkings ironically is proving a Creator because he doesn't know what occurred before the bottom of the south pole and concedes the fine tuning is truly miraculous. Many worlds are used to explain fine tuning. We are just lucky we are in the finely tunned one that many worlds produce. But then where do the many world comes from? Never ending nonsense! How can someone so smart be so dumb? Truly, God is no respecter of persons.

Scientists and philosophers are not fooled by Hawkings anti-reality agenda. He actually said both young earth creationism and the 13.7 billion year old universe are true. Endless contradictions. Satan is the author of confusion. The evil spirit dwells within the heart of Stephen Hawkings.

Occam's Razor needs to be brought in to save the day. Get rid of your worlds, get rid of your south pole, get rid of your imaginary time. Very simply we have the universe and the Creator of the universe.

[Churchwork]

"I don't know any Christian who would disagree with these options,...not those who are going to Hell as you are,"
According to Pope John Paul II the Bible doesn't say I'm going to hell and the last survey I saw said that over three fourths of Christianity agrees that I'm not. That you're kicking me out for taking a position held by most of Christianity is very telling, you really should have heard of this before now.

Certainly you must wonder why the scientific community doesn't take the proofs you're using seriously. It must be very strange to think you have a definitive proof for god and wonder why people don't accept it.

The problem is your inability to listen to people with opinions other than your own. It's why this place is an echo chamber reinforcing the correctness of your flawed proofs instead of a place where you can get the criticism necessary to revise them. Instead your left thinking that there are no "naturalistic" explanations for the creation of the universe. A position which is demonstrably wrong:

"The Big Bang was the result of the inevitable laws of physics and did not need God to spark the creation of the Universe, Stephen Hawking has concluded." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...-Universe.html

Since it's clear that your going to kick me out at this point I'm off to re-post this conversation in a number of other forums. I kick the dust off my feet and leave you with 1 Peter 3:16 to contemplate the ridicule and insults you've used throughout this exchange in the hope that you'll act toward others in the future in a more Christian manner.

"But do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ." (1 Peter 3:16 NLV)

Firstly, the Pope is not a Christian and the Bible speaks against the Roman Church. But I already said that which you overlooked. Secondly, none of those people you put in your poll are Christians, for Christians know Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone and that most people are going to Hell. Hell is wide and vast. Compare that the New City which is only 1379 x 1379 miles. Jesus is the one defines Christianity and He says you are "condemned already" (John 3.18). I am on team Jesus not your hateful team.

Most of the scientific community agrees something can't come from nothing whether they are Christian or not, and they agree necessarily then there must exist an infinite regress in such a case so you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. Hilbert's Paradoxical Hotel is often cited. Some may not like the conclusion, but it is inescapable that then nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space. This is whom we call God. That's frustrating for you I know, but that's reality.

The problem is you don't listen, that's why you keep avoiding these points, so you sound like a clanging bell. Evidence is what matters but you have no evidence for your silly theories. Hawkings admits imaginary time is admittedly unproven. He himself admits there is nothing before the south pole and nothing before the singularity, so why should there be anything rather than nothing? You can propose any silly theory you like but if it is not backed by some evidence really what is it worth? The evidence is we have trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence something happens all by itself from nothing.

Stephen Hawkings is wrong. He is not fooling the majority of the scientific community with His Grand Delusion. It's widely known he is searching far and wide to explain the universe without the need for God, but since Hawkings is unable to disprove this proof, then he is wrong. Sending me the same link again that doesn't address the problem I have to keep repeating back to you reflects badly upon you and the weakness of your stance.

You're still misreading 1 Pet. 3.16. Why don't you address how you misread this verse rather than repeat the same mistake? Again, you're a clanging bell of nonsense. Satan whom you follow is the author of confusion and great accuser, so you can see how you take after him, as he doesn't make sense and can't back up anything just like you.

"Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ." (1 Pet. 3.16). Since I have told you the truth I have a good conscience, but you don't and so you should be ashamed. I would be ashamed if I were you. So you're like this rogue cell in the body that doesn't adhere to the body, replicating itself, unruly, and infecting the whole body. This is you. So you can see why we have to throw people in jail for life and God has to lock you up in Hell for eternity, because you are unhealthy to be around.

The responsibility of a Christian is to tell you these truths whether you like them or not. That's all we can do. Now the choice is yours to decide whether to accept reality or remain delusional.

By the way, you also also given a false quote of that verse since no manuscripts agree with that particular NLT interpretation. It doesn't start off with "do this in a gentle and respectful way". That is not to say we don't, just that you have actually misused this verse by adding to the text that which is not there. Think about that. Think about the motivation behind why you do that. You're actually accusing Jesus.

Clearly you are going to Hell. This is part of the gospel.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved" (John 3.18-20).

Why accuse Jesus of being disrespectful and not being gentle? Why should Jesus respect you for calling Him a liar? Why should He be gentle with you because you hate Him? Rather, He should be firm and bold in explaining to you that you are a bad person who belongs in Hell. How sad for you this is the type of person you want to be. I truly feel sorry for you, for you know not what you do.

p.s. Since you keep selecting as one of the options in your profile a gift for the Church as defined in the Bible yet you are not a member of the body of Christ, clearly you are being dishonest, and that's not good. How can you be a gift for the Church when you call Jesus and the disciples' liars? That makes no sense at all. Morever, you still have not found a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs. How much bigger a hole do you want dig yourself?

[Churchwork]

A great verse to show Jesus exists outside of time and space is Matthew 8, "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head" (v.20). That is to say, outside of time and space the uncreated Creator does not exist in some domain, but there is just God Almighty, so when He enters His creation and people forsake Him, He likewise has no home on earth to make His abode as He keeps getting run out of town by those who are antichrist like atheists.