The Unthinking Atheist

[Parture]

I read that page. It all sounds quite speculative at best. They say there are as many quantum theories as there are quantum scientists. Which one is right?

There is nothing about imaginary time being cyclic anyway mentioned on that wiki page, so you are just concocting silly theories to reject God.

Time as a spatial dimension doesn't change the fact if there was an infinite regress, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. For example, this world didn't just come here from nothing. It had a cause. The north pole has a cause.

The article agrees with what I said, for it said, "But when visualized with imaginary time, the singularity is removed and the Big Bang functions like any other point in spacetime."

So a cause is needed. Time can't just come into being from nothing.

[Yrost]

You didn't understand the article at all.

"But when visualized with imaginary time, the singularity is removed and the Big Bang functions like any other point in spacetime." This means that using imaginary time, the big bang is not the beginning of our universe. It references no causal agents.

Imaginary time isn't proven, but it explains actual phenomenon that can not be explained with real-time and excludes a need to explain it with a god or gods which don't explain any phenomenon.

Imaginary time, just might be the actual reality and real time is the illusion.

[Parture]

"Any other point in space time" is always causal, so placing the big bang in the universe still exhibits required causation. Since causation exists in your admittedly unproven imaginary time, there would be an eternity of the past of cause and effects. Consequently, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. So nature needs a cause that is outside of itself, outside of time, imaginary time, space, matter and antimatter. This is whom we call God.

[Yrost]

No... points in time say nothing about cause. Furthermore imaginary time has no beginning nor end. Infinite regress does not apply.

[Parture]

Since all we see in time is causal, time is intrical to the causal process. There is not really just only time and only space, but it is space-time. Your admittedly unproven imaginary time still has beginning and end (the wiki page doesn't say otherwise), so infinite regress is a problem, because infinite regress is not possible, and that leaves you with a dead theory.

[Yrost]

You didn't understand the math on the page, I see. Then this article explains it simpler for you.
http://www.suite101.com/content/imag...u-think-a21794

Hartle and Hawking clearly state that Imaginary Time has no beginning or end and that it is probably what real time actually is without the illusion that's created by our minds.

It's not proven, but that's from proper scientific standards. In these standards your god isn't proven either. From your standards, imaginary time is proven, because it explains the problems you have, it explains infinite regress as imaginary time is a traversal dimension, it has no beginning nor end and can exist for infinity just like actual space does ^^.

Lastly, your assertion that everything has a cause isn't proven either. What causes electromagnetism?

[Parture]

I guess you didn't read that article very well, as was already said our earth just didn't happen all by itself, so the north pole didn't just happen all by itself. There is a cause from the stars.

Even if time had no beginning in your imaginary universe, you would have happened already anyway, having had an eternity to do so, so this proves clearly there cannot be infinite regress. Hence, the cause of the universe must be that which is outside of time and space. This is whom we call God.

As was said before, if something is without a cause from nothing, that violates all the laws of science since that which does not exist can't produce anything and flies in the face of the trillions and trillions of causes we do observe, so surely you are mad. It's like you are playing a lottery with odds against you more than a trillion to one hoping you could still one.

And of course, you don't need to be all-knowing like God to know if God exists, since obviously you will never be God. To realize how pretentious you are, even if there was one last thing you didn't know you would still hold out it could disprove God. There is such a thing as false humility and I think we are seeing it in you.

[Yrost]

You're still applying causal concepts from real time to imaginary time. Imaginary time has no beginning nor end. Therefore there can be no infinite regress. All cause and effects in time as we perceive are an illusion created by imaginary time.

[Parture]

Time and imaginary time would both have causation. There is nothing you were able to show otherwise to overturn the trillions of causes we see in nature, and no hard evidence for something from nothing. There is nothing in the articles you presented me that it would be without cause.

The website says imaginary time is unproven. Even if imaginary time exists with no beginning or end, it still needs a cause, for nothing in nature is without a cause. That is our overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If imaginary time is real, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so, so your faith is a failure. An infinite regress round and round in imaginary time could not go on forever in the past, because you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so.

Imaginary time in no way shape or form suggestions the time we do observe is illusory or non-causal, so you are reaching in desperation. When you drop an apple, it's because causally gravity is at work and you released it with your hand.

You see atheists have to devise insane ideas to match the insanity of rejecting God as well as shut their minds down to the trillions and trillions of causes in nature with no hard evidence something happens from nothing. Since you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs, this proves who the uncreated, timeless, spaceless, immaterial Creator is.

[Yrost]

Wrong... your god remains completely unproven. There isn't a single shred of evidence that your god exists. You want to believe it based on complete tautology and circular reasoning, but this is just a part of your mind that's trying to protect yourself from the dying belief in your imaginary friend. The use of the term "imaginary" here, is not mathematical.

But lol, regardless of these clear facts, you'll still continue in your denial based on nonsense. You'll rename this nonsense and call it "proof" and then think that this will work in the real world, while everyone else laughs at you. Your attempts are truly ridiculous, however you do bring up one valid correlation. Why do we exist? This has been asked since Mesopotamian times and has been answered by thousands of different religions world wide.

It's nice to know now that science shows us that time itself is an illusion. That everything has simply always existed.

Your arguments have been utterly destroyed. I think my work is done here.