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Thread: What Love is This?

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    Default What Love is This?

    Post this on Calvinist sites and see what kind of response you get:

    Where is the love in assuming you were irresistibly regenerated and allegedly given no choice in the matter just as you claim others were denied any opportunity for salvation?

    I recently did just that at http://aomin.org/articles/chat.html and they banned me.

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    Man is not regenerated by doing something special but by believing the Lord Jesus as his Savior: "to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave the power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1.12-13). First you must be willing to "receive him" then you may "become children of God" NOT the other way around. There is not some regeneration before salvation, for salvation is regeneration. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Tit. 3.5). "Saved us" here is "washing of regeneration". To be regenerated/saved one must do what? "Believe in his name"; NOT assume pridefully you were irresistibly regenerated and without prior having had to believe on Him. For that is a selfish salvation.

    God is the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" NOT "Savior of all men [to sustain men but not from Hell], specially those who believe". The "specially those who believe" are included in the "Savior of all men", yet some men included in "Savior of all men" are going to Hell. Do you see the contradiction? It's impossible to claim God is the Savior of all men though some for Hell AND specially those who believe BECAUSE nobody who believes is going to Hell.

  3. #3
    David Hewitt Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    Post this on Calvinist sites and see what kind of response you get:

    Where is the love in assuming you were irresistibly regenerated and allegedly given no choice in the matter just as you claim others were denied any opportunity for salvation?

    I recently did just that at http://aomin.org/articles/chat.html and they banned me.
    I would suspect that you would be told that you haven't represented the doctrine of "Irresistible Grace" properly among other things. :)

    Dave Hewitt

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hewitt View Post
    I would suspect that you would be told that you haven't represented the doctrine of "Irresistible Grace" properly among other things. :)

    Dave Hewitt
    That's what I hear, but they can never show it.

  5. #5
    David Hewitt Guest

    Default I think they can show you...

    ..they just haven't been willing to because they are weary of the frequent messages about how such people aren't saved. I know this to be the case, at least partly, of why you or another keeps getting banned from James White's chat channel.

    I am able and would be happy to explain the doctrine to you if you would like.

    dave

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    That's silly. Coyness is never the answer. You exhibit the same unethical behavior. Calvinism is a cult and like other cults they shut their minds down, ban those who speak plainly against them why they are a cult. I would be happy to respond to anything you say. You won't get banned here for discussing like you do on Calvinist sites. You can even claim someone is unsaved and you don't get banned for that either. Their position is so untenable all they can do is like John Calvin kill the Arminians or in this day and age, ban them from the internet. James White definitely is unsaved and in all probability going to Hell, because he will likely never give his life to Christ. He worships a false Christ. Your conscience can't see this because likewise I am sure it has not been quickened by the Holy Spirit, but I pray one day you will. You're underestimating what a bad man he is: he is "condemned already" (John 3.18) for refusing God's way of salvation for another. There's lots of a good videos on the internet that show James White is not born-again.


  7. #7
    David Hewitt Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    That's silly. Coyness is never the answer.
    Well, the intent was never to be coy or cute. So my apologies if it came across that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    You exhibit the same unethical behavior.
    Here you lost me: What Scriptural principle or command did I violate? I missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    Calvinism is a cult and like other cults they shut their minds down, ban those who speak plainly against them why they are a cult.
    Well, if Calvinism were really what you make it out to be, then I would agree with you. However, whether you realize it or not, you really do not understand what the so-called 5 points of Calvinism really entail. Being able to quote the doctrines is only a start of course; fleshing them out properly is another thing all together. For example, the Doctrine of Irresistible Grace, or Effectual Calling as it is often called, simply means that when God seeks out to save someone, He does. This is accomplished by causing someone to be born again/regenerated by the Holy Spirit which instantly produces faith in the person by which the person is then justified. Regeneration is not the whole of salvation, and neither is justification; they are both integral parts of it, though, of course. I would be happy to elaborate on that if you like, but it would probably be better to start back up the stream a bit. Effectual Calling is the fourth head of Doctrine, and though one can indeed support it with Scripture in and of itself (such as <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=john+6%3A37-40&src=esv.org">John 6:37-40</a>) it helps to start at, well, the beginning with anything. Wouldn't you agree? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    I would be happy to respond to anything you say. You won't get banned here for discussing like you do on Calvinist sites. You can even claim someone is unsaved and you don't get banned for that either.
    Hadn't planned on saying anyone isn't saved, but nice to know all the same. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    Their position is so untenable all they can do is like John Calvin kill the Arminians or in this day and age, ban them from the internet. James White definitely is unsaved and in all probability going to Hell, because he will likely never give his life to Christ.
    Here is something that I cannot understand. For example... Calvin was dead before there was anyone around who would call themselves an Arminian at all. Furthermore, how is it that you can know the status of salvation for anyone? Dr. White readily affirms that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone...so I fail to see why you say what you do or what basis you have for saying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    He worships a false Christ. Your conscience can't see this because likewise I am sure it has not been quickened by the Holy Spirit, but I pray one day you will.
    A false Christ? I'm afraid I'd have to ask for some documentation of that, and in something other than videos that you have produced. :) It is also interesting to note that you use the terminology of being "quickened by the Holy Spirit." That's called "regeneration" in some circles, and indeed, it is something that the Holy Spirit does. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved View Post
    You're underestimating what a bad man he is: he is "condemned already" (John 3.18) for refusing God's way of salvation for another. There's lots of a good videos on the internet that show James White is not born-again.
    Care to point one out other than one you produced? Perhaps some primary sources, maybe one of his videos where he denies foundational tenants of the Christian Faith?

    Thanks, Troy!

    sdg,
    dbh

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hewitt View Post
    Well, the intent was never to be coy or cute. So my apologies if it came across that way.
    So far coyness has been your thing. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

    Here you lost me: What Scriptural principle or command did I violate? I missed it.
    The simple matter of being unable to substantiate your belief.

    Well, if Calvinism were really what you make it out to be, then I would agree with you. However, whether you realize it or not, you really do not understand what the so-called 5 points of Calvinism really entail.
    Oh don't be coy. Make it out to be what?

    Being able to quote the doctrines is only a start of course; fleshing them out properly is another thing all together. For example, the Doctrine of Irresistible Grace, or Effectual Calling as it is often called, simply means that when God seeks out to save someone, He does. This is accomplished by causing someone to be born again/regenerated by the Holy Spirit which instantly produces faith in the person by which the person is then justified. Regeneration is not the whole of salvation, and neither is justification; they are both integral parts of it, though, of course. I would be happy to elaborate on that if you like, but it would probably be better to start back up the stream a bit. Effectual Calling is the fourth head of Doctrine, and though one can indeed support it with Scripture in and of itself (such as <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=john+6%3A37-40&src=esv.org">John 6:37-40</a>) it helps to start at, well, the beginning with anything. Wouldn't you agree? :)
    The problem with your irresistible grace theory is that it doesn't give the person the choice and just irresistibly imposes it on a person. Since such behavior is unethical for us towards one another, it would be for your god too showing you that you are not a Christian. What's even worse is your god sends people to hell without any opportunity for salvation. Again, that is Satanic. In Christianity, faith can be freely obtained by anyone; not so in Calvinism.

    Hadn't planned on saying anyone isn't saved, but nice to know all the same. :)
    How ecumenical of you. That in itself is wrong, and you missed the point. The point is it is wrong to silence the voice of Christians against Calvinism. We should be allowed to freely speak the truth.

    Here is something that I cannot understand. For example... Calvin was dead before there was anyone around who would call themselves an Arminian at all. Furthermore, how is it that you can know the status of salvation for anyone? Dr. White readily affirms that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone...so I fail to see why you say what you do or what basis you have for saying it.
    Those who rejected John Calvin's beliefs are those who were targeted for execution. That would include Arminians. Arminianism is a belief system before or after Arminius. A person reveals whether they are saved or not: we shall know them by their fruit. If you can't know if someone is saved and who is a member of the body of Christ then you have no fellowship. It is all pretentious. Faith alone and grace alone are to James White not what they are to Christians. These may be freely obtained but to White they are not. They are irresistibly imposed on a person or denied. As Dave Hunt says, What Love is This? God is relational so He enjoys our responses and freely obtaining the water of life. He doesn't have to be like you and your god. Your god really is pathetic.

    I understand you don't understand when you said of yourself you: "I fail to see why you say what you do or what basis you have for saying it." However, that contradicts your former statement: "whether you realize it or not, you really do not understand what the so-called 5 points of Calvinism really entail." This is obviously doublespeak. The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8). Just know you don't have a conscience to see what Christians can see because you are not born-again. It's impossible for you to see what we can see. Attempting to teach an unregenerate to worship God of the Bible or do good is like trying to teach a dead man. You can't understand. God has not given it to you to be able to. All I can do is continue to encourage you to seek after God with an honest heart and you shall surely find Him. If you don't, then you won't.

    A false Christ? I'm afraid I'd have to ask for some documentation of that, and in something other than videos that you have produced. :) It is also interesting to note that you use the terminology of being "quickened by the Holy Spirit." That's called "regeneration" in some circles, and indeed, it is something that the Holy Spirit does. :D
    But this is something the Holy Spirit has not done for you because God does not save that way you want Him to. He won't save you being selfish.

  9. #9
    David Hewitt Guest

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    My goodness Troy... I can see why so many people do not wish to interact with you, and I am afraid I'll have to be one of them. I have read how you conducted yourself over at CARM:

    http://www.carm.org/troy-brooks

    and how it has been you rather than the host of the site who was acting in an un-Christian manner. If there is a particular text over which we have disagreement that you would like to discuss, then we can do so. However, it will have to be done without your constant accusations of a person being lost or your assuming the worst from what I am saying. I assure you, I meant nothing hostile or deceptive in what I had previously posted, but it seems you insisted that I did. If we cannot get past that, then there will be an impass rather quickly.


    sdg,
    dbh

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    Oh you are just being coy again with your tail between your legs.

    Here is the response to that link of Matt Slick which he has not dealt with,

    http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...to-Troy-Brooks

    Clearly you can see the sins of Matt Slick and why he is not born-again. One is not allowed to discuss these things on a Calvinist site because as we have seen they ban and censor like that murderous Protestant Pope of Geneva would do. You can discuss them here though with no fear of being removed for simple discussion on forums.

    What you believe is really wrong for if it is evil for man to act like this then it is evil for your god also. You, Matt Slick and James White are clearly unsaved according to God's word. Almost all Calvinists are going to Hell. Don't blame me for what the Holy Spirit proves in the word of God.

    I think your coyness is deceptive. You still don't deal with the problem before you that this is evil. If it is evil for us to act like this then it is evil for the god of Calvinism. There is no two ways about it. Praise be to God grace is not irresistible, atonement is not limited, election is not unconditional, man is not totally depraved and we don't persevere but the saints are preserved.

    My prayers go out to you because you are lost. If that will be all fine, but just know my door is always open to you. This is another difference between Christians and Calvinists. Calvinists shut their minds down, cut off the line of communication, because their backs are up against the wall. What else can they do since they don't want to repent? Alas, they can't even repent because of their idol they erect in which they assume they were Totally unable to.

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