You Need to Be Regenerated Before You Can Be Born-Again?

[Churchwork]

Adhominem attacks are fruitless. Secondly you need to read once again. Let me parse it for you (born again after you believe) this means faith precedes regeneration. I have posted so many videos proving how faith precedes regeneration it is funny that someone would present a strawman against me saying that I believe regeneration precedes faith. I suggest you read before you post, it will be alot more fruitful. Gb

I am glad you couldn't show an ad hominem attack. Well looks like I am not going to get you to address your specific contradiction: "done by regeneration, then then would be no reason to be born again after you believe." Let's try another approach to help you see Total depravity is heresy...

A person who you claim is Totally depraved can't respond to the Gospel you said unless God draws them.

But since God draws everyone then nobody is Totally depraved. Do you see that? Hence, to teach Total depravity as the reason why some people go to Hell is a lie.

At the fall man never becomes Totally depraved or anytime after that because God always provides sufficient grace. Praise the Lord!

Therefore, Total depravity is just a pet teaching, an idol, a false teaching that most Calvinists use to eternally separate themselves from God. It's very sad really.

[moderatecalvinism]

More fruitless discussion if you want to know what I believe watch this video. I believe God draws everyone, I also believe you are deemed a heretic even from an arminian standard seeing as you deny original sin (no total depravity) this is called pelegianism it has been deemed a heresy since Christianity arose.

[Churchwork]

More fruitless discussion if you want to know what I believe watch this video. I believe God draws everyone, I also believe you are deemed a heretic even from an arminian standard seeing as you deny original sin (no total depravity) this is called pelegianism it has been deemed a heresy since Christianity arose.

I believe in original sin as do all Arminians accepting the fallen nature. The fallen nature of mankind is not the same thing as Total depravity. Total depravity teaches that a person can't respond to the Gospel due to an alleged Total inability. Because you believe in Total depravity that makes you a pelagian denying the original sin, for original sin doesn't mean Total depravity. Calvinists don't believe in original sin, for original sin doesn't make you Totally depraved since God's grace is sufficient for all.

Atonement is not limited, but unlimited because Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, so that video is wrong which you said you agreed with which says atonement is limited.

God does predestinate by foreknowing our free-choice, but that video says God does not. In your profile you agreed God predestinates by foreknowing our free choice (answered "Yes"), so you contradict yourself again when you said you agreed with the video you posted.

Total depravity does mean Total inability, but that video says it does not mean Total inability. Recall you said before Total depravity does mean Total inability so you disagree with the video again. But you said you agreed with the video?

Limited atonement is mutually exclusive of unlimited atonement. Both cannot be true at the same time. The atonement from God's perspective is available to us all, and from our perspective anyone of us can be saved whosoever is willing.

It sounds to me like you are embarrassed by Calvinism but still unwilling to let go by holding onto the idol of Total depravity which is why these contradictions remain in your heart.

Your Total inability teaching is false.

[moderatecalvinism]

I dont believe it as they teach it either. This is clearly laid out in the video I provided

[Churchwork]

I dont believe it as they teach it either. This is clearly laid out in the video I provided

You said for the above video "if you want to know what I believe watch this video". I did. Now you are changing your mind and say you "don't believe it"?

Just know what you believe is false because Total depravity is a false. We are not Totally depraved, but made in God's image and given the grace to be able to respond. Amen.

[moderatecalvinism]

Can you show me how in the video I said I believe it as they do ? Strawman anyone?

I believe all are drawn, calvinist do not.

[Churchwork]

Can you show me how in the video I said I believe it as they do ? Strawman anyone?

I believe all are drawn, calvinist do not.

You said, "if you want to know what I believe watch this video." You're a doubletalker. Now you say you don't agree with that video. You call yourself a Calvinist but accuse calvinists yet still remain a Calvinist. You're accusing yourself so you should repent and receive God according to OSAS Arminian.

Moreover, since you agree God draws everyone, then nobody is Totally depraved, yet you still cling to this heresy and idolatry called Total depravity.

Total depravity is Total inability, so that is another contradiction on your part, for how can a person be Totally unable if God draws everyone, providing everyone sufficient grace?

[moderatecalvinism]

Not to be rude, but can you read ? I made the video, therefore I agree with it. Stop wasting my time and prove your strawman too be a real argument. This discussion is growing old, seeing as everything I say you do not understand. Your thing says discerning Spirits but you cannot even discern what the words on the page mean.

1. Either you cannot understand what you read or
2. You are twisting my words to make them say something they do not, which makes you a deceiver

[Churchwork]

Not to be rude, but can you read ? I made the video, therefore I agree with it. Stop wasting my time and prove your strawman too be a real argument. This discussion is growing old, seeing as everything I say you do not understand. Your thing says discerning Spirits but you cannot even discern what the words on the page mean.

1. Either you cannot understand what you read or
2. You are twisting my words to make them say something they do not, which makes you a deceiver

You said you "made the video, therefore" you "agree with it" and said, "know what I believe watch this video [post #6]", but after I dissected the video in [post #7] to show you its contradictions, then you said in post #8, you "don't believe it as they teach it. This is clearly laid out in the video I provided". First you provided the video in defense of Calvinism, then said you disagree with it, now you say you agree with it again. The evil spirit loves his doubletongue capabilities.

What you did was careless produce a Calvinist video for your defense, but when I examined it you had to admit you disagree with this video while at the same time you also say you agree with it. You're being deceitful and dishonest with your doubletongue.

There is no teaching of Total depravity in the Bible. You're not Totally unable. God has provided sufficient grace to be able to respond. To be regenerated, you will need to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. You are able to repent and believe in Christ because God has given you the grace to be able to do so; therefore, you are not Totally depraved. Get rid of this idol because it keeps you separated from God. God is not interested in your selfish version of salvation.

[moderatecalvinism]

Hmmm. I agree with what I said in the video. I dont agree with the way Calvinist teach total depravity. Do you not see the difference in the video between total depravity the way calvinist teach it and the way I taught it ? Two totally different things. Slow down and learn... Dont try to refute calvinist or moderate calvinist if you dont know what either of them believe. You cannot see the difference between the two doctrines because you have not studied either of them, therefore they look the same to you.

Total Depravity

Extreme Calvinism

Moderate Calvinism

Extreme Calvinism defines total depravity as total inability. They mean the elimination of all human ability to understand or respond to God. The effects of sin destroyed man's ability to accept God's gift of salvation. The human will is in bondage to sin and cannot respond to the call of God unto salvation. Fallen man is unable to choose the gift of salvation. The sinner is not a free agent because he is a slave to sin. Extreme Calvinism concludes that the non-elect are unable to repent and believe. Therefore God has to first regenerate man and give him faith before he can believe and be born again.

Moderate Calvinism maintains that man's depravity is “total.” Since the fall of Adam all men are born in sin with Adam's sin nature. There is no part of man's nature that was not affected by sin. Man is totally depraved, and unable to change his inherit sin nature. But total depravity does not mean total inability. Man's will is free to choose the gift of salvation. The basis or ground of human responsibility is human ability. Even though man does have a free will, he has no capacity for saving himself. God graciously draws people to Himself, but free will is the means by which salvation is received.

Please dont respond with more negligence