Re: http://www.youtube.com/user/herald1509
What are you worshiping though? God "so loved the world" He gave His Son not to just part of the world but "the world" - all of it and everything in it! So "the whosoever believeth" refers to those who receive this grace that was sufficient for all though many refuse God's love.Originally Posted by herald1509
The regeneration of the world (Matt. 19.28) and personal regeneration (Tit. 3.5) are both included in verse 17, and since God did not send His Son to "condemn the world" (e.g. preterition) His desire is not for a remnant, but that all "might be saved" not just some."For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" (John 3.17).
The world will be saved through the remnant that will be saved.
You are presupposing God can go beyond the boundary of righteousness to save someone, but since God is righteous, He can't bring someone to salvation unrighteously. So when God would "have all men be saved" He supplies sufficient grace to all in "the world" to give man the enabling choice. By so doing, nobody is Totally depraved (destroying T in TULIP), for everyone could freely obtain the gift of repentance and faith to be regenerated. That the god of Calvinism doesn't save everyone is a big problem because it is wrong to send someone to Hell providing them no opportunity to salvation when they were born that way. If such behavior is evil for humans and God's morals are higher than ours, then how can God hold to a lesser standard than us?"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Tim. 2.4-6).
God can desire salvation for all nations, and even all individuals, although He certainly isn't doing all in His power to accomplish this. He must want something more than universal salvation, otherwise He would do more, to save more people. His desire to save every individual, if it exists, cannot be His greatest desire.
Our nearest reference to "longsuffering to us-ward" and "not willing any should perish" is in verse 7 which reads, "ungodly people will perish" (NLT). So God is long-suffering (providing sufficient grace) "not willing that any perish." Since Christians can't perish because the Bible says "they shall never perish" (John 10.28), then God is being long-suffering for "the world" and for the Church's sake to come to maturity as well. There is no reason to make this just about the Church and not the salvation by the gospel for souls. The audience is the Church, but is not Peter allowed to speak about delivering the gospel through the Church to the world? Don't make this a mutually exclusive affair. Let the Word of God breathe. We will recall that God wishes no one to "perish but that all should reach repentance" because He "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Peter 3.9; 1 Tim. 2.4). You'll find in Scripture when something can go either way, it does go either way. For example, if you see verses for rapture near the end of the Tribulation and verses for rapture before the Tribulation, then it stands to reason instead of holding to the whole Church being raptured before the Tribulation or the end, that first rapture is according to readiness."The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3.9).
The word "any" refers to the "us-ward", and Peter's audience is the Church here, not the world.
There the emphasis is on for us and contrasting to the world. He not only died for us—for His sheep (John 10.15), He also died for the Church (Eph. 5.25), even for all (2 Cor. 5.14)—that is to say, for the whole world (1 John 2.2). Unfortunately the world does not believe in Him, so it forfeits salvation. "...for the sins of the whole world" is not merely saying "He is the only one through whom anyone in the world can have sins forgiven," but for the "sins of the whole world" literally which involves everybody. There is no person who ever lived the blood of Christ can't cover."And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2.2).
Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the world in the sense that He is the only one through whom anyone in the the world can have sins forgiven. Not everyone is forgiven of their sins; only believers are forgiven.
"He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world" (1 John 2.2). Christ is the propitiation for the unbelievers as well as for the believers. But again the meaning here is not substitution, but provision. The salvation of God has already been prepared. When you receive it you then will be reckoned by God as being one among the "many". Christ died on behalf of all men, since His death has made provision for all men; but it cannot be taken to mean a substitution in death for all men or some men. If anyone does not believe, he will perish. This is man’s responsibility before God.
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