Islam the Opposite

[Nottheworld]

I don't doubt the literature at the time, just like Mormons were under a cultural spell of various authors prior to the book of Mormon writing about how the Jews came to the Americas, so Joseph Smith fed off of that in creating the book of Mormon and plagiarizing from several sources.

So what I was thinking was that if Muhammad was addressing many people, he might not have meant the Jews specifically who obviously don't accept Jesus as the Christ, and therefore, it wouldn't be an internal contradiction.

But, since he can't be referring to the Jews, who else? He can't be addressing Christians because obviously Christians didn't kill Jesus. Christians love Jesus as the Christ, our Lord and Savior.

So it would seem strange not to refer to the Jews or the Christians, but to some other group of people. That's the internal contradiction. What was this other group of people at the time of the cross? Silly eh?

[PeteWaldo]

I don't doubt the literature at the time, just like Mormons were under a cultural spell of various authors prior to the book of Mormon writing about how the Jews came to the Americas, so Joseph Smith fed off of that in creating the book of Mormon and plagiarizing from several sources.

So what I was thinking was that if Muhammad was addressing many people, he might not have meant the Jews specifically who obviously don't accept Jesus as the Christ, and therefore, it wouldn't be an internal contradiction.

Mohammed was addressing Muslims, but any Muslim will tell you that those who "boasted" of killing Jesus of that verse, was a reference to Jews.
Unfortunately there is no shortage of Christians that believe Jews killed Jesus too, perhaps failing to recognize that it was the sinful nature of mankind that killed Jesus. That it was you and I that killed Jesus.

But, since he can't be referring to the Jews, who else? He can't be addressing Christians because obviously Christians didn't kill Jesus. Christians love Jesus as the Christ, our Lord and Savior.

So it would seem strange not to refer to the Jews or the Christians, but to some other group of people. That's the internal contradiction. What was this other group of people at the time of the cross? Silly eh?

[Nottheworld]

Of course he was talking to Muslims. He wasn't giving a seminar to Christians.

Try to understand what I am saying. The Jews don't call Jesus the Christ. You admitted this, so Muhammad was not referring to the Jews unless Muhammad made a mistake. Nor could Muhammad be referring to Christians, because Christians don't kill the Christ. So what other group could he be referring to? If there is no other group, it proves Muhammad has internally contradicted himself with his own material. So that is where the contradiction lies, not necessarily in merely saying the Jews killed their Jesus Christ. Christians have to be brought into the equation as well to fully show the internal contradiction by Muhammad.

Do you understand what I am saying?

[PeteWaldo]

Of course he was talking to Muslims. He wasn't giving a seminar to Christians.

Try to understand what I am saying. The Jews don't call Jesus the Christ. You admitted this, so Muhammad was not referring to the Jews unless Muhammad made a mistake.

That's the whole point. Mohammed did blunder over and over and over again. If a writer had written something like that verse in his book in Judaism or Christianity it wouldn't have been canonized for such a stunning internal error. Ask a Muslim. They will still tell you that is Jews that are referenced.

Nor could Muhammad be referring to Christians, because Christians don't kill the Christ. So what other group could he be referring to? If there is no other group, it proves Muhammad has internally contradicted himself with his own material.

Comically, partly because of Mohammed's untimely death, the Quran was left in such a mess that a whopping 71, out of only 114 suras, are subject to Abrogation. The Al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh (the abrogator and the abrogated) is the Arabic language book that details all of the abrogated verses, and what they have been abrogated by.

Even Mohammed had a tacit admission to what a mess he made of it

Surah 2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?

He even had to engage in damage control, knowing how he was being, and would continue to be perceived

Surah 16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

That's why when Muslims are in their Mecca mode (beginning to take over a country) you will hear the "no compulsion in religion" verses from waaayyy back in sura 2 and Mohammed's peaceful Mecca days. But when Muslims gain control they become the Medina style Muslims, with the verses that abrogate those from Mohammed's early years.

sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and one of their heads left on the steps of a Church. The note left behind reads: "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

So that is where the contradiction lies, not necessarily in merely saying the Jews killed their Jesus Christ. Christians have to be brought into the equation as well to fully show the internal contradiction by Muhammad.

Do you understand what I am saying?

I hope that answered to it.

[Churchwork]

They call it progressive revelation so it is open to any kind of changes their leaders want as they see fit. Sorta like atheism, their own progressive morality with no fixed reference point. It is just assumed they won't turn into Hitlers. So there is no consistent unchanging word of God for them like the Bible has a clear OT and a clear NT. There is no objective moral reference point like we have in Jesus.