Watchman Nee vs. John Calvin

[masta100]

By the way, it was on page 59 NOT 49. You're the one that is WRONG and I was right the first time. Go check it and realize that you make mistake brotha. Nobody is perfect right? =D

I think Watchman Nee believed that John Calvin was regenerated Plain and Simple.

I have 66 books on Watchman Nee and he was not "just mentioning some popular people in Christendom for specific aspects of their teaching." Nobodies teachings are PERFECT. No man can ever have the FULL knowledge of God. We all see the glass darkly.

You just tried to correct me and YOU absolutely believed that you were right. That's why you said "By the way, that was page 49, not page 59." you see....nobody is perfect. John Calvin believed what he believed and lived absolutely for God. So did Witness Lee. If they missed out on something or wrongly believed something then it was because of their lack of understanding not because of intently trying to teach false things.


What do you mean by "believe in Christ to be regenerated"??? Can you please explain this because I don't have a clear understanding of this.

[Churchwork]

I am looking at Church and the Work: Assembly Life (white cover, CFP, 1982). It's on page 49 not 59. Internet copies don't count for there are several different types, nor do versions of these materials from your cult count. CFP said they published their material first and LSM made copies afterward and changed the words around. Often they added 20-30% more words for commercial purposes.

Yes, based on OSAS Nee thought Calvin was saved, but he didn't agree with Calvin's 4 teachings (or even make comments about the false kind of OSAS in Calvinism) and did not consider this could be because he was unsaved which is the only possible explanation, since salvation is not by assuming regeneration that forces you to repent and believe. That would make God an evil tyrant. Where is true repentance and faith in that? Nee was also forgiving to gibberish babblers, but he denounced them in God's Work referring to their behavior as baby and kindergarten talk.

When Nee talks about Luther or Calvin, he of course rejects their way of salvation because Nee is OSAS Arminian, but when talking about these men he is only using them to favor OSAS rather than non-OSAS. Try to understand. Don't judge Nee for not realizing these men were unsaved. I don't. We should be judged by that which we know, not that which we don't know. There is not justification for holding onto a lie, a false salvation and making excuses for them and yourself by claiming you are seeing through the glass darkly. No! There is only one way to be saved which is to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. Stop fighting it. There is no other way given in Scripture.

Calvin came so close to God and so did Lee, I don't deny that, but sadly they did not enter the doorway of salvation. They "drew back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). So much grace was given yet they drew back. What great judgment and suffering they will have to endure in Hell for eternity! The punishment of those who were given so much yet still denied God's way of salvation will experience Hell in worse ways than someone who rejects God and never heard of Jesus Christ. Witness Lee worshiped the god of modalism, deification, screamers, suing Christians for faith, Total depravity and altering Nee's writings. Calvin believed in infant baptismal regeneration which was not his choice he alleges, amillennialism and adjudicating faith by the secular sword by killing many OSAS Arminians, Anabaptists and others. Believer's baptism is after new birth, not before. You may spend an eternity in Hell with these individuals, but I am glad I won't have to. Thank you Jesus! Though there can be some Calvinists who are unsure of their idea yet may be saved, most Calvinists are not born-again. It is their ideas that are so foreign to God's word and the Spirit of truth, you know they are not brothers and sisters in Christ. They may even truly believe what they teach, but they are still children of wrath.

Regeneration is new birth, born-again, given a new spirit and for the Holy Spirit to indwell. This is initial salvation. In order to be born-again, you must by the grace of God repent and believe. Whereas Calvinists tell you they never did, but simply assumed they were regenerated like the Aryan race under Hitler were born that way, and the Jews were born for the gas chambers. That's Calvinism. Hitler could not have achieved what he did if it was not for Calvinism. May you learn this fact one day not in your head, but in your spirit. That you ask me what does it mean to "believe in Christ to be regenerated?" tells me you are not saved in addition to all your contentions and poisoned spirit of dissension to try to self-exalt yourself in your disillusionment with things. That's why you defend unsaved men for you are like them. It's very liberal.

[masta100]

You know what, I'm a young christian that is seeking truth. I believe in God with all my heart. I am willing to to die for God right now. Although it's been only 2 and a half years into my Christian life, I can honestly say that I have grown and lived for Jesus everyday. But as far as understanding doctrines, teachings, and practice's one group (denominations) do, I don't understand. It's confusing. There is so many confusing aspect in a christian life right from the start (I'm talking about divisions).

One person can say "Come to my Church" oh " don't go to that Church" I don't know where to go. Some people say one thing while others say this. First of all, it's hard to even find genuine christians nowadays. If I do find some, they have their own belief about certain doctrines or practices. And I might come across another just as strong of a belief as the other brother or myself, but they say a totally different thing. Even you and Doug perry and Watchman Nee, John Calvin, Witness Lee, everybody has their own way of understanding things. I believe they all LOVE God just as much as I do. Right now, I'm looking for answers and seeking understanding. So rather you believe I'm going to hell, it's absolutely ridicious. ( How dare you say that I'm going to hell. You don't even know me. Quilt frankly, I think you use that phrase TOO MUCH and TOO LOOSELY, BE WARNED!!!) You thought I was defending Witness lee and Calvin, but you misunderstood. I'm not here to defend these people like WItness Lee or John Calvin. I was just trying to make a point and prove you wrong on two things. First, Watchman Nee believed that John Calvin WAS regenerated. 2ndly, that you were wrong about the page number. (YOu try to correct people ALL THE TIME, and that's your Problem). I read that book from your website on the internet and you tried to CORRECT me once again and BAM you realized that the page numbers are different when one reads it from a different resource. Nobody was wrong in this case. There is a lesson to be learned here. You tried to correct me when you could have just let it go without making a big deal about it. You see, you matter what you say, I know that Watchman Nee believed John Calvin was saved. Rather you don't agree with that has nothing to do with that fact.

I learned to turn away to Jesus. Although these people have differences, we all have one thing in common and that's believing in Jesus as Lord.

So, rather you're right or I'm right (even in regards to the page number 49 or 59) We should just try to understand each other. And that sometimes because of the different background, era, location, they can believe in something and believe it's SO RIGHT. Yet, they might not be "right". But One thing is God will Judge the heart and the intentions of their motives. Even the brothers mentioned above.