Quote Originally Posted by aldoivan16
Uh, again, you are giving me pure opinions. You did not tell me where my analysis was wrong. You did not even go through the text. You keep saying that

"We can easily conclude what God decided for Jacob and Esau was based on foreknowledge, because God provides sufficient grace for all to give everyone the choice even you. "

So this is what you affirm:" What God decided for Jacob and Esau was based on foreknowledge"

Your substantiation? "Because God provides sufficient grace for all to give everyone the choice, even you".

Where do you get that from? Romans 9:11-18 ? NO. You cannot find that God loves Esau because of God's Foreknowledge in that passage. You cannot find that. Tell me where you read that? where do you get that interpretation for? In fact, if you continue to read Romans 9, you will see that God prepares vessels for destruction, and vessels for glory. You just dont like that, because your will untouched, same old rebelious condition that man fell into. This logic, makes so much more sense than yours, AND, it has biblical foudations, not alike your Molinist view.

Listen pal, unless you prove from the text, from Scripture, and not twisting single verses that you think prove your point, that Molinism is valid, or Arminianism is valid, I will not go against what I can clearly see, ANDARE ABLE TO PROVE, from the text. All you have are traditions and opinions, no exegetical analysis provided that supports your view. Am I supposed to believe what you tell me because... thats what YOU believe? NO. Historically it has been Reformed Theology the core belief of Christians. You are just trying to make God more appealing to fill your church with false converts.

This is where I stand. I proved to you Unconditional Election with the Biblical analysis of Romans 9:11-18, All you did was quote for me single line verses without any context, without any analysis, and without any fundaments. I dont refuse to repent. I praise the Lord because He has enabled me to repent, and have faith through His Grace, something I could NOT do before since my will was a SLAVE, not a friend or just a bit submissive, but a SLAVE to sin. Salvation is ALL of the Lord, and NONE of human's "free" will.

If you are able to provide an intellectualy honest analysis of Romans 9:11-18, that contradicts my previous analysis, then we can continue to discuss, but until you do that, this discussion is nonsense, since all you do is spew your opinion and hopes of what you would like Scripture to mean.
Where your analysis is essentially wrong is Rom. 9 discloses certainly God foreknew Jacob and Esau, but doesn't say how. How? By foreknowing their free-choice and not irresistible coercion, the characteristic of an evil tyrant which is the god you worship, because man loves evil, so you worship an evil god even Satan. If you can find no verses for irresistible coercion then you are just reading into the text God made in your image.

Think of it this way. God has prepared for destruction the Calvinist. How? Why? Because you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. Who are you o man to fight this? Since you can still find no evidence in Romans 9 of irresistible grace rather than God affording them the choice and that is why God decided while they were still in the womb, then realize you worship Satan.

God enables anyone to repent whosoever is willing. He has not enabled you to repent, because you don't want to be saved His way. Your way is where you can think like you are Hitler's Aryan race and just caused to be that way where others like the Jews belong in the gas chamber. Don't you have a conscience to see how evil this is? Will God have to harden your heart further like He did to the Pharaoh until accept His way? A will that is enslaved is not a will that can't help an old lady across the street or accept what Jesus did on the cross for you. Do you see how you jump to the conclusion slavery means total depravity even though it doesn't. Salvation is all of the Lord, and not your will, but that doesn't mean God doesn't require your free-will choice to receive His free gift and offer of salvation. God does the saving. Your will does not do the saving, but your will made in God's image is the condition God sets forth for the saving.

All one needs to do is show that if Romans 9 can not conclude either way whether God saves irresistibly or provides the choice, then you you must look to other chapters. Scripture as a whole can show other verses where God doe provide the choice to disprove Calvinism, such as the 4000 cases of free will in Scripture. Do you see how illogical it is to assume into the text one way or another to render your conclusion while overlooking all the other verses which speak of free-will? You don't let evidence be your guide by the Spirit of Truth!

You're doing what all cults do. For example, Mormons make the Godhead multiple beings because of twisting God's 3 Persons in Scripture and can even rationalize it by saying "One" means One Godhead of many beings. He is no longer then a singular Triune personal God. But this approach is easily disprove when you realize there can only be one uncreated Creator not multiple uncreated beings. You would have to ask where do these others gods come from if there is more than one uncreated Creator? There is no basis for adding on gods. Likewise, in Calvinism, you assume into the text irresistible coercion in a chapter that doesn't specify one way or another, but there are tonnes of other chapters that speak on free-will, e.g. Jesus says, "come to me...you may take of the water of life freely." Pray on this. And may you come to Christ to be saved one day, God willing.

"They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God's special children. God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave his law to them. They have the privilege of worshiping him and receiving his wonderful promises...Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to the Jews? No, for not everyone born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew!" (Rom. 9.4,6) Why has God not failed? Because though all Israel is given sufficient grace and all should be saved, not all are saved because some refuse by their own free-will.

"So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Rom. 9.16). I think you are misunderstanding this verse. To willeth is like the new age approach if you just will it into being it will come to be. That is not the same thing is choosing. Runneth is certainly works, even hard works. So you can't work for it or will it into being, but that doesn't take away from the free-choice God has afforded you. Do you see? Read the Scriptures with the Spirit, not by the flesh. He hardened the heart of the Pharaoh because the Pharaoh hardened his own heart first. God chooses whom to enact His mercy and grace upon in this way though never takes away from providing sufficient grace for all.

You complain to God why has He made you this way that you have to choose? so you choose your own way and assume regeneration before repentance and faith. Choosing is not that hard. Just do it. God has given you the grace to be able to do so. Why are you not His people? Because you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. Like Israel, God has given you immense grace, but you still refuse to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive Him as your Lord and Savior.

"Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand on the seashore, only a small number will be saved...Well then, what shall we say about these things? Just this: The Gentiles have been made right with God by faith, even though they were not seeking him" (Rom. 9.27,30). Even though you are not seeking God of the Bible but the god of Calvinism, you too can be saved by faith through repentance if you are willing. "But the Jews, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded" (v.31).

You try to so hard to "persevere" because you don't know if you are saved since according to you it was not your choice in the law you make unto yourself "instead of depending on faith" (v.32); faith is a free gift you may receive from God (and obtain freely) if you come to Him with an honest heart. You have "stumbled over a great rock in their path" (v.32). That Rock is Jesus who you went right past Who died for the sins of the whole world even you. But if you were to "believe in Jesus you won't be disappointed" (v.33).