Quote Originally Posted by fotm1
I'm not a Calvinist. I have never saved anybody - that's up to God. You don't know enough about me to say the things you're saying that I believe.
If you don't believe in Total depravity then stop promoting Calvinists such as Paul Washer (his popular Shocking Video in your favorites). Or the Puritans when you said, "the books of the people that really did some harm to Satan are hard to find: the Puritans..." You mentioned "Smith Wigglesworth," but he is a gibberish babbler-Pentecostal. Quotes are taken from your video: What's wrong with Witness Lee. Lee taught Total depravity too. Your problem is you overlook the damage of false teaching all too often.

You make the claim they "had many of the pieces right." And, "most of the people I met, especially the people that were there early on are just so in love with God and sincere. And really want what's right and really believed they are onto something." Good intentions, they say, paves the way to Hell, behind which is just self. "There shall arise false Christs" (Matt. 24.24) that are worshipped.

I never said you saved anybody, but that you would have saved more than God would have as you seem to believe these individuals are all saved in this cult who are modalist, calvinist, deification screamers who sue for faith, particularly against Christians. Doesn't the phrase worship "false Christs" have any relevance to you? Didn't you ever suspect this might apply to them and yourself when you were with them for "7 years," engendering these false teachings, their idols, of their false god? "Because of false brethren unawares brought in" (Gal. 2.4).

There is nothing I have said about you that you have been able to show otherwise. I certainly would not want to misrepresent you. And if I have, I do apologize, but my conscience is presently clear.

Neither am I ecumenical or the other nonsense you try to obsessively pin on me to justify your own prideful use of a TITLE as a club to get your way and look big. I know that Paul and others said they were apostles, but they said it to people that already KNEW they were apostles, not as a club to force people to listen to them. There's a difference between admitting what you are when people already see and know it - and insisting that you are an authority to build yourself up.
You're quite ecumenical, for you would have Witness Lee be saved despite his several heretical teachings. To save him, naturally you would have to include a lot more from other cults also. Your words are just nonsense and obsessively trying to rationalize yourself with the aim ultimately to point to self and show your hostility towards the Apostles as we have seen time and again! This takes pride. It's like you are clubbing yourself with God's Apostles. Paul asked, "Am I not an Apostle?" (1 Cor. 9.1) Your response to Paul, using your words would be something like this: "You are just trying to get your way and look big Paul."

Don't assume everyone knows Paul is an Apostle. Peter, James and John were not convinced Paul was even saved when they first heard he gave his life to Christ. If Paul was speaking to you today I don't think you would accept his words when he said he is an "apostle to teach the Gentiles about faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2.7), many of who were not saved. Many believers would not even appreciate he was an Apostle so he pleaded with them as I do with you. So I appeal to you stop your hostility when I tell you that I am an Apostle who has a clear conscience in Christ when I tell you these things.

Paul is not trying to force himself upon you, nor am I, but we are telling you the plain truth. Your response shows your independency. The reason I am telling you that I am an Apostle is because you reject the Apostles. It is not for me, or to point to me, but to state a fact, Apostles exist today. They don't have to see Jesus to be an Apostle. Stop your jealousy towards the workers who are Apostles.

I know the difference between a Holy Spirit inspired rebuke and someone just popping off from their flesh - and a big test is how factual it is. And you're so wrong about the assumptions you're making that it's clear you are neither well-researched, nor are you hearing God. You are operating under revelation that has a self-serving twist to it or is flat-out manufactured. Be warned and repent.
So vague. Try to back up something you say. You're not adhering to your own standard.

I am NOT hostile to apostles - I'm just sure that I know far more of the true ones than you do. I'm sure you have quite a rolodex of wannabe apostles that agree with you, but you have created your own denomination based on your own interpretation of scripture and you are factious and divisive. You do not have any authority over the Church of Liberty, Missouri, nor do you have autocratic authority over ANY group.
"Wannabe"'s? You sound so negative, divisive and factious. Where did I say I have authority over a region of churches other than the one I am in, or have autocratic authority over some group or have shown any such behavior? I am glad you can't prove your accusations. You're simply showing your hostility towards an Apostle. You're not much use the body of Christ if you can't even accept the Apostles. Satan is hostile to the Apostles also with false accusations as he tries to club us.

Might I say too, your hostility extends towards Watchman Nee for I am of the same spirit in agreement among the Apostles that the Apostles ought to agree like Peter and Paul did, and where Apostles work regionally to appoint Elders of a locality. Don't throw around the word "denomination" in such a cavalier fashion. Try to back up your claim, otherwise your accusation is false. I think the verse that applies to you is the person who alleges factiously "I of Christ" (1 Cor. 1.12). Hence, all your videos on a pedestal, but you are an ex-cult member who still harbors several false teachings from them which you don't seem to be able to let go of.

We already know you are wrong about the Apostles because you create a false rule for them: "like have they seen Jesus." Almost all Apostles today have not seen Jesus. You should repent of your false teaching. You do sound jealous of the Apostles, trying to make a competition out of identifying Apostles when you said, "I'm just sure that I know far more of the true ones than you do." You're not even an Apostle yet are claiming some authority. I am an Apostle and you think you know better than an Apostle and are fighting with an Apostle. The questions presented here are the questions agreed upon by the Apostles, so your contention is against all Apostles. How is that productive of you? Ask yourself why you are so hostile to God's Apostles and why you need to be a stumbling block to the Work for the Church? Your self-exaltation centers on self!

If you believe that an apostle gets to boss people around and command authority, then you don't really understand the job at all. Apostles should be the least of these, the most humble, the most loving, the most gentle, the most long-suffering, the most peaceable, seeking the good, operating in love, leading the sheep by example, not by LAW and control. Your discernment is all wrong. You're mean, close-minded, factious and unteachable. All of the signs that you're under a delusion and your heart has been hardened and your love has grown cold. Be zealous and repent.

Doug
Why do you only accuse? Where did I say Apostles boss people around? Where have I ever done such a thing? Don't you think it is wrong to accuse of something by misrepresenting the person? How is that being loving and gentle? Your discernment is wrong and projecting your own condition: mean, close-minded, factious and unteachable. The very words you used describe yourself: delusional, a hardened heart, and your love grows cold. Repent of this characteristic nature of the Devil to accuse mindlessly and flagrantly without anything to support such an attitude. Repent.

You don't see me acting that way as I treat others for I would like to be treated. I don't accuse you of anything that you are not.

You don't recognize proper teaching, because your teaching is false. For example, in your Witness Lee video, you said "there is no Super-Apostle whose authority exceeds multiple towns. There's just not. The Pope is not in the Bible. That model, that leadership structure is not in the Bible." The Apostle is not a Super-Apostle. The Apostle has authority of multiple towns, for that is his region as a responsible worker. A Pope is a leader over a denomination that extends across the globe. That is not the same thing as an Apostle. You confuse the two terms. You have an improper understanding of the Apostles. I have read in the past the LSM-LC confused Apostles and Elders, so that might be part of your confusion.

You're a confused soul, doing way too many videos on the Internet and are not in control of yourself. I suggest you find proper grounding in Christ which will bring you to proper ecclesiology. Read Watchman Nee's 3 volume set: Church and the Work. And read, Assembling Together. These 4 books are the best books ever written in the history of the Church on the subject of proper ecclesiology. Realize that biblocality teaches that each Apostle is not to extend beyond his region of churches which is put in place biblically to avoid denominations, archdiocese of countries, continents and popery.

The reason you can't find harmony with the Apostles is because you lack humility. Pride and self-centeredness are your obsession. You're trying to make yourself out to be more than you are. And your approach to the Church is all wrong. Don't "do it yourself city restoration." A locality without appointed Elders is disorganized. True elders can never be formed under your system, for if you can't accept the Apostles today who appoint Elders of a locality, you're just acting independently and all is vanity with you! Differences and divisions are unavoidable, but as long as the regional Apostles and local Elders are abiding in consistent Work for the Church and in agreement everything else will come into place. May the Lord shed light upon your heart, your mentality is the source of the problem in the Church today on your self-appointed pulpit. You don't realize what you are doing wrong because you are still thinking in terms how a cult member of the Lord's Recovery of the Local Church thinks. Throw it all out and let it die on the cross.

Test the Apostles with the questions for Apostles. Whatever excuse you make up for rejecting the Apostles and accusing us, you're sinning bearing false witness in order to maintain that hostile and independent attitude. What use really can you be to God then? For you don't have a contrite heart. He is going to have to harden your heart further like He does with the Pharisee to break you down until one day you just might receive the Apostles even Christ.

My prayers go out to you.