The Pope is Going to Hell

[Churchwork]

I do not believe the Pope is born-again, because there are no Popes in the Bible. If he was a Christian he could never allow himself to be the leader of religious Rome warned about in Scripture, which makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (Rev. 14.8)-the Thyatira church period. I am convinced according to Scripture that he is going to Hell. The proof is as follows...

The Roman Church teaches that you can lose salvation after being born-again, but the Bible is very clear you cannot. For a person to think they can lose salvation shows me they don't have a regenerated spirit indwelt with God's life, the Holy Spirit, in knowing they have eternal life that can never be lost. How can that which is eternal lose its eternality? since salvation is not works, lest any man should boast; it is a free-gift. The Roman Church tries to control you falsely by works unto them, e.g. paying for indulgences and other such unbiblical antics. This is just men trying to control men and being abusive towards women, by disallowing them from being Apostles, Elders, Teachers, etc. But throwing women a bone by telling them Mary was without sin. Silly eh? It's amazing so many people can't see past this nonsense. Junias was a female, and she was an Apostle in Scripture. There is no requirement for being single if you are a priest. Various individuals who were workers for the Church in Scripture were married.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" (John 10.27-29).

Paul said, "I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (2 Tim. 1.12). We, too, have believed and know the One in whom we are eternally secure. We, too, are fully persuaded that "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ...according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Christ Jesus from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for us, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Pet. 1.3-5).

Plus, there are other verses to show the other false teachings of the Roman Church. For example. Rev. 20.3 says the nations won't be deceived in the 1000 years, but the nations are still deceived obviously, since they war. Therefore, amillennialism is false and Jesus is not reigning with a "rod of iron" now (mentioned 3 times in Revelation). Premillennialism and the Great Tribulation to come is the correct eschatological view then Christ steps down on the mount of olives to return in Person (Zech. 14.4, Acts 1.11, Rev. 1.7) to reign during the millennial kingdom with His overcomer believers (reward for believers who keep the word of His patience, are prayerful, watchful, keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7).

I could say many more things, but leave it at that. All that is born of the flesh is flesh, including Mary. You can find instances in Scripture where she was being selfish and sinned, so Christians reject the immaculate conception and a quaternity of sorts.

[theraptureisheresy]

The Bible does, however, use the term episcopos, which, if you know what "episcopate" means, refers to a Bishop. To use an example: "Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers (episcopous), in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood." (Acts 20:28). Historically, being "Pope" meant a certain type of Bishop with a "primacy of honor," and while the term may not be in the Bible -- is the word "Trinity" in the Bible?

Rev. 20:3 does not refer to Rome qua the Vatican. Revelation is either targeting the government at the time, or is of a prophetic nature that we as sinners are unable to understand in full -- and we certainly cannot interpret it outside of tradition. Furthermore, amillenialism was the position held by the Early Church; we have documents besides the Gospels, Epistles, etc. from the First Century, and I'm sure there would be a reference to such a thing, especially considering the fact that many believed the end was coming in their lifetimes.

Your interpretation is founded upon the Latin (Vulgate) translation, as there would be pre-millenial Rapture without the Vulgate, which was translated by a Western member of the Catholic (pre-schism) Church. Such a term is not used in the Greek. Indeed, the first time I believe it appeared in English in the Bible (i.e., the term "rapture") was in the 19th century.

Mary could not have been simply born tainted by original sin in the Western Tradition (Catholics AND Protestants included here), as Christ was not conceived in sin -- specifically the marital act, yes, but also could be construed as referring to the presence of Original Sin. You all are far more "Roman" than you think, as this is certainly not an opinion found in the East!

Immaculate Conception does not equate to a "quaternity," as if you know you Trinitiarian theology, the members of the Trinity are not "members of the Trinity" only insofar as they are "sinless." Rather, it is in accordance with right Christian teaching that such "persons" are fully God. Mary being born without the taint of Original Sin does not change her nature from that of a human being to that of God.

Oh, by the way, you're a heretic.

[Jack Newman]

A few quick points: First, under Catholic dogma there most certainly is a Pope in Scripture in the form of St. Peter; his ordination as such by Christ is in John 21:16-17, as foretold in Matthew 16:18-19. Now, you can debate this, but the fact is that for the earliest members of the Church, it was understood that apostolic succession was the ordained ecclesiology for Christians. For example, Irenaeus writes

"Since, however, it would be tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere."

To claim otherwise is, in effect, to reject traditional teachings, refined over centuries, for one's own discernment--certainly an option, but not the wisest one.

Secondly, even if your theology is right on every point, it still doesn't prove that this Pope, or any of them, is going to hell--what's the Biblical proof that genuine error in matters of theology leads to damnation? And please don't cite Rev 22:18-19, because adding, in one's exegesis of Revelations, a rather spurious, Johnny-come-lately doctrine (rapture), certainly falls afoul of that passage

Finally, if we accept Original Sin--and I'm with you on that one--then the unique nature of Christ dictates that Mary must have been sinless. This is because the beauty and the mystery of Christ is that He was the Word made Flesh--that God truly became man in all aspects but that of sin--He was born of the flesh (see for example Romans 8:3). Unless we are to say that Christ had sin, we must instead hold that the flesh that bore Him was likewise free of original sin. Thus, the Immaculate Conception follows of necessity.

The early church believed in chiliasm, this is another word for premillennialism. Those are the earliest quotes. Amillennialism came along centuries later.

The highest order of worker is the Apostle which extends regionally, not popishly. There is no pope of the world in God's kingdom. Your idolatry is destroying you.

Revelation 20.3 says the nations won't be deceived in the 1000 years. Obviously they are still deceived because they war and you hear rumours of wars. Hence, amillennialism is a lie from that old serpent and men's flesh gorge in it. Consequently you get weird teachings like your popes and priests can't be married, so they have sex with little boys and girls and don't get punished for it. Crazy is as crazy does!

The Roman Church view God had sex with Mary must mean Mary had to be sinless is ridiculous. God can enter His creation as He wishes and still not be stained by sin. It does not require God produce a goddess idol to make it happen. Most people in religious Rome are going to Hell because they don't know the One True God like and my brothers and sisters in Christ do.

Obviously you're not born-again. That means you are going to Hell. You've already decided it seems.

[Churchwork]

Being an Apostle is not the same thing as a Pope, nor is there Apostolic succession such that the Apostles appoint the next Apostle. Rather, an Apostle is someone who is directly commissioned by God to set up the churches and appoint the Elders of those church localities.

Irenaeus is wrong when he said "every Church should agree with this Church [speaking of the church of Rome]" if he means by this that Rome is the center and not Israel. Consider this setting the seeds of the heresy brought in by making Peter the Rock when it is Jesus who is the Rock. Peter is the rock, not the Rock. That's what the Bible says in Matthew 16. The Church is founded on the Rock with the help of a rock.

The reason why the Pope is going to Hell is because he is not saved by grace through faith once-saved-always-saved. His various false teachings reflect that fact. The Bible says there is only one way to be saved and he prefers another.

Why do you hate the rapture so much? (1 Thess. 4.15-17) How else do saints come "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven if not by rapture?

All that is born of the flesh, the Bible says, is flesh. Mary's parents were of the flesh, so she was too. It is then only God who can be born sinless. Mary can't do that. The Eastern Orthodox Church also rejects the Roman Church view.

The Bible says Jesus was not born of the flesh but the "likeness" of the flesh. Read Romans 8.3 again.

The immaculate conception therefore is a heresy of the greatest magnitude. It's ironic that in your profile you agree with the first question essential for salvation but admit, speaking of yourself, "According to the Bible I am going to Hell." Yet you try to defend religious Rome's heresies.

The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

[OrthodoxChristian]

Are you God? Nope. You aren't. So you have absolutely no authority to say who is going to hell.

[Churchwork]

It is not by my authority as an Apostle that I say all the Popes are going to Hell, but by the word of God, since the Pope is the leader of the great harlot (Rev. 17) that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (14.8). God told me all the Popes are going to Hell since there is no Popes in God's word and because, obviously, the Pope has refused to give his life to the God who keeps, for those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). The Pope wants to be saved by works, since he claims a Roman Catholic can lose salvation and still go to Hell. No man is saved by works, lest anyone should boast. That would be a weird kind of salvation if you could get saved, lose it, get it back, to lose it again. God simply won't save you to begin with.

[OrthodoxChristian]

The Pope wants to be saved by works, since he claims a Roman Catholic can lose salvation and still go to Hell. No man is saved by works, lest anyone should boast. That would be a weird kind of salvation if you could get saved, lose it, get it back, to lose it again. God simply won't save you to begin with.

That's all fine and dandy but the Catholics don't believe in salvation by works. Nor do the Orthodox. Both churches believe in having an active faith. Ie, you don't just get dunked under water, say a prayer, and BOOM, you're saved so you can go and live your life however you want.

[Churchwork]

That's all fine and dandy but the Catholics don't believe in salvation by works. Nor do the Orthodox. Both churches believe in having an active faith. Ie, you don't just get dunked under water, say a prayer, and BOOM, you're saved so you can go and live your life however you want.

Catholics don't realize that they do believe in salvation by works or self-strength since they claim they can keep themselves saved, since they claim they can lose salvation. Whereas someone who is actually a Christian can't lose salvation even if he is faithless; for God is faithful even when we are faithless. God will restore his faith, renew it, and strengthen it based on the initial relationship promise. He will never turn His back on a person who is born-again. God promises to keep those who genuinely enter into a relationship with Him and not accept Satan's counterfeit.

If you claim to have gotten saved then go on a murder and rape spree, then clearly you were never born-again to begin with. You received Satan's counterfeit.

There are consequences for Christians even though we can't lose eternal life. A carnal Christian will not be raptured at the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) before the Tribulation starts, but must pass through the time of testing. Nor will a carnal or fleshly Christian get to return with Christ to reign over the nations during the 1000 years on earth (Rev. 2.26, 20.4; Jude 14,15). That's a long time to be in "outer darkness" outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years. After the 1000 years rewards are done away with in the New City and New Earth.

[AlertStatusRed]

Catholics don't realize that they do believe in salvation by works or self-strength since they claim they can keep themselves saved, since they claim they can lose salvation. Whereas someone who is actually a Christian can't lose salvation even if he is faithless; for God is faithful even when we are faithless. God will restore his faith, renew it, and strengthen it based on the initial relationship promise. He will never turn His back on a person who is born-again. God promises to keep those who genuinely enter into a relationship with Him and not accept Satan's counterfeit.

If you claim to have gotten saved then go on a murder and rape spree, then clearly you were never born-again to begin with. You received Satan's counterfeit.

There are consequences for Christians even though we can't lose eternal life. A carnal Christian will not be raptured at the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) before the Tribulation starts, but must pass through the time of testing. Nor will a carnal or fleshly Christian get to return with Christ to reign over the nations during the 1000 years on earth (Rev. 2.26, 20.4; Jude 14,15). That's a long time to be in "outer darkness" outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years. After the 1000 years rewards are done away with in the New City and New Earth.

We can lose salvation by leaving Jesus (Hebrews 10:28-29, 2 Peter 2:22). Our free will is related to our salvation when we are saved and during this period. Not only when we choose Christ. Likewise, There is no such thing as the Rapture, this is Man-Made theology which has no place in the Christian life. Furthermore, if you were prepared to understand the Scriptures, you would see that Kephas is the Kephas which Christ built his Church upon. To translate, Peter is the Rock which Christ built his Church upon. To ignore this in Scripture, and to ignore the many Christians who have spoken of this and who believed it (St. Augustine, etc.) is to support your own man-made doctrines. This is the bad fruit of Schism. You follow the way of Korah (Jude 11). As Christians, we are to remain in the Lord's Kindness. You are correct when you say that it is our response to God (in your previous posts and messages on websites) however, this is not a one time event. Our salvation is either accepted or rejected by us through our actions. However, the source of our salvation is not from within us, but from Christ and his Sacrifice. Please do not spread any more heresy, it is rather tiring to refute these simple matters. The Pope is going to Heaven, providing he is in a State of Grace. Which I have no doubt that he is. Peace be with you.

[Churchwork]

Heb. 10.28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

When I read this verse it tells me the person was never saved to begin with, for what Christian would do this?

2 Pet. 2.21 It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. 22 They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.” And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

This verse tells me this person came up to the door of salvation but did not enter in. Again, he was never saved to begin with.

Our salvation is such that we give our lives to the God who keeps, for we can't keep ourselves saved, so God keeps His promise and keeps us saved. This is the Christ we gave our lives to. Those who are born-again, therefore, "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). When God gives eternal life it is eternal. Once-saved-always-saved.

People want a selfish salvation where they can get saved and lose it tomorrow if they wish. God will not save you selfishly. You will have to genuinely give your life to Him, otherwise, you will die in your sins.

If there is no rapture, then how do the saints meet the Lord in the air or come "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven? The only way is by being raptured.

The rock which the Church is built on is not Peter but the Rock Christ Jesus: not the little Peter stone, but the large corner stone which is Jesus.

The Holy Spirit told me Augustine was never born-again. He was an amillennial Calvinist so he worshiped a false Christ. He claims he was irresistibly selected. God never irresistibly imposes regeneration on anyone but gives us the choice. God is big enough to be do that.

As many Christians have said that would be a strange kind of salvation if you could be born-again, lose it, get born-again again, lose it again, and then get born-again again again. God is no fool! He is no reincarnationist. He simply won't save you the first time. Not until you are willing to come to the cross as a helpless sinner and receive the Lord Jesus as Savior to KEEP YOU, only then will He regenerate you and KEEP YOU so that you will never perish. Only then! Not before! God looks through eternity and foreknows your free-choice whether you genuinely receive Him or not. Just as you can only be physically born once, you can only be born-again once. Once you remain physically born once, you remain physically born forever (you will get a physical body at resurrection); likewise, when you are spiritually born once, you remain spiritually born forever. Amen!

The Pope will never give his life to Christ. He is going to Hell. I am not aware of anyone that old who ended up giving their lives to Christ.