Atheists are Dull-minded

[InTruth]

No... Time doesn't really cause anything. That's like saying space is a root cause. Things happen inside space and time. They don't cause things to happen at all.

Look at it this way: Effects happen inside space and time to particles because of causes.

Yes time and space are causal, for without time you could not exist. Same with space. The body is formed from the dust or particles of space just like the Bible says (Gen. 2.7). All the necessary ingredients are needed. No space, matter and time, then no you.

Look at it this way: for effects to happen in space and time to particles you need space and time. The atheist is always wrong because he always shuts his mind down, short of the glory of God.

You claim that micro organisms consuming, reproducing and excreting on a certain food type isn't that much different than a carbon-14 atom spontaneously emitting ionizing particles that transform it into a nitrogen-14 atom? What kind of nonsense are you selling here?

They're just particles? What are you talking about? Cars and Planets are just particles, does that make them "not so different" too? Bears and Chainsaws are just particles too, does that make them "not so different" also?

I can't believe I started this discussion thinking you had some capability of intelligent thought.

It is all taking place on a molecular level. I can't believe you don't realize that? What nonsense are you selling thinking otherwise? All things in nature have these building blocks: and all exhibit cause and effect. It is inescapable and undeniable. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you come back to reality.

Well your suspicions would be wrong and your proof isn't very lucid or demonstrable at all. In truth, I have no problem with religious people, I used to be very religious myself and most of my friends are too religious. I gave up religion because no one I could not find any reason why I believed a god existed and no one could provide me with one either. What I do have a problem with is people that devalue others because of their own beliefs, like you do. You spontaneously assumed that I didn't consider murder, rape and crime as bad and said that atheists are connected to nature in a vile disgusting way, you have prejudices against people because of their thoughts and because of your own fears, this kind of anti-social repugnant behavior is disgusting to me and I know many Christians that would dislike you for your baseless ideals.

I don't think the reason you are not religious is because you can't find a reason, since I have given you a reason which you could not overturn, so the reason must be your heart condition. You want to be eternally separated from God and so you will be. I think my reason is quite clear and demonstrable because all that we are talking about has been proven and all you can do is bear false witness instead.

I don't devalue you. You are made in God's image just like I am, but then after that we part ways because you want to spend eternity in Hell like someone who commits a crime and must spend the rest of their life in jail, knowing that jail is the consequence. When you bear false witness against others, you are devaluing them. That's abusive behavior. You're like Satan the great accuser when you do that.

What matters is what can be proven. You could not prove your accusations, but I proved you are going to Hell. If proof matters then really you are just projecting your own conditions onto others by accusing them falsely. The reason you don't give your life to Christ is because you are afraid to let go of self and place your trust in Jesus. It is more painful for you to give up control of self for God's guiding light than for you to spend eternity in Hell. That's the choice you have made for yourself. From the sin of rejecting God all sorts of sins follow. So you become anti-social; and murder, rape and crime are fair game if they aid in your natural selection myopic radar. These are all obviously baseless ideals of yours, all the result of your hostility to your Creator, like a person who rejects their parents for no good reason at all. What love is that?

I would love to receive salvation from him, but I know so little about him.

That's an invalid excuse for the Bible has been set before you all your life. All you need is right there. God is not going to smack you over the head with it. You got to pick it up and read it. God loves relating to us as sovereign free willed beings.

Your delusions are getting worse by the second, I didn't say that at all. The fact that your brain isn't capable of realising how rape, murder and crime happening to people around me works against my survival, demonstrates that no debate can open your eyes to true salvation.

But for naturalism if you murder someone and nobody finds out about it to pocket 10 million dollars so can start building your empire, why in naturalism is that not a good thing for you? Who is to say that is not valid since there are no objective moral values in atheism!

Avoid it? I gave you evidence that nature does not show that everything has a cause and effect. Radioactive decay has no known cause, to make a claim that everything has a cause means that everything has been shown to have a cause, we do not know if everything needs a cause. For example, what are the causes of electromagnetism, strong nuclear force and weak nuclear force?

Everything has not been shown to have a cause-effect relationship, this is a false premise!

Also, infinite regress only applies to real-time that we experience. At a quantum level time itself breaks down. It has no beginning nor end.

Just because we don't know the cause to something, it would be highly arrogant and presumptuous to assume that it has no cause just because you are not smart enough to figure it out. For you to prove your beliefs are not delusional, you would have to actually prove something comes from nothing, that which has no space, time, matter, energy, antimatter, etc. Not sure how you would do that though. You would have to be able to replicate it. Since you have failed to do so, realize you are on the road to perdition and will burn in the lake of fire for all eternity.

We don't need to be all-knowing like God would be to know the universe always needs a cause, for once you see there are trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence for something coming from nothing, you can be confident nature always needs a cause. We can be assured that all the variables and constants of the universe need a cause in such fine tuning.

You're contradicting yourself, because you demand to be God to know if God exists, but are you God? You'll never be God. You're like the Devil who erects himself as God. Think how pretentious it would be if you knew everything except for one last thing but held out that it could somehow disprove God and prove something comes from nothing. Does that not strike you as false humility to the most ridiculous level possible?

Infinite regress necessarily must exist if naturalism was true, for all things in nature need a cause even your imaginary admittedly unproven imaginary time. At the quantum level cause and effect never break down; there is both beginning and end. Since you can't show otherwise, realize you are living a lie.

Now you're just fabricating information. Here's a list of Atheist crimes.

Mao Zedong 20,000,000 - 43,000,000
Stalin - Holodomor Famine - 2,500,000 - 10,000,000
Pol Pot - Genocide - 1,700,000 - 2,500,000
Nuon Chea - Famine -1,700,000 - 3,000,000

Those numbers are a fraction of the published numbers. And even if it was only this few, how does that make it right? Your argument is because you are less murderous than perceived other murderers that makes you good?

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Adolf Hitler

Obviously he fashioned God in his own image. Lots of people do this. Surely you can see that. Maybe not. And time and again he rejected Jesus and Christianity in his quotes. So there you have it. Like that article said, you are a holocaust revisionist. You might want to reconsider how evil that is.

Hitler was likely Christian, so I'll include him in the Christian section with question marks, here we go:

Crusades - War - 1,000,000 - 2,000,000
French War of Religion - 2,000,000 - 4,000,000
Thirty Years War - 3,000,000 - 11,500,000
Napoleonic Wars - 3,500,000 - 6,500,000
World War I - 15,000,000 - 65,000,000
Genocide of Hitler - 4,500,000 - 11,000,000 ????
Colonisation of Americas - 2,000,000 - 10,000,000
African Slave Trade - 3,500,000 - 4,000,000
Swedish Deluge - 3,000,000 - 4,000,000
Rwandan Genocide - 500,000 - 1,000,000
German Expulsian WWII - 500,000 - 3,000,000
Belgian Exploitation of the Congo -8,000,000 - 10,000,000

What makes you think these were Christians for where would Jesus do that? So you see you can be like the Devil and accuse the brethren day and night (Rev. 12.10), but just like Satan you can't prove it. You concede your atheist brethren above were murderers; I do no such thing with members of the body of Christ. It's like night and day by comparison.

The amount of death, torture and belligerence involved in Christian history is appalling, what Mao Zedong and Stalin did was atrocious, possibly the worst form of neglect or perhaps heinous political planning, but it does not compare to the appalling behavior of Christians over the last Millenium, who were very ready to physically kill millions of others relentlessly and given enough reason they would even kill each other.

I am glad they weren't Christians just because you say they are. Thank God the universe does not resolve around what you say. Since the Bible says they are not Christians, then what gives you the right to redefine what the Bible says? Seems disingenuous.

Interesting, considering that Hitler eventually spoke against the Catholic Church when it went against his political aims. He must have been a true Christian.

Careful with your quotes there, many of Hitler's quotes are actually fabricated.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...er-a-christian

To be honest, he was probably neither, but there is enough evidence to say that he was.

Speaking against the Catholic church automatically makes you a Christian? You got weird ideas. Since Hitler spoke against Jesus and the body of Christ, that is why he is not a Christian. You're not too bright are you?

Think for yourself. If someone at one time called themselves Christian and at another time denounces Jesus and the Church then that person is just talking out the side of his face. Barack Obama does this. He denounces Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Matthew, yet he calls himself a Christian. He speaks for Muslims defending their faith as a holy and righteous faith. And so likewise with Hitler, in all those quotes I gave you of him speaking against Jesus and the body of Christ, you know the guy was just playing the political field and likely too exhausted to keep putting up the act, so just blurted out what he really believed that he was effectively an atheist like you and antichrist, engaged in natural selection as the only real truth.

Yeah, you've been saying this for a while, I'm starting to seriously think that maybe you really believe it.

Amen. How can heaven's standards be less than our own?

The eye witness accounts are attested for in the books of Bukhari and Sahih Muslim dating back to the 7th and 8th centuries, they contain in themselves countless testimonies from people who saw the moon split with their own eyes and come back together.

And from the point of view that there was no rocket technology to confirm it. You have to understand that rocket technology can't confirm that the moon is broken in half and flying away from each other and then coming back together any more than the actual light reflecting off the moon will.

Furthermore, there was no one around to test Jesus's cranial nerve reflexes to see if he had really died or not. You shouldn't apply something to another religion that you don't apply to yours.

Name the individuals who saw Muhammad split the moon like we have for the Bible who saw Jesus alive from the dead. Is it not proven the moon never split since it is not split now? And surely something so far away hardly compares to Jesus up close and personal. Even if there was multiple testimony of moon spitting, surely that is just an illusion. If they believed it, so what? If they didn't lie, what it does say is they truly believed it, maybe even died for it, since they would not willingly die for what they knew was a lie. Likewise the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead, but no naturalistic explanation can account for their testimony. But we can account for moon splitting as just an illusion which occurs with objects in the far off distance. I personally would get far more excited seeing a person alive from the dead than seeing the effects of clouds and light and other natural effects upon the moon.

We would have some trace of the moon split in half today, even if it reconstituted itself, but we don't, so you can be silly if you like, but if the best argument you have is silliness, then what does that say of your faith? It's all a big joke.

John places himself with the 3 Mary's at the cross in the book of John. Since he lived long after this writing was produced and he never recanted the testimony, then it is true. You don't even need anyone at the cross. For think about it. If Jesus presents himself to the disciples as resurrected from the grave, he would be a liar, but Islam says he was a great prophet. And a Roman crucifixion is not something you just make up. It is well established. Think. If Jesus is going around and claiming he was risen from the grave, obviously he was put to death on the cross. Or if the disciples were saying our Messiah has died on the cross by Roman crucifixion but now is alive from the dead for we have been with Him, you would think someone would say, they didn't recall any crucifixion of Jesus? What are you talking about, people would say? Pilate would come forth and say, such claims are false, that he never put a person names Jesus, King of the Jews, to death. Instead, the Jews argued someone stole the body from the empty tomb; nobody was contesting the death of Jesus on the cross. They were making excuses for what happened to the body to try to invalidate the appearances to the disciples.

So in conclusion it is readily apparent the atheist always shuts his mind down at some point to reality, which makes him look goofy.

[Yrost]

I see you've mastered keeping up your delusion, so I'll keep this brief.

Ridiculous, space and time are not causes, they are dimensions. Needing is not causing.

Infantile, that All things take place on a molecular level is plain wrong. Atoms are not molecules.

You deceiver, you have given me no reason to be religious, you have simply repeated the same rant continuously without understanding anything about what your claims mean, which is why you can't understand how I've continuously destroyed it.

You liar, you said "I consider you vile, horrid and disgusting" and now you're saying "I don't devalue you.". No wonder the bible has so many contradictions if it's followers can't be consistent.

Childish nonsense, saying "I proved", "proof" and "proved" doesn't prove anything, even though you think it does.

How ignorant, I've never had a bible set before me my whole life.

You understand nothing, you're saying that the only reason why people shouldn't kill people is because someone will see you. If you think this way, I can't help you.

Are you illiterate? there is no such thing as nothing.

You are in denial, Christians have killed millions throughout the ages. There is no argument against this.

You're too funny, Hitler was a Christian. Whether he denounced it later is up for question, but many supposed quotes of him denouncing Christianity are fraudulent or unproven, however we know he was Christian at one stage during his life and even praised it and likened his killing of the Jews to it.
Hitler was one of your buddies. This is what your religion does to people.

There were many people that saw the splitting of the Moon from Muhammed, but the main narrators are as follows:

Anas bin Malik

Abdullah ibn Abbas

Ibn Masud

This is much more amazing than Jesus, because clearly the moon is so much larger and no naturalistic explanation can account for the moon splitting in half and flying far away from itself and then coming back together as one. This is more amazing than someone that could have nearly died and then simply recovered. The people that witnessed these events fought with their lives for Muhammed, because they knew he was the true prophet of god come to correct what the phony disciples of Jesus that forsook him to the cross had told lies about later to gain fame and reputation from what he did in his life.

Muhammed is the true prophet of god!

[InTruth]

Of course space, time and nature need a cause for they just can't come into being from nothing. That which doesn't exist can't produce anything. How contrary to the evidence we have of trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing. These dimensions can't always have existed, because if they did there would be infinite regress, but we know that to be impossible, because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. So clearly you are delusional.

Everything you say is so dumb. How do you bear it? Molecules are made of atoms. To disagree with that is just asinine. Now if I don't respond to some vagaries in your accusing, just realize it is because vague accusations are worth nothing. Suffice it to say though you still can't overturn the proof why the universe can't always have existed and why it can't come from nothing, thus proving you are delusional.

Of course I consider you vile and disgusting, for you are made in God's image and yet throw it all away for eternity in Hell. You defile yourself and blame me for your choice? You can't ask me to respect that about you. You are valued to God, for He wants to spend eternity with you, but you reject Him. I would be happy to spend eternity with you if you receive God's redemptive design, but not if you don't, for why would I want to hang around someone as delusional as you claiming God does not exist when He would be standing right in front of you in the New City.

The proof is given over and over and over. Here it is again,

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/4stepproof.htm

Sure you have had a Bible accessible to you your whole life. It's the freest book in the world and most accessible book too.

In naturalism I still don't see why you don't kill people to get ahead in life since you have no objective moral values. Animals kill animals in nature so why shouldn't you if it gets you ahead?

That's right, there is no such thing as "nothing" so your imaginary "nothing" can't produce anything and thus, the universe can't come from "nothing".

I don't know of a single Christian who murdered anyone. You weren't able to cite any either. You would have to show where Jesus did that or would do that. So you are just like the Devil sinning bearing false witness. God hates that sin, he places it right up there next to murder.

Since the Bible teaches once-saved-always-saved, then if Hitler every denounced Christianity he was never a Christian to begin with. The Bible says the Jews are our little brother, so Christians don't attack Jews. You're delusional. Hitler is just like you, he walked like a duck and sounded like a duck, for naturalism, killing Jews and whoever else he thought was in his way. And Catholics aren't even Christians, in case you thought he was Catholic.

10th October, 1941, midday Hitler's Table Talk (Adolf Hitler, London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1953).

• "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...d-Jesus-Christ

See, you and Hitler are close buddies since you think alike. It's amazing how you delude yourself. Crazy is as crazy does.

Sorry but couldn't find the word "moon" in any of your links for eyewitness testimonies of the spitting on the moon illusion. Up close and personal is always better then far off distances since the latter are subject to illusion playing tricks on one's eyes.

Fortunately with the aid of science we know the moon never split centuries ago so that invalidates Islam. I can't find one scientist in the world who makes that claim, so clearly you are delusional. But all you really needed to know was six centuries later the Koran says Jesus didn't die on the cross or even go to the cross, without any evidence to support their claim. Historians simply don't do history that way. That is completely delusional.

People don't willingly die for what they know is a lie, so we know the disciples truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead. Since you can't account for this with some naturalistic explanation, then realize you are delusional. Hope this helps.

[Yrost]

Okay child, let's take this one step at a time shall we.

You claim there are trillions and trillions of causes, but science tells us that there are only 4. According to your claim, you should be able to give me at least ten.

You don't know of a single Christian that ever murdered someone. Are you saying that there has never been any Christian nation throughout all history, no Christian king or leader or just very few? Is Christianity, the smallest religion in the world according to you?

The links I gave you weren't about their testimonies of the moon splitting, their testimonies were written in the books of Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. I can link you to those if you want. It's amazing, the miracle that Muhammed made for us to know that he was indeed a prophet of god and that the Christians had been lying about Jesus all along. It's so much easier to pay a bunch of Romans to fake your death than it is to split the moon.

Besides with the aid of science we now know that people can't really die and come back to life, that's just stupid. Brain death is irreversible, so this invalidates the Bible. I can't find one scientist that makes this claim so clearly you are delusional. I mean all you need to know is that the Bible claims that Jesus was the son of god with no evidence to support their claim. Historians don't do history that way. That is completely delusional.

People don't willingly die for what they know is a lie, so we know the companions of Muhammed truly believed they had seen the splitting of the moon. Since you can't account for this with some naturalistic explanation, then realise you are delusional. Hope this helps.

On a side note:

The book you quoted Hitler's Table talk is poorly translated from French instead of the German original. Any English rendering of the text is completely unreliable. The criticism of Hitler in the book were directed at Catholicism, not Christianity in general.

[InTruth]

No need to be condescending by calling people "child" you exalt yourself over because you are frustrated your theories are not working out.

In Hugh Ross' book, he gives something like 800 variables and constants necessary for life. But I don't deny they may all adhere to your 4 laws. I'm not referring to causation specifically in either sense, but in a personal way, when you drive your car, one of the causes is it needs gas, and so on and so on, so everyone can know the proof for God.

That's correct, I have never known a Christian to kill someone in cold blooded murder.

Sure go ahead, after all you are making the claim there were several eyewitness testimonies to moon spitting, so you should be able to come up with their testimonies. Remember though, that is not enough because we can account for it by a naturalistic explanation such as illusion like thousands of people seeing Mary off in the distance due to lighting, clouds and other natural phenomenon. Muhammad was so desperate for a miracle, jealous of Jesus. Today, scientifically, we know the moon was never split anyway, so this proves Islam to be from Satan.

Again, the problem you are faced with is people don't willingly die for a lie, so the disciples didn't lie but truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings, so they are the only ones who would be motivated to pay the Romans off, though not sure where they would get their money from. It is not possible anyway, because they died for their testimony. People just don't willingly let themselves die for what they know is a lie when they could have saved their lives. The disciples knew they would eventually go to their deaths as martyrs for Christ as Jesus predicted. Where did Jesus go for those 40 days since according to Islam, he never died? He would have been part of the lie giving the impression he was resurrected, but then how is that a great prophet? You see nothing you say makes any sense at all, because you are delusional and hellbound.

People can't die and come back to life naturally. That is stupid, just as stupid as saying Jesus came back to life naturally when Jesus never claimed to nor the disciples claimed that is what happened. Since Jesus is God, He resurrected supernaturally. You're not too bright are you? Surely, God who created this universe and Hades below, could traverse these domains no problem. He is omnipresent. He can be both above and below simultaneously. That's what God can do because He is outside of time and space (remember before we proved the uncreated Creator outside of time and space). Accepting this is the beginning of humility.

Since you have been unable to overturn the Minimal Facts Approach for the resurrection of Jesus proving He is God, realize you are delusional by still refusing the Lord Jesus as your Savior. Jesus said if you are not for Him, you are against Him. Therefore, you will surely go to Hell as Jesus said since you are unwilling to confess Him as your Lord and Savior to others, He will deny you before the Father in heaven. This reflects the kind of person you are. Grotesque and vile!

If people really testified to seeing Muhammad split the moon (still waiting on that information from you) and they willingly died for it, doesn't make it true, because it can qualify as an illusion, whereas the appearances to the disciples' cannot since Jesus was up close and personal, not thousands of miles away to get a glimpse of. Jesus was seen multiple times in multiple settings with multiple different individuals each time. Now people can die for lies. Obviously then if there were Muslims who died for the lie of spitting on the moon, since science shows the moon was not spit on to break it in two, they were clearly delusional.

You would have to show there is another more feasible interpretation that radically differs with what Hitler said. Until then you are just blowing smoke. Hitler said Christianity. He meant Christianity over and over. Where he said Catholicism, he meant Catholicism, for example, in one famous chant, the Hitler youth would shout, "I'm not a Christian, nor a Catholic, I go with the SA[tan] through thin and thick." A Christian wouldn't make the mistake of mingling Catholicism and Christianity though Hitler may have, further showing his unsalvation. Either way he was not a Christian for would Jesus do that? Think how dumb you sound. Someone with a dumb argument really exposes the fraudulent nature of his conduct. How you get from Jesus who never hurt a flea to one of the greatest mass murderers of history is quite funny. Do you realize you are leading people away from atheism, Islam and Catholicism with your dumbness? Praise the Lord God uses your evil for good!

14th December, 1941, midday "Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120) Hitler's Table Talk (Adolf Hitler, London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1953). If Hitler meant only Catholicism and not Christianity he wouldn't have said "The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation...." Since Paul is central to God's word, this is a direct attack on 1 Corinthians 15, Galatians 1 & 2. There is no way around it. You and Hitler are in bed together as evil personified.

Since you and Hitler think alike, you and Hitler will go to Hell for all eternity. More quotes,
http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...d-Jesus-Christ

[Yrost]

I'm not being condescending, you have a child-like inconsistent mind. I can't help this. Only you pull yourself out of the abyss.

Firstly, ask yourself this: Why does a car need gas?

Also you contradict yourself, you believe in a fantastical world where a guy in the sky is going to take you and put you in a happy place and all the people you dislike will go to a bad place. Which is different than what we observer over here in the real world where all people die and go into the ground.

A long time ago a bunch of people made up this crazy story about a Jew in Palestine that could walk on water (which science shows is impossible) and that he died and came back to life, but we now know that the minds at that time were too primitive to even understand what life and death was and easily duped into believing things. That being said, there are people today that are still easily fooled and continue to be fooled by this 2000 year old story from the bronze age.

With the disciples it's difficult to determine whether they were actual people or if they were based on people or they thought they could get famous by telling stories and failed or if the whole thing was a hoax invented by the church later to garner more followers. In real history it's difficult to determine anything about anyone and when it gets religious a lot of lies get mixed in with truths until it's hard to tell what happened at all.

But the burden of proof is not on me to prove what happened. It's on the claimants. You claim they existed, what proof do you have? Anyone can write a book, writings do not prove anything.


I don't believe Jesus was a great prophet, I believe he was phony, just like Muhammed. I'm simply making the same arguments for Islam as you're making for Christianity. They both apply very well.

Some Hitler quotes:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)




Their sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily bread of future generations will grow.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Note: "Their sword will become our plow" appears to paraphrase Micah 4:3 about beating swords into ploughshares, but his tears of war more resembles Joel 3:9-10 "Beat your plowshares into swords."

I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

I thank Heaven that a portion of the memories of those days still remains with me. Woods and meadows were the battlefields on which the 'conflicts' which exist everywhere in life were decided.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Only a handful of Germans in the Reich had the slightest conception of the eternal and merciless struggle for the German language, German schools, and a German way of life. Only today, when the same deplorable misery is forced on many millions of Germans from the Reich, who under foreign rule dream of their common fatherland and strive, amid their longing, at least to preserve their holy right to their mother tongue, do wider circles understand what it means to be forced to fight for one's nationality.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

[InTruth]

I'm not being condescending, you have a child-like inconsistent mind. I can't help this. Only you pull yourself out of the abyss.

Sure you are being condescending since you accuse but don't back it up with evidence.

You contradict yourself, you believe in a fantastical world where a guy in the sky is going to take you and put you in a happy place and all the people you dislike will go to a bad place. Which is different than what we observer over here in the real world where all people die and go into the ground.

The proof is given which you couldn't overturn. I like evidence. By the way heaven and earth come together on the new earth. The New City is actually a physical city. And God is not in the sky, but outside of time and space as the proof was given to you over and over. You want to be eternally separated from God, so naturally you will go to that place of eternal separation devoid of God. Christians believe when people die their bodies go into the ground, but our souls and spirits are saved, just like when you turn off your computer, the 1's and 0's, bios or operating system (spirit) which can later be restored and the software kicks in (soul). How much easier for God to do this! You're not too bright are you?

A long time ago a bunch of people made up this crazy story about a Jew in Palestine that could walk on water (which science shows is impossible) and that he died and came back to life, but we now know that the minds at that time were too primitive to even understand what life and death was and easily duped into believing things. That being said, there are people today that are still easily fooled and continue to be fooled by this 2000 year old story from the bronze age.

We don't say Jesus walked on water naturally, but supernaturally of course. Sure people knew what life and death was. Not sure how a person gets duped into seeing the person alive after they died. Still waiting on that explanation from you. It looks like you are fooled because you believe Jesus never resurrected even though you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs. Guess you are not too bright.

With the disciples it's difficult to determine whether they were actual people or if they were based on people or they thought they could get famous by telling stories and failed or if the whole thing was a hoax invented by the church later to garner more followers. In real history it's difficult to determine anything about anyone and when it gets religious a lot of lies get mixed in with truths until it's hard to tell what happened at all.

Historians don't vague out like you do. They can glean some facts from most historical documents. We have Polycarp and Clement of Rome who said they knew Peter and John. We have Papias who knew those who knew the disciples personally. And we have Paul who said he spent 15 days with Peter. He also spent time with John and James. To think these are not real people after this multiply corroborating testimony seems quite odd to say the least, after all, Jesus is the most well documented person in antiquity. Nobody even compares, so really you are just not being honest with yourself. Watch a little William Lane Craig vs. Bart Erhman if you know what's good for you.

But the burden of proof is not on me to prove what happened. It's on the claimants. You claim they existed, what proof do you have? Anyone can write a book, writings do not prove anything.

We have 27 books of the New Testament and a total of 45 ancient sources about Jesus within 150 years after his death, 17 of which are non-Christian. In none of those sources do we find anything about the disciples or Jesus not being real people, so if you are going to deny the life of the disciples and Jesus you are going to have to throw out all of history. Historians simply don't do history that way, so you are just shutting your mind down. Open your Bible and start reading from beginning to end. That would be a good first step in the right direction in coming to God with an honest heart. He says if you search Him out with all your heart and soul you shall surely find Him. Obviously you are too selfish to do so, so far. My prayers go out to you.

[Yrost]

You've provided no proof at all. I overturned your claim of "trillions of trillions of causes", science tells us there are only 4 causes and Nitrogen-14 atoms spontaneously form from Carbon-14 atoms. No cause. Your claim is false.

We can't tell if the Papias, Paul, Clement or Polycarp were completely honest people. We don't know if they were fooled or led to believe these things. What we do know is that people do invent Myths and people do believe these myths and that these myths are often based on real events and mixed with folklore. This is apparent in legends and history from all over the world. Historians have great difficulty in determining myth from history, because we can't even tell if the people that supposedly wrote their stories did write them or if it was someone else that wrote it and put it in their name. We can't even tell these things about people in modern history, especially with sightings of Elvis, Bigfoot, UFOs and sayings attributed to Einstein that are completely unproven. In the Chronicles of Japan, which details the founder of the country and past leaders and kings that ruled over the country, it often relates that their kings had supernatural powers and abilities. This is normal in history....

But you don't understand history.

[InTruth]

Science tells us there are more than 4 causes, since the 4 causes you give don't explain how the universe could always have existed. Therefore, what necessarily follows an infinite regress would mean you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. Assuming atoms have no cause despite the trillions of causes in nature seems quite disingenuous for that which does not exist can't cause anything. Think how arrogant you are just because you are not smart enough to figure out the cause, so you assume it has no cause. That would be like saying $5 appeared on the ground from nothing because you can't see how it got there. Dumb. I feel the pride of the Devil in you, for he is just as arrogant. I am glad I don't have to spend eternity in the New City with such a pompous mindset as God would never allow such evil hearts in His presence or to harm His elect.

We know the disciples truly believed in what they were doing because they willingly died for their claims. Was Paul fooled by Peter when he spent 15 days with him and Peter told him he saw Jesus alive from the dead with James, John and the other disciples? But how could have Peter lied about this since he died for his testimony. You have no answer.

We know the accounts of the disciples was not a myth since Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity. Legend theory doesn't work because not enough time passed for legend to develop. Within 5 years after the cross, Paul spent 15 days with Peter, and with James. Those first churches were built on the resurrection, so how do you legend that up?

We really do know Paul wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2. For all the epistles we know these 3 chapters were his central message flowing through to all the other epistles. The other epistles wouldn't make much sense in him setting up all the churches if they were not grounded in these 3 chapters.

The person who wrote Revelation, 1,2,3 John and John have some phrases that are common to just John. We know Mark wrote Mark who worked closely with Peter. And Luke certainly wrote Luke, for he said Acts was part two of his former work. He made no mention of Paul's death which is important to mention in a biography. Paul died around 65 AD, so that places Acts around 55 AD. Luke can be placed around 45 AD yet still. And since Luke took from Mark, that places Mark around 35 AD just two years after the cross.

Nobody cares enough about Elvis to go check his grave and with so many Elvis impersonators the odds, again, are stacked against you. Bigfoot could have been a large man with hair all over his body, since this is a rare medical condition. UFO's are explained by natural phenomena like aircraft, weather balloons, even secret government aircraft like hovering disks that I have seen on Youtube. They are always seen at a distance too, never up close and personal so that is hardly convincing. If you watch some amazing magic tricks, when they show you how they are done, it is embarrassing how obvious it is. They are just using lighting. They black out light when they want a person to move from one spot to the next, then bring that lighting back on. Other times they have mirrors or pictures to make it appear as if something is there when behind the scenes they are moving around from one box to the next. Twins are used a lot too. There are just too many things to produce illusions between the UFO and the person observing far off in the distance.

Hope that helps.

[Yrost]

Science can only demonstrate what we see and know, we can't teach what we don't see. We are always learning. However, saying that there are trillions of causes is not what we see. It is a lie.

I didn't say Elvis was alive. I'm saying that it can seem that way to some people, just like it seems to you that the disciples existed, but it could simply have some other explanation, like lies or impersonations.

How do we know that the new testament is not an amazing work of fiction that people took too seriously?