You got no evidence. We do have evidence. The evidence is there are trillions and trillions of causes in nature. This is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and no hard evidence for something coming from nothing.
You can assert anything you like, but if you can't prove it or at least provide some evidence, you're just blowing smoke-- certainly, a foretaste of your eternity in Hell.
Member
There aren't trillions of causes in nature? Essentially everything comes down to simple mathematics and elementary particles.
Furthermore, radioactive decay is evidence of a causeless event. It occurs without any collision with other objects and is completely spontaneous. There is no way to predict or know when any single atom will decay.
You're asking me if, "There aren't trillions of causes in nature?" I already said "The evidence is there are trillions and trillions of causes in nature. This is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and no hard evidence for something coming from nothing."
Mathematically elementary particles cause one to the next. Two particles collide to form a new particle. A DNA strand drops off that deactivates a switch so some new physical quality is formed or changed. The apple falls because of gravity when it is released. Cause and effect are everywhere. All the constants of nature need a cause, so do all the variables of nature. Every particle needs an explanation. How silly to shut your mind down for the evil spirit and say no explanation is needed all to reject that which is outside of nature that must be the cause since nature can't always have existed.
Radioactive decay decays like bread left out on a table decays. The particles dissipate and is according to the strength of those particles to hold together. Nature works to produce a half-life. Nothing is truly spontaneous: there is always cause and effect. We may not be smart enough to know some things now, but doesn't mean we will never be able to discover any more cause and effects in nature.
I don't see scientists closing up shop, not trying to understand these phenomena more, so they don't agree with you something comes from nothing. How arrogant and presumptuous to think because you don't know the cause for some things that therefore there can't be a cause to them which flies in the face of trillions and trillions of causes in nature. Do you see how mindless you sound? Do you really think God would want to spend eternity with such a belligerent person? Of course not.
Did people say the earth was flat because they could find no other cause? That's what you are doing. You're committing the fallacy of argument from ignorance, special pleading, false dichotomy and appeal to authority, because clearly another option was the earth could be round even though we could not see the cause for this other option It was quite viable. The Bible teaches the earth is round, by a ship merchant looking across the horizon of the ocean and seeing curvature, how objects in the distance dropping off due the curvature of the earth.
In your profile you contradicted yourself. You said of yourself, "I don't have any particular beliefs." You have been stating your beliefs in this thread and when you say you don't have any particular beliefs, that's a belief. That's what you believe. You're not being intellectually honest with yourself. What the Holy Spirit is showing me about you is that you are trying to devoid yourself of responsibility and accountability, but no sin goes unpunished even for eternity like the greatest sin of all of rejecting your Creator. He shows you that you want to be eternity separated from Him, so as you wish, He sends you to Lake of Fire for all eternity. Obviously, you are a bad person.
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Interesting InTruth ^^
I'm curious though, if you say that we should not stop trying to find the causes for things when we don't know what they are, do you think we should stop trying to find the cause for the universe because we don't know what that is either?How arrogant and presumptuous to think because you don't know the cause for some things that therefore there can't be a cause to them which flies in the face of trillions and trillions of causes in nature.
Furthermore, stop saying that there are millions and trillions of causes in nature, there aren't. There are only 4 known causes for everything.
Food decays for organic reasons, which are completely unrelated to radioactive decay. The fact that you can't tell the difference between biology and physics is amusing to me, that being said, when you say that we may simply not know the cause of radio-active decay, this is true. We may not. There may very well be a cause that we do not know about, but current science is not developed enough to say what causes it and our current understanding of everything involved demonstrates that it isn't caused by anything. So according to science, it is causeless, this may change in the future, but so might anything else.Radioactive decay decays like bread left out on a table decays. The particles dissipate and is according to the strength of those particles to hold together. Nature works to produce a half-life. Nothing is truly spontaneous: there is always cause and effect. We may not be smart enough to know some things now, but doesn't mean we will never be able to discover any more cause and effects in nature.
However, as science does not demonstrate that there are causes for everything, saying that there are causes for everything is an assumption.
Well, to understand what I said you have to not ignore what the word "particular" means. Of course I have beliefs, but none that are particular, meaning none that are special to me. What I mean by this is that anything I believe can change at an instant given the correct logic and reasoning to do so. I'm not sure what your holy spirit has to do with that....?In your profile you contradicted yourself. You said of yourself, "I don't have any particular beliefs." You have been stating your beliefs in this thread and when you say you don't have any particular beliefs, that's a belief. That's what you believe. You're not being intellectually honest with yourself. What the Holy Spirit is showing me about you is that you are trying to devoid yourself of responsibility and accountability, but no sin goes unpunished even for eternity like the greatest sin of all of rejecting your Creator. He shows you that you want to be eternity separated from Him, so as you wish, He sends you to Lake of Fire for all eternity. Obviously, you are a bad person.
We do know what the cause for the universe is, it is the uncreated Creator because if there was an infinite regress, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. It is illogical to seek for the cause for the universe outside the uncreated Creator when it is proven no such thing exists. That which is uncreated, timeless, spaceless, immaterial and supernatural has no cause.Originally Posted by Yrost
We know there are quadrillions and quadrillions of cause and effects in nature. I was born because my parents had sex. You argue against God because you prefer to spend eternity with the Devil. Deep down inside that is what you want. I like that comment by the Merovingian in the Matrix who said, "there is only one true reality [in nature], cause and effect," and his wife said "cause and effect my love, cause and effect" when she caught him cheating on her.
Food decays for molecular reasons, same as radioactive decay. Biology is subject to molecules also. That you think biology is not is weird. Our current understanding of everything demonstrates that radioactive decay like other forms of decay have a cause because we observe trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence something happens all by itself. Science disagrees with your fanciful something from nothing theory. No, things don't change. 1+1 always equals 2 and nature always exhibits cause and effect, action and reaction; it's really the universe's only one true constant. That which doesn't exist can't cause anything. It doesn't exist. A billion pound gorilla can't take you to cinema because he doesn't exist. Energy is needed to cause; all matter can be converted to energy. There is no energy or matter in "nothing."Food decays for organic reasons, which are completely unrelated to radioactive decay. The fact that you can't tell the difference between biology and physics is amusing to me, that being said, when you say that we may simply not know the cause of radio-active decay, this is true. We may not. There may very well be a cause that we do not know about, but current science is not developed enough to say what causes it and our current understanding of everything involved demonstrates that it isn't caused by anything. So according to science, it is causeless, this may change in the future, but so might anything else.
However, as science does not demonstrate that there are causes for everything, saying that there are causes for everything is an assumption.
Your idol of no God is special to you, but you will go to Hell for your hostility to your Creator. A particle doesn't exist for no reason at all. It is made up quarks and strings possibly. It exists for a purpose for the Grand Designer. How goofy to think it exists and comes into being from nothing. Do you see this idol from nothing theory of yours is absolutely absurd? I can really feel how you are shutting your mind down like a zombie for Satan, to be controlled by the Devil. The universe is as large as it is to produce the full elemental table.Well, to understand what I said you have to not ignore what the word "particular" means. Of course I have beliefs, but none that are particular, meaning none that are special to me. What I mean by this is that anything I believe can change at an instant given the correct logic and reasoning to do so. I'm not sure what your holy spirit has to do with that....?
The Holy Spirit is the live of the Father and the Son, who reveals God's mind and will. Praise the Lord! The Holy Spirit reveals you are going to Hell, and may those who read this turn from their ways, seeing you can't overturn the proof, and not end up like you. Praise the Lord, you are leading people to Christ. Amen.
Member
Why do you say there are quadrillions of causes and effects in nature, there are only 4 known causes for everything. Electromagnetism, Strong Nuclear Force, Weak Nuclear Force and Gravity. Where do you get the quadrillions from?We do know what the cause for the universe is, it is the uncreated Creator because if there was an infinite regress, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. It is illogical to seek for the cause for the universe outside the uncreated Creator when it is proven no such thing exists. That which is uncreated, timeless, spaceless, immaterial and supernatural has no cause.
We know there are quadrillions and quadrillions of cause and effects in nature. I was born because my parents had sex. You argue against God because you prefer to spend eternity with the Devil. Deep down inside that is what you want. I like that comment by the Merovingian in the Matrix who said, "there is only one true reality [in nature], cause and effect," and his wife said "cause and effect my love, cause and effect" when she caught him cheating on her.
Molecules are just particles, saying "food decays for particle reasons" doesn't mean anything. Food decays because microorganisms grow on it and eat it. Radioactive decay does not occur because life grows on atoms and eats them, radioactive decay occurs where there is no life. The assumption that microorganisms cause radioactive decay is actually pretty funny, but this is what you are saying when saying that food decays for the same reasons as radioactive decay. Do you have any understanding of science at all?Food decays for molecular reasons, same as radioactive decay. Biology is subject to molecules also. That you think biology is not is weird. Our current understanding of everything demonstrates that radioactive decay like other forms of decay have a cause because we observe trillions and trillions of causes in nature, and no hard evidence something happens all by itself. Science disagrees with your fanciful something from nothing theory. No, things don't change. 1+1 always equals 2 and nature always exhibits cause and effect, action and reaction; it's really the universe's only one true constant. That which doesn't exist can't cause anything. It doesn't exist. A billion pound gorilla can't take you to cinema because he doesn't exist. Energy is needed to cause; all matter can be converted to energy. There is no energy or matter in "nothing."
Again we do not observe trillions of effects in nature, we observe the following simple things, electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force and gravity.
You'll want to avoid chastising me for not believing the same things you do with punishments of hell. It's tons of times easier for me to ridicule you for your beliefs, but I want this to remain civil. If you can't make your argument without threats, that does your argument a huge disservice.Your idol of no God is special to you, but you will go to Hell for your hostility to your Creator. A particle doesn't exist for no reason at all. It is made up quarks and strings possibly. It exists for a purpose for the Grand Designer. How goofy to think it exists and comes into being from nothing. Do you see this idol from nothing theory of yours is absolutely absurd? I can really feel how you are shutting your mind down like a zombie for Satan, to be controlled by the Devil. The universe is as large as it is to produce the full elemental table.
The Holy Spirit is the live of the Father and the Son, who reveals God's mind and will. Praise the Lord! The Holy Spirit reveals you are going to Hell, and may those who read this turn from their ways, seeing you can't overturn the proof, and not end up like you. Praise the Lord, you are leading people to Christ. Amen.
As a naturalist, I value people because of how they treat and value other people, not because of how much their thoughts are similar to mine, which theism generally teaches. Naturalism gives us a real reason to be connected with the universe because we are a part of the natural universe and not supernatural entities that require supernatural creation. If you consider those dissimilar to you as vile, horrid and disgusting, then I value you as vile horrid and disgusting.
It is unfortunate that when you die, which you will, you will never be able to realise how infinitesimally insignificant your entire life was and is further sad to know that your current existence is based on gratifying yourself with notions of your own importance instead of serving to improve the conditions of life for all.
I know none of these words will penetrate the wall of theology you have built up to protect yourself from true salvation because you know that when you die a 2000 year old Jew from Palestine will take care of you, but I'm curious as to what you think your response will be if it is not your favourite Jew, but Allah, Vishnu or Ahura Mazda that judge you instead? But you will not be able to answer that question.
Each of these are exhibited in action going back in time in cause and effect.
Life or no life, particles act and react. I don't recall saying microorganisms causes radioactive decay. That's funny you think I said that. Science is not sinning bearing false witness. We indeed do so trillions and trillions of causes in nature abiding in these various laws.Molecules are just particles, saying "food decays for particle reasons" doesn't mean anything. Food decays because microorganisms grow on it and eat it. Radioactive decay does not occur because life grows on atoms and eats them, radioactive decay occurs where there is no life. The assumption that microorganisms cause radioactive decay is actually pretty funny, but this is what you are saying when saying that food decays for the same reasons as radioactive decay. Do you have any understanding of science at all?
Again we do not observe trillions of effects in nature, we observe the following simple things, electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force and gravity.
Since the uncreated Creator is proven and who He is in Christ and you couldn't overturn it, necessarily you will go to Hell, because you refuse God's love and mercy. If you shut your mind down to this evidence, how is that civil? I would be threatened too if I couldn't overturn the evidence and just shut my mind down to it, with the resulting consequence.You'll want to avoid chastising me for not believing the same things you do with punishments of hell. It's tons of times easier for me to ridicule you for your beliefs, but I want this to remain civil. If you can't make your argument without threats, that does your argument a huge disservice.
As a naturalist, I value people because of how they treat and value other people, not because of how much their thoughts are similar to mine, which theism generally teaches. Naturalism gives us a real reason to be connected with the universe because we are a part of the natural universe and not supernatural entities that require supernatural creation. If you consider those dissimilar to you as vile, horrid and disgusting, then I value you as vile horrid and disgusting.
It is unfortunate that when you die, which you will, you will never be able to realise how infinitesimally insignificant your entire life was and is further sad to know that your current existence is based on gratifying yourself with notions of your own importance instead of serving to improve the conditions of life for all.
I know none of these words will penetrate the wall of theology you have built up to protect yourself from true salvation because you know that when you die a 2000 year old Jew from Palestine will take care of you, but I'm curious as to what you think your response will be if it is not your favourite Jew, but Allah, Vishnu or Ahura Mazda that judge you instead? But you will not be able to answer that question.
I don't think you value people because of the way you treat people, for if they have faith in God you don't appreciate that even though God is proven to exist and wants a relationship with us. But if they never mention God that's what you value because you are hostile to your Creator and desire that in others. And that belief is similar to your own. As long as people behave like you and think like you, everything is ok. Your doubletongue is hard at work I see, not treating others as you would like to be treated.
While you don't consider murder, rape and crime vile, horrid and disgusting, you can see why I consider you vile, horrid and disgusting. Christians consider nature parture of God's design and integral to it, so we are part of it and to take care of it. Atheists are connected to nature in another way, a vile, horrid and disgusting way, because nature is just natural selection, so who is to say killing someone is wrong if in improves your natural selection? What you consider being connected we consider just a sinner's heart that binds itself to Hell since you want an existence without God.
It is unfortunate that you don't see with God you value life and don't debase it by considering it insignificant. By considering it insignificant and meaningless you contradict yourself by claiming you want to improve life for all. Gratifying oneself flows from an insignificant life, for what does it really matter since everyone just ceases to exist anyway. Perhaps that's why atheists have the highest suicide rates and killed the most people in wars, e.g. Stalin, Pol pot, Mao, and Hitler who was effectively behaving according to naturalism even though he may have claimed to be a theist.
Fortunately though, there is accountability and consequences so that what is not paid for in this life gets paid for in the next. In this life you want to be eternally separated from God. So you will be for forever as you wish. Pretending you will cease to exist is escapism. You may have great success in this life with your naturalism, but is it really worth it since you will spend eternity in Hell?
Hypotheticals are silly when it comes to impossibles. Since the resurrection is proven and there is no evidence for your other gods, how are they even in the running to worry about? There is substantial evidence against them. For example, Allah of Islam proves to be a lie six centuries later, claiming Jesus didn't die on the cross or even go to the cross, with no evidence to support such a claim. Do you really want to trust a faith built on just asserting with no evidence and nothing to overturn all the evidence that we do have?
Member
Why should we regress forward if we know that these are the root causes and therefore the actual cause?Each of these are exhibited in action going back in time in cause and effect.
There are no demonstrable reactions involved in radioactive decay.Life or no life, particles act and react. I don't recall saying microorganisms causes radioactive decay. That's funny you think I said that. Science is not sinning bearing false witness. We indeed do so trillions and trillions of causes in nature abiding in these various laws.
You said radioactive decay decays like bread decays. Bread decays as life grows on it and eats it. How is this like radioactive decay?
You can continue chanting your trillions and trillions of causes mantra like a child if you want, but this simply is not the case.
Wow... That's a nice body of text. A few questions:Since the uncreated Creator is proven and who He is in Christ and you couldn't overturn it, necessarily you will go to Hell, because you refuse God's love and mercy. If you shut your mind down to this evidence, how is that civil? I would be threatened too if I couldn't overturn the evidence and just shut my mind down to it, with the resulting consequence.
I don't think you value people because of the way you treat people, for if they have faith in God you don't appreciate that even though God is proven to exist and wants a relationship with us. But if they never mention God that's what you value because you are hostile to your Creator and desire that in others. And that belief is similar to your own. As long as people behave like you and think like you, everything is ok. Your doubletongue is hard at work I see, not treating others as you would like to be treated.
While you don't consider murder, rape and crime vile, horrid and disgusting, you can see why I consider you vile, horrid and disgusting. Christians consider nature parture of God's design and integral to it, so we are part of it and to take care of it. Atheists are connected to nature in another way, a vile, horrid and disgusting way, because nature is just natural selection, so who is to say killing someone is wrong if in improves your natural selection? What you consider being connected we consider just a sinner's heart that binds itself to Hell since you want an existence without God.
It is unfortunate that you don't see with God you value life and don't debase it by considering it insignificant. By considering it insignificant and meaningless you contradict yourself by claiming you want to improve life for all. Gratifying oneself flows from an insignificant life, for what does it really matter since everyone just ceases to exist anyway. Perhaps that's why atheists have the highest suicide rates and killed the most people in wars, e.g. Stalin, Pol pot, Mao, and Hitler who was effectively behaving according to naturalism even though he may have claimed to be a theist.
Fortunately though, there is accountability and consequences so that what is not paid for in this life gets paid for in the next. In this life you want to be eternally separated from God. So you will be for forever as you wish. Pretending you will cease to exist is escapism. You may have great success in this life with your naturalism, but is it really worth it since you will spend eternity in Hell?
Hypotheticals are silly when it comes to impossibles. Since the resurrection is proven and there is no evidence for your other gods, how are they even in the running to worry about? There is substantial evidence against them. For example, Allah of Islam proves to be a lie six centuries later, claiming Jesus didn't die on the cross or even go to the cross, with no evidence to support such a claim. Do you really want to trust a faith built on just asserting with no evidence and nothing to overturn all the evidence that we do have?
1) Why do you think I don't appreciate that people have faith in god? What proof do you have of this?
2) Why do you think I am hostile to my alleged creator?
3) What suggests that I don't consider murder rape and crime vile?
4) You obsessively claim that your god's existence is proven, but fail to explain how. How is god's existence proven?
Some things I want to correct you on too:
1) Religious people have killed the most amounts of people in wars not Atheists. If you study history, you'll find that most of the people killed by Mao Zedong and Stalin were not due to war, but due to famine. Whether intentional or not, the amount of deaths caused by their actions does not compare to amount of people killed by religious people in the 20th century.
2) Hitler wrote that he was effectively behaving according to God's will. He was baptized by the catholic church and they never excommunicated him. Nor did he denounce it.
3) There is absolutely no reason to believe in accountability or consequences after death even if there is a god.
4) Muhammed split the moon in half to demonstrate that he was a prophet of god and performed miracles in his life time which have many testimonies to back them up. The Quran says that Jesus was not killed or crucified, but it was made to seem that way. The gospel of Barnabus backs this up also. Muslims use the bible to support their claims.
Regress forward? Regress means backward. Time is a root cause, for without time, you couldn't have come into being in time. But time can't always have existed because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so.
I don't know if scientists know the cause of radioactive decay fully or partially. Decaying organically is not so different than decaying non-organically. They are still just particles. It simply is the case we can if we wish recount one causal relationship after another and come up with quadrillions of them since the beginning of time and no evidence for something coming from nothing. It would seem quite illogical then to insert something from nothing all because you reject God. We go with the evidence. Try it some time. It's very liberating. The truth will set you free.There are no demonstrable reactions involved in radioactive decay. You said radioactive decay decays like bread decays. Bread decays as life grows on it and eats it. How is this like radioactive decay? You can continue chanting your trillions and trillions of causes mantra like a child if you want, but this simply is not the case.
I would suspect one reason is because we know you are going to Hell and you may not like us knowing this about you. The proof I have that you don't appreciate those who have faith in God is because you narrowly define what you appreciate which in a conversation like this you certainly should have included those who have faith. As long as we don't talk about God, you can tolerate us.1) Why do you think I don't appreciate that people have faith in god? What proof do you have of this?
Because you don't want to receive salvation from Him, that much is clear.2) Why do you think I am hostile to my alleged creator?
You said you don't take issue with those who differ from you. I presume you are not a murderer, rapist or criminal.3) What suggests that I don't consider murder rape and crime vile?
And you being a naturalist there is no reason why murder, rape and crime are not acceptable since these may very well aid in your natural selection.
You obsessively avoid the proof for God, so what can I do but repeat the very simple proof for God we all know intuitively.4) You obsessively claim that your god's existence is proven, but fail to explain how. How is god's existence proven?
I have already explained it over and over, so asserting that I haven't doesn't make sense. Why ask for it again after it has already been shown many times over? Clearly this is a case of willfully shutting your mind down. I'll just give the link from now on instead of always typing it out...
http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?3476
I totally disagree. Not only were killings by atheists under these oppressive regimes in the hundreds of millions, but the types of deaths were horrific. Christians simply don't do that. As to other killings of other religions, well that make sense since they are not Christians. If you are trying to make yourself feel better because you don't kill as many people as other religions (who also reject Christ), which I can't find the data to help you your wishful thinking, I am not sure how that makes you sleep well at night in any case.1) Religious people have killed the most amounts of people in wars not Atheists. If you study history, you'll find that most of the people killed by Mao Zedong and Stalin were not due to war, but due to famine. Whether intentional or not, the amount of deaths caused by their actions does not compare to amount of people killed by religious people in the 20th century.
Since the Bible calls the the Roman Church the great harlot who makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications and Hitler reviled Christians and denounced Christianity in his speeches (not sure how you could overlook that fact), do you really think you are making much sense? Here are some quotes,2) Hitler wrote that he was effectively behaving according to God's will. He was baptized by the catholic church and they never excommunicated him. Nor did he denounce it.
http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?2901
As it is on earth so it is in heaven, for earth is fashioned after heaven. There is accountability here, how much more in heaven! Accountability exists because God exists. God doesn't want to fellowship with an atheists for eternity. That would make Him sad to be faced with someone who always rejects Him. So you will go to the Lake of Fire as you wish devoid of God's presence.3) There is absolutely no reason to believe in accountability or consequences after death even if there is a god.
Let me know if you can find those eyewitness in ancient documents multiply attested. And I don't think there was any rocket technology then to confirm it so it would be an illusion anyway at best. At worse just legend. The moon isn't split so I guess he never did split it. Therefore, someone lied. Were you able to find any specific miracles by Muhammad in the Koran? Let me know. Someone told me he performed no miracles but said of himself he was a greater prophet than Jesus. How can he be a greater prophet if he never performed any miracles?4) Muhammed split the moon in half to demonstrate that he was a prophet of god and performed miracles in his life time which have many testimonies to back them up. The Quran says that Jesus was not killed or crucified, but it was made to seem that way. The gospel of Barnabus backs this up also. Muslims use the bible to support their claims.
The Gospel of Barnabas is false to me because it can't resolve a contradiction it is faced with. If Jesus didn't die on the cross yet presented himself to the disciples as having done so, he would be a liar. But then he would not be a great prophet. And for the disciples to teach that they had seen Jesus resurrected in various group settings and willingly died for this testimony, means they truly believed it, yet nothing can account for this.
Why would God want to deceive the disciples to think they saw Jesus resurrected if He really didn't? Makes no sense. That sounds like something Satan would do. Are you saying the god of the Koran is actually Satan? I would believe that. Thus, we can conclude since the gospel of Barnabas presents no evidence to overturn the evidence we do have for Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and deity, we can be confident Jesus is God. The evidence really provides no possibility other than Jesus is God. Amen.
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No... Time doesn't really cause anything. That's like saying space is a root cause. Things happen inside space and time. They don't cause things to happen at all.Regress forward? Regress means backward. Time is a root cause, for without time, you couldn't have come into being in time. But time can't always have existed because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so.
Look at it this way: Effects happen inside space and time to particles because of causes.
You claim that micro organisms consuming, reproducing and excreting on a certain food type isn't that much different than a carbon-14 atom spontaneously emitting ionizing particles that transform it into a nitrogen-14 atom? What kind of nonsense are you selling here?I don't know if scientists know the cause of radioactive decay fully or partially. Decaying organically is not so different than decaying non-organically. They are still just particles. It simply is the case we can if we wish recount one causal relationship after another and come up with quadrillions of them since the beginning of time and no evidence for something coming from nothing. It would seem quite illogical then to insert something from nothing all because you reject God. We go with the evidence. Try it some time. It's very liberating. The truth will set you free.
They're just particles? What are you talking about? Cars and Planets are just particles, does that make them "not so different" too? Bears and Chainsaws are just particles too, does that make them "not so different" also?
I can't believe I started this discussion thinking you had some capability of intelligent thought.
Well your suspicions would be wrong and your proof isn't very lucid or demonstrable at all. In truth, I have no problem with religious people, I used to be very religious myself and most of my friends are too religious. I gave up religion because no one I could not find any reason why I believed a god existed and no one could provide me with one either. What I do have a problem with is people that devalue others because of their own beliefs, like you do. You spontaneously assumed that I didn't consider murder, rape and crime as bad and said that atheists are connected to nature in a vile disgusting way, you have prejudices against people because of their thoughts and because of your own fears, this kind of anti-social repugnant behavior is disgusting to me and I know many Christians that would dislike you for your baseless ideals.I would suspect one reason is because we know you are going to Hell and you may not like us knowing this about you. The proof I have that you don't appreciate those who have faith in God is because you narrowly define what you appreciate which in a conversation like this you certainly should have included those who have faith. As long as we don't talk about God, you can tolerate us.
I would love to receive salvation from him, but I know so little about him.Because you don't want to receive salvation from Him, that much is clear.
Your delusions are getting worse by the second, I didn't say that at all. The fact that your brain isn't capable of realising how rape, murder and crime happening to people around me works against my survival, demonstrates that no debate can open your eyes to true salvation.You said you don't take issue with those who differ from you. I presume you are not a murderer, rapist or criminal.
And you being a naturalist there is no reason why murder, rape and crime are not acceptable since these may very well aid in your natural selection.
Avoid it? I gave you evidence that nature does not show that everything has a cause and effect. Radioactive decay has no known cause, to make a claim that everything has a cause means that everything has been shown to have a cause, we do not know if everything needs a cause. For example, what are the causes of electromagnetism, strong nuclear force and weak nuclear force?You obsessively avoid the proof for God, so what can I do but repeat the very simple proof for God we all know intuitively.
I have already explained it over and over, so asserting that I haven't doesn't make sense. Why ask for it again after it has already been shown many times over? Clearly this is a case of willfully shutting your mind down. I'll just give the link from now on instead of always typing it out...
http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?3476
Everything has not been shown to have a cause-effect relationship, this is a false premise!
Also, infinite regress only applies to real-time that we experience. At a quantum level time itself breaks down. It has no beginning nor end.
Now you're just fabricating information. Here's a list of Atheist crimes.I totally disagree. Not only were killings by atheists under these oppressive regimes in the hundreds of millions, but the types of deaths were horrific. Christians simply don't do that. As to other killings of other religions, well that make sense since they are not Christians. If you are trying to make yourself feel better because you don't kill as many people as other religions (who also reject Christ), which I can't find the data to help you your wishful thinking, I am not sure how that makes you sleep well at night in any case.
Mao Zedong 20,000,000 - 43,000,000
Stalin - Holodomor Famine - 2,500,000 - 10,000,000
Pol Pot - Genocide - 1,700,000 - 2,500,000
Nuon Chea - Famine -1,700,000 - 3,000,000
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Adolf Hitler
Hitler was likely Christian, so I'll include him in the Christian section with question marks, here we go:
Crusades - War - 1,000,000 - 2,000,000
French War of Religion - 2,000,000 - 4,000,000
Thirty Years War - 3,000,000 - 11,500,000
Napoleonic Wars - 3,500,000 - 6,500,000
World War I - 15,000,000 - 65,000,000
Genocide of Hitler - 4,500,000 - 11,000,000 ????
Colonisation of Americas - 2,000,000 - 10,000,000
African Slave Trade - 3,500,000 - 4,000,000
Swedish Deluge - 3,000,000 - 4,000,000
Rwandan Genocide - 500,000 - 1,000,000
German Expulsian WWII - 500,000 - 3,000,000
Belgian Exploitation of the Congo -8,000,000 - 10,000,000
The amount of death, torture and belligerence involved in Christian history is appalling, what Mao Zedong and Stalin did was atrocious, possibly the worst form of neglect or perhaps heinous political planning, but it does not compare to the appalling behavior of Christians over the last Millenium, who were very ready to physically kill millions of others relentlessly and given enough reason they would even kill each other.
Interesting, considering that Hitler eventually spoke against the Catholic Church when it went against his political aims. He must have been a true Christian.Since the Bible calls the the Roman Church the great harlot who makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications and Hitler reviled Christians and denounced Christianity in his speeches (not sure how you could overlook that fact), do you really think you are making much sense? Here are some quotes,
http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?2901
Careful with your quotes there, many of Hitler's quotes are actually fabricated.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...er-a-christian
To be honest, he was probably neither, but there is enough evidence to say that he was.
Yeah, you've been saying this for a while, I'm starting to seriously think that maybe you really believe it.As it is on earth so it is in heaven, for earth is fashioned after heaven. There is accountability here, how much more in heaven! Accountability exists because God exists. God doesn't want to fellowship with an atheists for eternity. That would make Him sad to be faced with someone who always rejects Him. So you will go to the Lake of Fire as you wish devoid of God's presence.
The eye witness accounts are attested for in the books of Bukhari and Sahih Muslim dating back to the 7th and 8th centuries, they contain in themselves countless testimonies from people who saw the moon split with their own eyes and come back together.Let me know if you can find those eyewitness in ancient documents multiply attested. And I don't think there was any rocket technology then to confirm it so it would be an illusion anyway at best. At worse just legend. The moon isn't split so I guess he never did split it. Therefore, someone lied. Were you able to find any specific miracles by Muhammad in the Koran? Let me know. Someone told me he performed no miracles but said of himself he was a greater prophet than Jesus. How can he be a greater prophet if he never performed any miracles?
The Gospel of Barnabas is false to me because it can't resolve a contradiction it is faced with. If Jesus didn't die on the cross yet presented himself to the disciples as having done so, he would be a liar. But then he would not be a great prophet. And for the disciples to teach that they had seen Jesus resurrected in various group settings and willingly died for this testimony, means they truly believed it, yet nothing can account for this.
Why would God want to deceive the disciples to think they saw Jesus resurrected if He really didn't? Makes no sense. That sounds like something Satan would do. Are you saying the god of the Koran is actually Satan? I would believe that. Thus, we can conclude since the gospel of Barnabas presents no evidence to overturn the evidence we do have for Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and deity, we can be confident Jesus is God. The evidence really provides no possibility other than Jesus is God. Amen.
And from the point of view that there was no rocket technology to confirm it. You have to understand that rocket technology can't confirm that the moon is broken in half and flying away from each other and then coming back together any more than the actual light reflecting off the moon will.
Furthermore, there was no one around to test Jesus's cranial nerve reflexes to see if he had really died or not. You shouldn't apply something to another religion that you don't apply to yours.
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