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Thread: How to Judaize Christianity

  1. #11
    jerusalemcouncil Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork

    jerusalemcouncil:
    Are sinners condemned to death for failing to keep the Sabbath perfectly?

    Churchwork:
    Yes.....

    jerusalemcouncil:
    If it's a sin then for a sinner to fail to keep the Sabbath perfectly, then does the definition of what is and is not a sin somehow change when that sinner becomes a believer?

    Churchwork:

    No.....
    If failing to keep the Sabbath is a sin for both the sinner and the believer, then why do you say believers should not keep the Sabbath, and thus commit sin?

    By implication you are blatantly telling the saints to commit sin. Is this what you are doing? (If so, then I and any Christian for that matter, should have a right to be concerned.)

  2. #12
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    Because the Sabbath was for the Jews but no longer, likewise it is not for the Christian since the Holy Spirit is now the Sabbath indwelling.

    The way you keep yourself separated from salvation is by trying to keep a law unto yourself which is not even the law of the Sabbath of the Old Covenant just for the Jews back then. For example, if you received a strange message you claimed was from God to sacrifice your son on an altar, obviously that would be wrong. Likewise, trying to keep the Sabbath is wrong. Isaac is a type of Jesus. The Sabbath is a type of Holy Spirit indwelling rest Hebrews 4 says.

    If you continue to try to live by the law, you will die by the law and go to Hell. Only the grace of salvation through Christ can save you, and once received, you will no longer try to keep the Sabbath.

    So simple a child could understand.

  3. #13
    jerusalemcouncil Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    Because the Sabbath was for the Jews but no longer, likewise it is not for the Christian since the Holy Spirit is now the Sabbath indwelling.
    So then, do you retract what you said when I asked you:

    jerusalemcouncil:
    Are sinners condemned to death for failing to keep the Sabbath perfectly?

    Churchwork:
    Yes.....

  4. #14
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    I don't retract it.

  5. #15
    jerusalemcouncil Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    I don't retract it.

    Then how can you continue to say:

    "Because the Sabbath was for the Jews but no longer, likewise Christians"

    if in fact you believe that one who fails to keep the Sabbath, commits a sin, even if they are believer!?!

    Are you encouraging people to commit sin, by telling people to not keep the Sabbath, if failing to keep Sabbath is a sin?

    There is only one I know who encourages people to sin. And it's not God.

  6. #16
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    I don't believe you commit a sin if you don't keep the Sabbaths for that was then, this is now. What God is showing you personally is that if you create a law for yourself, whatever that may be, such as to do no work on Saturday's, if you break it even once, let it prove you are a sinner, among other ways to show you are a sinner in need of salvation. Salvation is not going to be received if you try to keep the Sabbath, thus rejecting Christ for the Sabbath points to the rest of the Holy Spirit indwelling.

    What does Paul teach concerning the Sabbath? He maintains that the Sabbath is a thing that has passed away: “having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross . . . Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ’s” (Col. 2.14,16-17).

    The burden of the proof is on you to show otherwise.

  7. #17
    jerusalemcouncil Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    What God is showing you personally is that if you create a law for yourself, whatever that may be, such as to do no work on Saturday's, if you break it even once, let it prove you are a sinner, among other ways to show you are a sinner in need of salvation.
    So you're saying is that if I believe there is no such thing as law, that I'm not a sinner, as long as I continue to believe there is no such thing as law? That sounds like subjective depravity to me. "I'm condemned only if I think I am." That is not at all scriptural.

    Salvation is not going to be received if you try to keep the Sabbath, thus rejecting Christ for the Sabbath points to the rest of the Holy Spirit indwelling.
    I am quite unaware that it was a sin to obey God. Just because the Sabbath points to the rest we will have at the End of the Age, doesn't mean the Sabbath is over and done with in this Age, especially when I have the Spirit. If you think it's a sin to keep the Sabbath, then you have seriously twisted the Word of God around to no effect. What is to prevent you from nullifying the rest of the Word of God?

    Think about the consequences of what you believe concerning this matter:

    If God gave the Sabbath for only a certain amount of time on earth (even though he says it's a commandment for all generations), and he comes one day and nullifies it and even makes it a sin to do it (risking your eternal life); then pray tell, what is to prevent one from concluding that your dearly-held "eternal Sabbath that you have now" won't be nullified at some later point in the future too, and declared just as wrong?!

    By throwing out the Sabbath which is a type and shadow of the rest we have in Christ, then according to type-reality application you then also must throw out the "eternal rest" you think we now have and will have at the End of the Age! Talk about pulling the rug out from underneath your hope. When you advocate that the types in this Age have an end in this Age, then you advocate that the realities of the next Eternal Age will have an end at some point in the Eternal Age. Elsewise your hermeneutic is inconsistent. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't reject the commandment to keep the Sabbath, and enjoy your Sabbath rest too!


    What does Paul teach concerning the Sabbath? He maintains that the Sabbath is a thing that has passed away: “having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross . . .


    Paul is not at all saying here that the Sabbath has passed away! You are adding words to the scripture that aren't even there. Ask yourself the simple question: what was blotted out? What does the text tell you? The bond or the ordinances or both? Hint:
    "having blotted out the bond written in ordinances" Isn't this what I've been saying? What was nailed to the cross was the curse of the law, the bond (debt), not the law itself (or else our redemption has no current value, and most importantly: Christ's death would not have worked to pay the debt since the debt of sin would still remain in Death's charge account, but the law that allows for substitutionary payment would be gone with which to legally pay it on behalf of others).

    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ’s” (Col. 2.14,16-17).
    Thank God for Paul's encouraging words. I will not let you judge me in meat, or drink, or respect of a feast day, or new moon, or sabbath day, which are most certainly a shadow of "things TO COME" and not yet realized.

  8. #18
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    The Bible uses the phrase, even a law you make unto yourself: the point being, no man can even keep a law he creates for himself. Not only is his law wrong, but he can't even keep it. He is conflicted and in need of salvation.

    What does Paul teach concerning the Sabbath? He maintains that the Sabbath is a thing that has passed away: “having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross . . . Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ’s” (Col. 2.14,16-17).

    If you can't be judged for not keeping the Sabbath, the burden of the proof remains on you to show otherwise. The things to come have already arrived. Jesus already died on the cross and gave His Spirit to indwell, that rest which the Sabbath points to and fills up, so no longer keep the Sabbath.

  9. #19
    jerusalemcouncil Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    The Bible uses the phrase, even a law you make unto yourself.
    That does not mean that if one doesn't have a law, they aren't counted as a sinner!

    If you can't be judged for not keeping the Sabbath, the burden of the proof remains on you to show otherwise.
    I can't prove a negative. That is logically impossible. What I can prove is that it is written to keep God's commandments, including the Sabbath, and there is no law for one who does, for they would also be loving God - as it is written "against such thing there is no law."


    The things to come have already arrived. Jesus already died on the cross and gave His Spirit to indwell, that rest which the Sabbath points to.
    So when Paul wrote "these are a shadow of things TO COME" did he write this phrase before or after Christ died and gave his spirit to indwell?

  10. #20
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    Since you can't find in the New Testament the law of the Sabbath must be kept, then the burden is on you. Since you refuse to prove it, you are wasting our time and get an infraction for Board Etiquette #6.

    Paul was referring to that which has long since been established under covenant with Israel which has now passed because the Holy Spirit like Jesus come to fill up the Sabbath's rest. However painful this is for you to accept Rom. 14.5 and Col. 2.16,17, you must accept God's Word.

    You are not born-again because you can't have two laws: a law of the Sabbath and the law of the indwelling Holy Spirit simultaneously, for the latter fills up the former. Since you keep the former, you deny the latter and never been quickened in your spirit by the Holy Ghost. How sad.

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