Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
In fact, you don't realize it, but this is what you are talking about, because the Sabbath has passed.
If Hebrews says there remains a Sabbath rest for us, then what Sabbath rest are we looking forward to if you say it's already past? As it is written:

Hebrews 4:9
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;


I do not believe you are loving God when a person is employed in their job on Saturday and they must quit their job because of your rule, when Jesus himself worked in the Sabbath.
I am curious from your perspective, are the commandments to keep, guard, do, serve, holy, enjoy, and not profane the Sabbath, of God or of the devil?


This is not love, but of the Devil.
When one describes it as a means to control others, it can most certainly be of the devil. Last I checked though, we aren't called to make disciples for ourselves, but for the Master, Jesus Christ.

Are you in a denomination like 7th Day Adventists?
No, I am not in any denomination.

Jesus filled up the law, by telling us His Spirit will be the rest that the law of the Sabbath points to just as the animal sacrifices point to His death on the cross. Believe me, what you are doing is not love.
Is love a feeling, a verb, or both?


Your distortion of Christianity goes by the name of legalism-you live by a list of do's and don'ts... Your concern for genuine change is valid, but not in the way you go about it.
Contrary to popular opinion, legalism is not following a list of do's and don'ts, after all, what are new believers encouraged to do? Keep sinning? Of course not. :) So then what is legalism? It's doing something to gain the favor of another. As believers, we already have God's favor, so what then is the list of do's and don'ts, but for our own protection?

You tend to make God's love something to earn rather than accept freely because you create a law unto yourself.
On the contrary, as believers, we already have God's love, as it is written "for God so loved the world..." so there is nothing left to earn. So then what is the instruction of God for? Instruction in how to love God and others as He desires.

Let me explain:

What is the Law? In Hebrew the word is "Torah." It comes from the root "yarah" which is an archery term which means "to hit the mark." Contrariwise, the Hebrew word for sin means to "miss the mark." Torah also comes from the Hebrew root "orah" which means "light" as in "thy word is a lamp unto my feet and light unto my path."

Furthermore, "Torah" does not mean "law." It can contain law, but it does not mean law. "Torah" means "instruction." As in God's instructions in how to live.

So as I was saying before, if Jesus teaches us that the entire Torah "hangs" from "love the LORD your God" and "love your neighbor as yourself," then the entire Torah is God's "instruction" in how to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. By very definition then it is the mark at which we aim at as we love one another. :) To fall short of the mark, is to in fact, hate.

The Man of Lawlessness (Torahlessness) is not a man of the Law. He is lawless (torahless), against the law. It could even rightly be argued at the mark of the man of lawlessness is literally the antithesis of keeping the Torah. That is also why the love (agape) of many will grow cold because (lawlessness) Torahlessness is increased - the direct relationship between keeping the "Torah" and love, and not keeping the Torah and "love growing cold" is absolute when viewed this way. After all, if there is no Torah, and Torah does not define lawlessness, and thus hate, then what does?

You would reduce Christianity to a set of impossible rules and transform the Good News into bad news.
Well I most certainly agree that keeping the Torah perfectly is impossible, yet perfection is never what the Torah intended (after all, why then is the sacrificial system given within its very pages?).

Also, if you are saying it's impossible to obey God's teaching and instruction in how to love God and love others, then I ask you, are we as believers not to love God and love others?

I was reading one of your other posts on this forum where you said:

"Should anyone tell you: "You must keep the law, you must keep the Sabbath day", you ought to realize that if you try to keep one single item in the book of law you unwittingly declare that Christ has not died for you, and therefore you cast away the work of Christ."

To which I ask, if one keeps the command to love God, or love their neighbor, are you saying then that by doing so they unwittingly declare that Christ has not died for them, and they cast away the work of Christ? After all, those two commandments are also items in the "book of the law." According to your warning, what then is a Christian supposed to do in their life so as to avoid not keeping any of God's commands in the book of the law? Sin?

I think our thoughts on this matter have very serious concequences in our walk, and how it affects the walk of others, if we fail to think through statements such as yours like this.

As important as change in action is, can you see that God may be desiring different change in you than others?
Oh by all means! We aren't saints over night, nor really is that the goal. Each of us are drawn by the Spirit learn what is already confirmed in the scriptures, and if we are saved, this always results in repentance, for repentance is the return to God's Word.


Trying to keep a particular day of the week is not love or life.
I think scripture clearly disagrees with your judgement on this:

Isaiah says its love:

Isaiah 56:6
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant

Ezekiel says its life:

Ezekiel 20:13
" 'Yet the people of Israel rebelled against me in the desert. They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws—although the man who obeys them will live by them—and they utterly desecrated my Sabbaths.

This also goes for all of God's commandments, not just the Sabbath, as it is written:

Exodus 20:6
showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

and

Leviticus 18:5
Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them.


Continue to study the proof why the Sabbath is no longer though not one tittle of the law will pass till these things are finished.
It is a fascinating read. The point we last left off on was in PM, and that was over the article's first case that the Sabbath is only a ceremonial law, not a moral one, yet in PM you agreed that it was a moral commandment. So then, how can the article continue to be right if it is built on that premise that the Sabbath is not a moral commandment? Should Christians be encouraged to keep the moral law?