What's Wrong With Gnosticism and Deism?

[Apoche]

An evil creator creates evil, so its nature produced only knows how to be evil and does not even have the choice, because evil can't create sentient beings.

You have to understand that an evil creator can't give free-will to a species of beings, because only that which is uncreated has that power. An evil creator can only make evil robots.

These are mere assertions anyway. As a matter of fact, Gnostics do not think that their souls were created by the Demiurge, only that their bodies were.

God does not create evil offspring, so Sophia is evil for creating evil gods.

God can, according to you, create beings which act evil without Him being evil; you said, after all, that we should "never blame God for sin." Doesn't the same go for Sophia? I mean, is it okay to blame it for the evil and incompetence of the Demiurge?

Oh, yes, and that is a non-sequitur, by the way. "God does not create evil offspring" does not imply that "Sophia is evil for creating evil gods."

In actuality they don't want out of the evil, that is why they are gnostics for believing in the false assumption to reject God's design and the atonement of Christ.

I bet most Gnostics would be surprised to learn this.

The attitude is quite scary

It is a scary attitude because it is one that starts wars and authors conflicts.

[Churchwork]

It doesn't matter whether body, soul or spirit, for a loving God does not give man an evil component. He provides him with a perfect working condition to start in the first Adamic man. Only that which is eternally existing can give self-consciousness and God-consciousness. Only that which has always had free-will can give free-will. All else has not that power, just like man will never be able to figure out how to create the first single celled organism. There are some things you will never figure out, because it is beyond your ability to even understand the how. This takes humility. Realize all you are doing is trying to usurp yourself above your true Creator. It's funny and yet at the same time, pathetic and saddening for you.

God is not the originator of evil. He gives people the choice for they are made in His image to have the choice. Sophia created evil directly. God never does. Sophia is the evil personage, but Sophia never fell from grace but would be created evil. Therein lies your contradiction. Moreover, nobody can create evil beings, for all beings are created good. God creates in His image. It is against God's good nature to create evil.

Most sinners are not really surprised to hear they are sinners, they just don't want to hear as they go out sinning. Like gnostics are preferring to remain in a lie, because of their willingness to remain separated from God and salvation. They don't want to hear about it but continue in that sin.

Jesus never started wars, so what is scary is to accuse Him and the Apostles and the true Church through history of crimes committed by the unsaved.

I think I will give you an infraction for accusing Jesus of starting wars, since you just self-declared it without anything to support your idea. For me it becomes a boring conversation to hear people mindlessly self-declare stuff they can't back up, nor try to.

My advice: don't be a dullard!

[Apoche]

Sophia created evil directly.

No, it created the Demiurge just like the Christian God created man. It is not accountable for the actions of its creation.

Moreover, nobody can create evil beings, for all beings are created good.

This statement directly contradicts what you've been saying about Sophia creating evil.

Jesus never started wars, so what is scary is to accuse Him and the Apostles and the true Church through history of crimes committed by the unsaved.

Oh for the love of goodness ... I said that Jesus' black and white attitude is the kind of attitude that starts wars, not that Jesus himself walked around and incited conflict.

[Churchwork]

The Demiurge is evil in the gnostic world as gnostics believe this creator is evil who was given this right to create by the ultimate Creator. It is assumed Sophia created the evil Demiurge; I didn't say it was true, but that it can't be true, since God does not create evil.

The uncreated Creator is the only one who can create sentient beings. And man who is created is not evil. Moreover, the ethereal beings you cite are unsubstantiated, but Jesus walked the earth.

Things are very specific in God's design, which you call black and white while you live in greyness and vagaries. They say the devil is in the details, but he is also in vagaries and lack of clarity. That is when his deceptions arise.

[Apoche]

The Demiurge is evil in the gnostic world as gnostics believe this creator is evil who was given this right to create by the ultimate Creator.

The Demiurge was never given any right to create anything. He (for it is the God of the Old Testament) acted out of arrogance and. Sophia did not give Him the right to do whatever He wanted.

It is assumed Sophia created the evil Demiurge; I didn't say it was true, but that it can't be true, since God does not create evil.

Yes, but by your logic, I can say God created Hitler. Sophia might have created the Demiurge, but the Demiurge acted on its own accord, and thus did evil. Sophia did not create an evil being; it created a being that did evil because it had free will and chose to do so.

And man who is created is not evil. Moreover, the ethereal beings you cite are unsubstantiated, but Jesus walked the earth.

So did founders of many religions: Muhammad, Zoroaster, Buddha, Confucius, et cetera.

Things are very specific in God's design, which you call black and white while you live in greyness and vagaries.

And this makes God very dangerous as a person. A political system that cares not for the scales of grey between the white and black ends is one akin to Soviet Russia. If people didn't love communism, they hated their countries and wished for US-style capitalism, or so the leaders of the Soviet Union reasoned. Likewise, if someone doesn't like Jesus, he is immediately seen as an affront to all that is good. That is a dangerous attitude, for it incites wars.

The Demiurge is evil in the gnostic world as gnostics believe this creator is evil who was given this right to create by the ultimate Creator.

Sophia 'birthed' the Demiurge, but the Demiurge acted on its own accord and was never given any right to create anything. I have said this so many times, and yet you ignore it.

The uncreated Creator is the only one who can create sentient beings.

Gnostics would agree.

And man who is created is not evil.

Nor is the Demiurge. He is mistaken, incompetent and arrogant, but not evil.

Things are very specific in God's design, which you call black and white while you live in greyness and vagaries.

You make God sound like some dictator in the vein of Stalin. Either you're with him or you're against him is not really that different from either you're a communist or you're an enemy to the state.

[Churchwork]

God of the OT (same as the NT) is not gnostic, so He is not the Demiurge you speak of. There is no arrogance in the Triune God at all. He is righteous, holy and faithful. In gnosticism the creator of the universe and people is evil, but God of the Bible, who is loving would not cause people such heartache to know they were created evilly and He would never create a being who could then create evilly. Man is not evil; man was made perfect without any evil in him whatsoever. Your Demiurge is evil whether he was made that way or chose to be that way; just like Satan is evil through and through and will never repent.

None of these ever claimed to be the uncreated creator: Muhammad, Zoroaster, Buddha, Confucius. Only Jesus did. He is unique.

There is a definite improvement of democracies over communism. There is no gray area about this. Just like there is no gray area about Jesus who died on the cross for your sins. Either He did it or He didn't do it. He did it! Satan loves the gray area to create confusion (Satan is the author of confusion) and ecumenicalism and contradicts himself all the time, like you do. How could such an intelligent being be so dumb? It's a free-country. Don't blame God's precision work and excellence bar none for the evil concept of godless communism. That's insane and twisted as heck!

The Demiurge is an evil concept because he was given the right to create even though he was evil. Only the uncreated Creator can create because only the Creator is perfect in every way. I think you are misrepresenting gnosticism, because the basis of gnostic is clearly outlined.

God created you, you sinned, sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell. God loved you so much He died for you on the cross to save you from your self, but you reject Him. You call Him a dictator. You're only dictating yourself above God's loving merciful act. He did all He can do for you; it is now up to you to continue to reject His love or receive it. God is the computer program of the program we are in. He is just. Nothing He does is wrong, so when you accuse Him, you condemn yourself.

Praise the Lord for this discernment!

[Apoche]

God of the OT (same as the NT) is not gnostic, so He is not the Demiurge you speak of.

I don't care what you think, and nor does the Gnostics. According to Gnostic theology, the God of the OT is the Demiurge, and a separate being from the God of the NT, who is the actual son of Sophia.

None of these ever claimed to be the uncreated creator: Muhammad, Zoroaster, Buddha, Confucius. Only Jesus did. He is unique.

The question was not if these people claimed to be the uncreated creator; I mentioned them because they walked earth and founded various religions. I brought them up because you said "none of the ethereal beings you cite are unsubstantiated, but Jesus walked Earth." By the way, would you care to tell me which ethereal beings I cited?

There is a definite improvement of democracies over communism. There is no gray area about this.

Yes, of course, either you're trying to avoid answering my question or you do not get what I am saying. I said that communist states often employ black and white thinking along the lines of "either you're with me or against me," not that communist states are better than democracies.

Just like there is no gray area about Jesus who died on the cross for your sins. Either He did it or He didn't do it.

It is black and white thinking to say that either you're with Jesus or you are his enemy.

Don't blame God's precision work and excellence bar none for the evil concept of godless communism.

I am not blaming God for communism. Read my post.

The Demiurge is an evil concept because he was given the right to create even though he was evil.

No, he went against the will of Sophia just like man went against the will of God. If man has free will and can decide to be good or evil, so does the Demiurge. Sophia did not create Him with the intention of being evil; he turned evil on his own account.

I think you are misrepresenting gnosticism, because the basis of gnostic is clearly outlined.

This outline is written by you, and you do not seem to understand a lot about Gnosticism.

[Churchwork]

God of the Bible conveys Himself as being uncreated, not a son of Sophia, so there is your first mistake. Jesus is the Son of God and Son of Man conveying His deity. He does this in Matt. 9.1-8. Make sure you read it to confirm for yourself.

Mat 9:1 And he entered into a boat, and crossed over, and came into his own city. Mat 9:2 And behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, be of good cheer; thy sins are forgiven. Mat 9:3 "Blasphemy! This man talks like he is God!" some of the teachers of religious law said among themselves. Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? Mat 9:5 For which is easier, to say, Thy sins are forgiven; or to say, Arise, and walk? Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath authority on earth to forgive sins (then saith he to the sick of the palsy), Arise, and take up thy bed, and go up unto thy house. Mat 9:7 And he arose, and departed to his house. Mat 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they were afraid, and glorified God, who had given such authority unto men.

The Messiah in Isaiah 53 is the Christ. Jesus said He is the great "I AM" so did God of the OT. Since you have nothing to back your theology, why hold onto it? Why cling to something you have no evidence for? Just like Islam said Jesus did not die on the cross, you believe in gnosticism. You guys don't need evidence. That is illogical.

Founding a religion is not what is in focus. For the uncreated Creator He must admit He is the uncreated Creator. That's what Jesus does. None of your other folks did that. Walking the earth is what we all do, so that is no big deal. Walking the earth and calling yourself God is unique.

Just because an evil nation thinks black and white, does not mean black and white is not true, but that their kind of black and white is false. Jesus proved the only way to salvation is through Him and the only way to the Father is through the Son, for good reason, since only Jesus was sinless. An imperfect sacrifice will never fully atone for my sins nor yours. This clearly indicates you are going to hell for rejecting God's only begotten Son.

Since you call Jesus a liar when He said He is God, you're definitely black and white on the subject, so you are going to hell, because there is no other name by which one may be saved under heaven. Jesus said that Himself. He told you the truth, for He is God. The Pharisees recognized Jesus was saying He is God so they accused of Him. He is the One who has the power to forgive your sins.

I didn't say you were blaming communism, I said you were blaming God's precision work which you call black and white. You do this because your are expressing your independency and disobedience to God in your sin nature. Only hell can further address your condition.

Though God created man perfectly and man choose to rebel, God still didn't give man the right to create sentient beings. But your evil god Sophia did.

I did not write that link on gnosticism. It was taken out of the magazine, "Christianity". Funny. Have you noticed you are always wrong? Always assuming things you can't back up. That is what it means to be antichrist, for Christ is true and you therefore reject all truth, for all truth leads back to Him. He sums up all things. All things begin and end with Him. My prayers go out to you, for you know not what you do.

Praise the Lord for this discernment!