Are you Saved before You Believe or After?

[beloved57]

The Gospel or “good news” about Christ and salvation is not about what He is doing. The Gospel is about what Christ has done. The Gospel comes as an announcement to God’s people that those who believe this message are already part of of God’s kingdom. Those that believe were justified by Christ over 2000 years ago on the cross.

Jn 19:28, (KJV), After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

Jn 19:30, (KJV), When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Heb 9:12, (KJV), Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

1 Cor 15:3-4, (KJV), For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That’s all there is to it! It’s a simple message and comes as “glad tidings” (Rom 10:15) to God’s chosen vessels of mercy (Rom 9:23). Christians look back to the cross of Christ for all of their salvation and nothing else. They do not look to any experience or any other event in their lives.

The Apostle Paul warned against anti-christs that would come and pervert this message with false gospels and was even fighting these awful messages during his ministry. Today, the warning of anti-christ has been realized and there are many false gospels. There are generally two prevailing characteristics amongst these false gospels. First, they all use “Gospel language”. Second, they all point to a real benefit of the cross as the basis of salvation. For example, one of the benefits of Christ’s death is the precious gift of faith which is given to Christ’s people for their assurance. It is how they come to rely and know of Christ’s atonement for them. But many people have made it the basis for salvation. Phrases such as: “you must be born again”, “you have to have faith”, “God loves you and wants to save you”, and “accept Christ as your personal savior” are generally dead giveaways that the person using this language is promoting a false gospel.

We must be on guard against confusing our experiences with the message of Christ. It is true that we must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God, but that is not the Gospel. Being born again is a result of Christ’s accomplished salvation – not the cause of it.

I for one take great joy in knowing that salvation is entirely outside of me and rejoice in the alien righteousness of my Lord Jesus Christ. I am content to know that His righteousness is mine simply by God’s Sovereign Grace. This truly is good news.

[AlwaysLoved]

bel,

People are justified by faith today, not 2000 years ago (ie, you wrongly said "those that believe were justified by Christ over 2000 years ago on the cross"), for many were not yet born. Rather, people are saved by what Christ did 2000 years ago...it is finished!

The objective entrance into the new creation through new birth by receiving what Jesus did on the cross is made real through the subjective experience of the Holy Spirit bringing forth the work of the cross in Christian lives.

You have exposed your own unsalvation when you reject "you must be born-again," reject "you have to have faith," reject "God loves you and wants to save you," and reject the need to "accept Christ as your personal savior". Such doublespeak as saying it is wrong to say “you must be born again” and then say "it is true that we must be born again" shows your attempt to be cunning and couth. A Christian would never use such false doublespeaking "gospel language". Satan is the great confuser.

This shows very plainly you are promoting some false gospel as an antichrist; naturally, you pervert the gospel by demanding you don't have to choose Christ but think you were premade that way like a robot. So, you teach that you don't have to be born-again. Crazy stuff! The gift of faith is given to one who activates it; that is, they must authentically come to the cross to receive Christ, then God bestows the gift of faith and saves the person and daily increasing the believer's faith.

Being born-again is the gospel. The gospel is Jesus is uncreated deity, He died on the cross for our sins and He was resurrected; and in order to be saved (born-again) one must truly believe. How silly your statement was to say being born-again is the cause of Christ's death on the cross.

Salvation is in Christ and God requires something of you, though not of self, to come to the cross to be saved and receive Him. The god you worship is unrighteous because he teaches a false righteousness in claiming you were a premade robot for salvation without any regard first for your choice and that others had no choice, but were premade zombies for hell also. I trust readers can see how evil this god is that you worship!

You can see how heretical calvinism is.

[beloved57]

you were a premade robot for salvation without any regard first for your choice and that others had no choice, but were premade zombies for hell also. I trust readers can see how evil this god is that you worship!

You can see how heretical calvinism is.

You are ignorant to bible salvation and far as I can see reprobated. People may not be robots as you say, but I tell you what, every individual is like a piece of clay in the potters hand and they are created for whatever purpose he made them ! You can believe that!:yes:

Rom 9

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

[AlwaysLoved]

bel,

You are not a Christian and thus seek to alter the salvation in the Bible. Yes, you are a reprobate.

Every person is made in God's image (Gen. 1.26,27) and the body was formed from dust (2.7). Since God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10.34), every person has an equal right to receive salvation.

God's purpose in creating us is to walk with those who would receive Him by their free-choice. You have made the free-choice for yourself not to be saved because you demand you are saved another way, by thinking you were a premade robot for salvation. God will never save a person with such pride!

Since you admit "people may not be robots," this proves calvinism is a lie of the unsaved tares, because calvinism teaches falsely that a person is totally deprave unable to choose to come to the cross as a helpless sinner and would need to be a robot preprogrammed for salvation in order to do so. Crazy stuff! And that means also that there would be humans created and designed just for hell without any regard for their choice. You ought to see how evil this idea is of calvinism and why you are such a bad person for believing it. It is the false fruit Christians can know you by which the armor of God protects us from you.

Those who receive honor are those who choose the Father's Son. You have not, so hell is for you. How truly sad I am for you that this is what you want for yourself and thankful to God that He will keep you eternally separated from His sons and daughters.