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Thread: Why is the church in ruin?

  1. #1
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    Default Why is the church in ruin?

    Why does the church always seem in ruin?

    The answer is simple - overassuming!

    Men step where they do not belong. Instead of seeking the dividing of spirit, soul and body, emotion gets stirred inordinately to such a degree false tongues comes in and other antics.

    The mind suffers mental gymnastics which creates errors, and overassuming types in the Scriptures.

    People stop reading the Bible for their spirit, and do so many things in the name of God, it is hard to believe they are doing God's will.

    And in the church itself, man overassumed how to fellowship, dividing by doctrines and men, even national boundaries or by independent congregations. I can hardly stand it.

    What is this Laodicean overassuming "differing opinions" caused by?

    Lack of humility; that is a fruit of the Spirit which flows from the Spirit applying the cross to our lives.

    If I had to say the underlying of lack of humility is caused by people taking their eye of the cross.

    Consequently, Biblical locality has been utterly forgotten by the church. And no one cares to do anything about it. None!

    I wonder what God is going to do with church having forsaken Biblical locality?

  2. #2
    BellaRose1 Guest

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    Troy,
    Do you believe people can speak in tongues, interpret tongues and prophecy etc...?
    Do you believe that what happened in Acts still happens today?

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    Yes, of course, but it is not what is commonly thought of as being gibberish babble of Pentecostals.

    http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/FalseTongues.htm

    15) Do you believe Pentecostals' tongues is not teaching Biblical tongues?
    a) Do you believe this first wave movement of Pentecostals' tongues that began in the late 19th century is not a gift of the Holy Spirit?
    b) Do you believe it is actually to confuse the the soul and spirit?
    c) Do you believe it requires the alteration of the Word of God?
    d) Do you believe it has the appearance of being harmless, supernatural or emotionally acceptable as it was designed for the tares and to deceive brothers and sisters in Christ?
    e) Do you believe it is falsely claiming a language that is non-linguistic?
    f) Do you believe it does not flow from a quickened spirit in its mediums of babble & psychic gibberish?
    g) Do you believe that the interpreters of these false tongues are inconsistent in their psychic readings of gibberish babble?
    h) Do you believe the teaching of repetitive mind drowning, which its users called pray-reading, is not of God?
    i) Do you believe the shouting and screaming mantra is neither prayer nor reading?
    j) Do you believe shouting mantra is violent?
    k) Do you believe both of these practices (Pentecostals' false tongues and mind-droning) which create passivity, are used to control people by confusing emotion for spirit?
    l) Do you believe Biblical tongues are "other languages"?
    m) Do you humbly accept no other use of tongues is spoken of in the Scriptures than described in (l)?
    n) Do you believe the tongue are known by the one speaking in tongues (otherwise, it becomes passivity), but the hearer may not understand the tongue spoken?
    o) Do you believe tongues are a gift of languages to spread the Word of God to other nations of other languages?
    o) Do you believe tongues are a supernatural gift from God to speak forth other languages?
    p) Do you believe tongues are a sign to those that do not know those languages to show that those of other dialects can also receive salvation, praise and thank God in those tongues they know? (As for example, for the Jews, who observe believers of other languages of other nations praising God of the Bible)?
    q) Do you believe false tongues of Pentecostalism was practiced in the second century under Montanism, and today, it has simply been given a new name?

  4. #4
    onfire4christ Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by BellaRose1
    Troy,
    Do you believe people can speak in tongues, interpret tongues and prophecy etc...?
    Do you believe that what happened in Acts still happens today?
    Forgive me,
    I'm not troy. But may I answer the question?

    Yes, I not only believe,but I do speak in tongues as the Holy Ghost give the utterance. It's very real, and very powerful.

    Why wouldn't what happens in Acts happen today? It was the building of the Church. Plus why would God give to them then,and not give to us now.

    Remember he says himself that he is no respecter person

    Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    Now, there are those who do just babble and are playing with the Holy Ghost. These people, i won't be for a million dollars. These are the ones that say they can speak in tonques when they chose to, or that they control the Holy Spirit to speak in tonques.....LIES!!!

    You cannot control the Holy Ghost, He is a person, He get's angry, He grieves and he judges those who quench and suppress him. And he will take care of those who Lie to Him. Check out Annanias and Sapphira


    Acts 5:3-5 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? {to lie to: or, to deceive} Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
    The Holy Ghost is very real. And I thank God everyday that I'm Saved, Sanctified and filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfire4christ
    Forgive me,
    I'm not troy. But may I answer the question?
    That was ignorant to say you are not Troy.

    Yes, I not only believe,but I do speak in tongues as the Holy Ghost give the utterance. It's very real, and very powerful.
    The Holy Spirit does not give utterance to speak gibberish babble. This is a heresy that began under montanism in the 2nd century to confuse emotion for spirit. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/montanism.htm

    Why wouldn't what happens in Acts happen today? It was the building of the Church. Plus why would God give to them then,and not give to us now.
    What happened in Acts is happening today, why think otherwise? God gives now as was given then, why think otherwise?

    Now, there are those who do just babble and are playing with the Holy Ghost. These people, i won't be for a million dollars. These are the ones that say they can speak in tonques when they chose to, or that they control the Holy Spirit to speak in tonques.....LIES!!!
    And there are those who alter the Word of God in their hearts saying tongues is gibberish babble, even though there are no actual cases of this in the Scriptures. What you do you do indepedently and not in agreement with the Word.

    You cannot control the Holy Ghost, He is a person, He get's angry, He grieves and he judges those who quench and suppress him. And he will take care of those who Lie to Him. Check out Annanias and Sapphira
    Yes, He will.

    The Holy Ghost is very real. And I thank God everyday that I'm Saved, Sanctified and filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.
    I pray and hope this is not referring to the false tongues of Pentecostalism that the evil spirit uses to deceive.

  6. #6
    bertie Guest

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    I too have wondered about the gifts of the Holy spirit....
    Speaking in tounges was ,on the day of pentacost,understood and recognized by various jews that were there at the time,from all over the known world.They actually recognized the languages spoken,and could uderstand what these apostles were saying.
    However,there is another part of the bible which states that the Spirit,prays in such groanings,and utterances,that are not intelligable to human ears,but that God does understand.The only distinctiobn i can discern here is that these spirit prayers are not for other human ears and are spoken omly to god.As i see it these groanongs and utterances are for private pryer and comminion with God in the privacy of the prayer chamber,and not for display to the congrgation.Perhaps there is another interpretation that someone has come up with through the Spirits guidance.please dont be shy to chime in here.Speaking in tounges is considered the indication that one is filled with the Spirit at the spirit baptism of the convert.this usually takes place by the laying on of hands, and speaking in tounges after is a sign that the spirit baptism "took".This has been a rather stumbling point for me and i have yet to recieve the laying on of hands because i am rather dubious about the doctrine.(Besides what about those who dont then speak in tounges?Are they not then filled with the Holy Spirit?After all there are several gifts they could recieve and paul says not all will recieve all the gifts .....
    the whole situation is fraught with implications that are not nessessarily scriptural.....as far as i can see......

  7. #7
    onfire4christ Guest

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    That was ignorant to say you are not Troy.
    It's ignorant of me to ask if i may answer? How is that ignorant. Were I'm from that's called manners.

    The Holy Spirit does not give utterance to speak gibberish babble. This is a heresy that began under montanism in the 2nd century to confuse emotion for spirit.
    I agree that a lot of people don't know the difference between emotion and the move of the Holy Spirit. That is usely because they have been taught incorrectly on Who the Holy Ghost is and what he does in our lives.
    He not only speaks thru us to God. But He also, teaches, comforts, leads, and Praises God thru us.

    And there are those who alter the Word of God in their hearts saying tongues is gibberish babble, even though there are no actual cases of this in the Scriptures. What you do you do indepedently and not in agreement with the Word.
    Okay, i'm trying to make sense here. Your right, there are people out there who are not filled with the Holy Ghost and are faking it. Then there are those who are genuinely filled with the Holy Ghost and speaks in tongues, Like myself, I speak when the Holy Ghost speaks, not on my command, but when he wants to. I have been blessed with the gift of tongues, which is interpreted. These are true and absolute gifts of the Spirit.
    Speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance is Biblical and is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Ghost in someones life.

    Are we on the same page here, or am I just not understanding what your saying?

    I pray and hope this is not referring to the false tongues of Pentecostalism that the evil spirit uses to deceive.
    As i stated earlier, The Spirit speak thru me as the Spirit gives utterance. Not when I want to It's not about me, it's about Him, Christ our Savior and God the Father with the Comfortor the Holy Ghost.

    I am Pentecostal, but not all Pentecostals are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfire4christ
    It's ignorant of me to ask if i may answer? How is that ignorant. Were I'm from that's called manners.
    It is not manners to say to forgive you for not being somebody else, when it is obvious you are not someone else. Therefore, you speak with a curdle in your tongue.

    I agree that a lot of people don't know the difference between emotion and the move of the Holy Spirit. That is usely because they have been taught incorrectly on Who the Holy Ghost is and what he does in our lives.
    He not only speaks thru us to God. But He also, teaches, comforts, leads, and Praises God thru us.
    I did not say the difference between emotion and the move of the Holy Spirit. I said the difference between emotion and the man's spirit wherein the Holy Spirit indwells. The Holy Spirit is God who speaks to us in our spirit Whom we commune with in our spirit in praying to God the Father.

    Okay, i'm trying to make sense here. Your right, there are people out there who are not filled with the Holy Ghost and are faking it. Then there are those who are genuinely filled with the Holy Ghost and speaks in tongues, Like myself, I speak when the Holy Ghost speaks, not on my command, but when he wants to. I have been blessed with the gift of tongues, which is interpreted. These are true and absolute gifts of the Spirit. Speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance is Biblical and is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Ghost in someones life. Are we on the same page here, or am I just not understanding what your saying?
    "Filled with the Holy Ghost," will show forth gifts according to God's good pleasure, one of them which may be the gift of tongues, for not everyone has the gift to speak different languages, yet many are filled with the Holy Spirit. Speaking in your language what is given by the Holy Spirit is not a gift of tongues, but speaking in other languages is. The Holy Spirit does not give utterance to speak gibberish babble of today's Pentecostalism, a throwback of Montanism. Any interpretation from interpreters of Pentecotals today, will generate a different interpretation each time showing you that false tongues is what you have. What you speak forth is evidence of the evil spirit. I pray and hope that you repent.

    As i stated earlier, The Spirit speak thru me as the Spirit gives utterance. Not when I want to It's not about me, it's about Him, Christ our Savior and God the Father with the Comfortor the Holy Ghost. I am Pentecostal, but not all Pentecostals are the same.
    You are Pentecostal and possessed by the demon of false tongues. You have replaced overcoming in Christ with the passivity of false tongues and having no faith to believe God can give eternal life that is eternal at new birth.

  9. #9
    onfire4christ Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by bertie
    I too have wondered about the gifts of the Holy spirit....
    Speaking in tounges was ,on the day of pentacost,understood and recognized by various jews that were there at the time,from all over the known world.They actually recognized the languages spoken,and could uderstand what these apostles were saying.
    You are absolutely right:

    Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Here it is with other tongues...
    Acts 2:5-11 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. {was...: Gr. voice was made confounded: or, troubled in mind} And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
    And because of this 3000 more people Got filled with the Holy Ghost.
    However,there is another part of the bible which states that the Spirit,prays in such groanings,and utterances,that are not intelligable to human ears,but that God does understand.The only distinctiobn i can discern here is that these spirit prayers are not for other human ears and are spoken omly to god.As i see it these groanongs and utterances are for private pryer and comminion with God in the privacy of the prayer chamber,and not for display to the congrgation.
    We are told at times to go to a prayer closet and just you and God get in touch with each other and you may speak in tongues then, then again you may not. It's when He wants to speak, cause then he is praising God and telling God what you need. It is a direct line to God.
    But it is not always in private, it can be in a congregation, When that happens it is at times for the edification of the church, you or for someone else in the congregation. If it was interpreted or not.

    Perhaps there is another interpretation that someone has come up with through the Spirits guidance.please dont be shy to chime in here.Speaking in tounges is considered the indication that one is filled with the Spirit at the spirit baptism of the convert.
    Amen

    this usually takes place by the laying on of hands, and speaking in tounges after is a sign that the spirit baptism "took".This has been a rather stumbling point for me and i have yet to recieve the laying on of hands because i am rather dubious about the doctrine.(Besides what about those who dont then speak in tounges?Are they not then filled with the Holy Spirit?After all there are several gifts they could recieve and paul says not all will recieve all the gifts .....
    the whole situation is fraught with implications that are not nessessarily scriptural.....as far as i can see......
    First don't let it be a stumblingblock.....The day of pentecost, there was no laying on of Hands when they recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
    Paul, He had no laying on of the Hands when He recieved the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.
    Heres' a real cool one. John the Baptist was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost before He was even Born, other than Christ he was the only other person born without sin. You do not have to have the laying on of Hands to recieve it. Yes, you can recieve it that way, and many people do. I pray for people seeking the Holy Ghost and I lay my hands on them, then again, I 've seen people recieve the Holy Ghost and have not one digit touch them.
    It's not about us, bertie, It's not what we can do or say. It's not something that we can control. It's all God and we must trust him and believe in him. Not saying you don't..But don't let that be a stumbling block. Next time you get before God and start seeking the Holy Ghost, don't worry about who's laying hands on you, Think about God laying his hand on you and it will light up your life.

  10. #10
    Ruah Brit Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Why does the church always seem in ruin?

    The answer is simple - overassuming!

    Men step where they do not belong. Instead of seeking the dividing of spirit, soul and body, emotion gets stirred inordinately to such a degree false tongues comes in and other antics.

    The mind suffers mental gymnastics which creates errors, and overassuming types in the Scriptures.

    People stop reading the Bible for their spirit, and do so many things in the name of God, it is hard to believe they are doing God's will.

    And in the church itself, man overassumed how to fellowship, dividing by doctrines and men, even national boundaries or by independent congregations. I can hardly stand it.

    What is this Laodicean overassuming "differing opinions" caused by?

    Lack of humility; that is a fruit of the Spirit which flows from the Spirit applying the cross to our lives.

    If I had to say the underlying of lack of humility is caused by people taking their eye of the cross.

    Consequently, Biblical locality has been utterly forgotten by the church. And no one cares to do anything about it. None!

    I wonder what God is going to do with church having forsaken Biblical locality?
    In the majority of Christ's teachings he teaches complete rejection of your lives in order to enter into His life. He teaches a level of worthyness to be called His deciple or to be called a follower. This is where the majority of "Christians" are going to be in trouble here very soon when the Lord sends His two prophets to shut down the world. I would Cut and past the scriptures but this forum doesn't show the post option when I right click.

    Ruah Brit

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