Mor(m)ons Should Feel Ashamed

[evan]

I agree, it is not a coincidence as mormonism and moron have similar origins in lettering. Noticing this observation is discerning of us Christians about mormon-morons who believe Jesus was not uncreated.

You think you have the 'gift of discernment' because you call Mormons morons????

You think that 'Mormon' and 'moron' have similar origins in lettering????

Are you for real???

The obvious question is, Why worship the created?

Why not? The Bible talks about people worshipping the 'created' as being bad. However, it is speaking of worshipping either the things that men make/create, or the earthly things that God has made, thereby replacing God in both cases.

Since believing that Jesus was 'created' doesn't replace God as the object of worship, nor does it make Jesus a man-made creation, where is the problem?

The distinct operations of the Father and the Son do not demand they be different beings. You have shown no reason to think so. This is the characteristic of a mormon to overassume. Hence the name mormon-moron. Don't let Satan rule you, but feel embarrassed by being a mormon so as to bring you to repentance from this assumed belief of different beings and atonement by a created being.

"mormon-moron"?

You have once again shown that you don't understand what Jesus was even talking about! Doesn't 'love one another' mean anything to you?

You are certainly free to introduce the new idea God is a number of different beings instead of One personal Uncreated Being, but there needs be evidence for it, to consider it. You would have to overturn monotheism of the OT and the monotheism of the Trinity in the NT. Since what you have provided so far does not help your case, know that you are living a lie.

The scriptures that I previously posted are a basis for my belief. Since you have not addressed them in the slightest, what further burden is there for me to provide more evidence?

The God of the OT is One Uncreated Being. Ask any Jewish person. This did not change in the NT. Therefore, to be humble is to remain in the same view. Separate individuals in the Godhead shows the Father and the Son are distinct, but they are not separate, nor different beings. God the Father is not a person, like people are, but He is the 1st Person of the Godhead. Person is a spiritual term to describe any one of the 3 Persons of the Godhead, and does not mean individuals. Stop trying to understand the Godhead in human terms. You will fail every time you try to do so.

Yet the scriptures give many instances of God being separate individuals!

The Father is greater than Christ (John 14:28)
Stephen saw Christ standing on the right hand of God (Acts 7:55,56)
If Jesus is God, and the Father is God, we can either have 2 beings, or 1 beings (apparently). However, this is clearly addressed in John 17:11, 20-23-

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are....

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Thus we see that Jesus speaks of himself as being 'one' with God in spirit, not in 'substance' (which is definately NOT in the scriptures).

Wither regards to John 10:30-

The non-LDS scholar David J. Ellis gives the following explanation in his commentary on John in The International Bible Commentary (ed. F.F. Bruce, Zondervan Publ. House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1986, p. 1249):

I and the Father are one (Gk. hen): The neuter gender rules out any thought of meaning 'one Person.' This is not a comment on the Godhead. Rather, having spoken of the sheep's security in both Himself and the Father, Jesus underlines what He has said by indicating that in action the Father and He can be regarded as a single entity, because their wills are one.

Enduring to the end is unto rewards, not for or loss of eternal life. You see my God has told me by the Holy Spirit that I can never lose eternal life. I can however lose the prize, which is the reward of reigning in the millennial kingdom.

Please provide your evidence for support of 'once saved always saved' belief. You have charged me with not providing any evidence, and yet we find you doing exactly the same.

You see God of the Bible is always greater than your god because He has infinite foreknowledge to know whom to give His life to so that it could never be lost after new birth. Your god is weak, for in his claim of saving at new birth, that life can still be lost.

Actually, you're wrong. Again, you provide no evidence, but that's okay. You claim that 'my' god is weak? however, you fail to understand that the question of whether eternal life can be lost or not has no bearing upon the power of 'my' god. If eternal life is lost, it is because of my actions, not any deficiency of the part of God.

Moreover, your savior is a created being, whereas my Savior is Uncreated. Your ego is attached to an assumed position which you have no basis for.

You should not be talking about 'ego', considering what you have posted.

Since the power of the Atonement rested upon the fact that Jesus was sinless, which I believe, I find your statement to be without any basis.

Don't you know Satan is the head of mormonism?

Reeeeeeally? Gosh! I had no idea.

Christians will always refuse the mormonism view of love, for it is not the love of the Uncreated Lord Jesus Christ.

Huh? The 'mormonism view of love'??

How is that different to the view of love as described in the Bible?

You can see the power God has given me

No, I can't.

you-a moron mormon man.

I believe that you are probably quite sincere, which is admirable. But you have serious flaws in the way you understand and practice the fundamental basics of Christianity.

[evan]

evan, your answers which show your beliefs are horrible.

Right back atcha, buddy.

Trinity

:
No - rejecting the Uncreated Trinity

If you want to debate whether or not God is 'uncreated', sure, let's go.

Distinction of God's Three Persons:
No - rejecting the 3 forms of God

I actually didn't understand a lot of these questions. They mixed different bits together so that I found that if I answered one of them, it would contradict my beliefs about the other. Very unclear.

I reject that God is 'one' being of the same 'substance'. I believe that there is God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. 3 distinct separate individuals who are united in will and purpose. You find the explaination of that in John 17.

Once-saved-always-saved

:
No - rejecting God's infinite foreknowledge to whom to give eternal life to

I reject the belief that salvation is, once 'gained', unable to be lost. The scripture I quoted says Matthew 24: 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. You claimed that this relates to rewards, but it clearly says SAVED.

The 66 Books are the Complete Word of God

:
No - adding to God's complete Word of the Son (see Rev. 22.18,19 what will happen to you)

Obviously I believe in the Book of Mormon, but I also think that it is wrong to limit God to one book. Can he reveal more? Yes, he can. Does Revelation 22:18 & 19 say what you want it to? No, it doesn't. Those verses relate to the book of Revelation itself. Since the same is found in Deuteronomy, we see that by that same standard the entire New Testament must be invalid, as it 'adds' to the Mosaic Law.

Biblical tongues are languages only

:
No - teaching gibberish babble

Huh? Maybe I answered that wrong. I don't actually believe that 'tongues' as described in the Bible are as modern pentecostal churches teach. I believe the Biblical records says that the apostles spoke in other languages which were the languages of those listening, so that they could preach the gospel.

See, I said no because of this:

Do you accept that tongues are known by the speaker though may be unknown to the hearer if the latter does not know that particular language?

That defies the Biblical point of tongues.

Apostles Agree to Use the Meeting Place Finder

:
No - rejecting the agreement of the apostles

Well, I think I said no as obviously I am not one of your apostles.

Jesus went to Hades on Friday, Resurrected Sunday

:
No - rejecting when Jesus died on the cross

No, I do not reject that Jesus died on the cross. Okay - I reject the exact times that you have given.

Advanced Parties and Harbingers in Every Sphere

:
No - rejecting readiness so you can be antinomian

I don't believe in the standard Christian concept of the rapture.

God Uses Hell at Judgment Seat for Believers

:
No - rejecting the fire burning off the dross of false works so you can remain in your false works

I don't believe that God will put anyone into a 'lake of fire'.

Biblical locality sets the way for Christ's return

:
No - rejecting God's desire for the organization of the apostles and elders for the churches (i.e., localities of believers) to set the stage for the millennium

Yup. This question did not make any sense.

Size of the New City approximates the Total Saved

:
No - rejecting the informative purpose of the dimensions given for the new city (showing how few people are actually saved)

I answered no as I don't believe that the size of the city is an indication of how many (or few) people will be saved.

Scripture points to the New Earth as future Mars

:
No - rejecting the certainty of scientific findings that has proven earth will be burnt up in a couple billion years (though Christ will return sooner than that of course as it won't take billions of years for believers to reach sinlessness)

New earth = future Mars?


I have never heard that before, and I cartainly find no Biblical evidence of it.

[Churchwork]

Regarding the questions, if you disagreed with any part of them then you should answer No which you did but such No's are a direct rejection of Scripture because these truths flow from the Word.

Fact: the earth will be burnt up in a few billion years. Fact: the universe will continue on after that. Fact: many people will be transferred livingly from the old earth to the new earth. Fact: the new city is a physical city and resides on a physical new earth. Hence, Mars is that future new earth with the largest mountain in the solar system which John viewed from on that mountain in Revelation.

I think everything centers on whether Jesus is created or uncreated. If you worship a created being and not the uncreated God, then you worship a false Christ. Since the OT and the NT are in complete harmony in the 66 books, the complete Word of God, then adding words to the Word calling them the Word also is sinning adding to God's Word. These counterfeits can easily be exposed by comparing them to the 66 books to find how they don't agree, e.g. mormon-moron books.

Since the OT and NT both teach monotheism and not polytheistic moronism, at least accept the fact the god you worship is not the God of the Christian Bible. You would be worshiping Satan's replication. There were several popular cults that started up in the 19th century.

Bottom line: since the standard has long since been set between the OT and the NT of One Being God by revelation, and never was the idea introduced of multiple beings, then you would need to find something to support your claim. Since you have not been able to do so, know that you are living a lie. The verses you tried to use show the distinction of God's 3 Persons, but nothing is said about God being different beings or individuals. The position for thousands of years has been that God is One Being. The council of the Godhead of One Being agreed the Son would enter into creation to erect obedience to the Father to provide mankind a salvation and how to walk by the Spirit. We are in the redemptive design now!

An example might help you. Let's say you play a computer game, and the player character you choose is reflection of you. This is like the Godhead of the Father releasing the Son into the creation. However this analogy fails in that Jesus existed co-equally with the Father before, whereas you playing a computer game the player character you generated did not exist before.

The lake of fire is perdition (hell). It is an eternal separation from God. God describes it as such because He does not want you to go there. Because your soul can't be annihilated, if you remain a mormon-moron you will be sent there. Think of it as a dimension to keep you eternally away from the saints of God in the new city.

The Bible says Jesus is the great I AM as is the Father. The Godhead is so complicated, the only way for us to understand Him is to say that He is the Father, Son and Spirit, One Being. Rev. 22.1,3,4 says God and the Lamb have the one same face at the center of the new city, indicating one being.

1 Thess. 4.15-17 speaks of meeting the Lord in the air-this is rapture of Christians. You don't agree because you are not a Christian, that is, you have not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. God has given us eternal life at new birth. We are His new creation which can never be lossed, though we can lose rewards if we do not endure to the end in the fulness of salvation. Salvation is not just new birth, but it is overcoming in Christ, even unto returning with Christ to reign during the millennium.

Christians never say God is one Person. That's a false teaching called Modalism. Christians, my brothers and sisters, say God is One Being (not a Person) who is 3 Persons. This is the God of the Bible-the Trinity. This takes humility to accept the true God, who is so complex that we accept Him as Triune in His expression to us of His Being. Only Christians have the humility to accept this. This is how we stand apart. If you can't accept it, then you are without the humility in Christ to accept it.

These are the correct answers:

Trinity:
Yes - Uncreated One Being Trinity
Distinction of God's Three Persons:
Yes - 3 forms of God
Once-saved-always-saved:
Yes - God has infinite foreknowledge to know who to give His life to at new birth which can never be lost
The 66 Books are the Complete Word of God:
Yes - there is no 67th book
Biblical tongues are languages only:
Yes - tongues are languages
Apostles Agree to Use the Meeting Place Finder:
Yes - Apostles will use the Internet
Jesus went to Hades on Friday, Resurrected Sunday:
Yes - Jesus was raised on the 3rd day not after the third day
Advanced Parties and Harbingers in Every Sphere:
Yes - there are always those who "overcometh" first
God Uses Hell at Judgment Seat for Believers:
Yes - baptism by fire has a role to play at judgment seat
Biblical locality sets the way for Christ's return:
Yes - church unity and organization is very special to God
Size of the New City approximates the Total Saved:
Yes - the size of the new city is not arbitrary
Scripture points to the New Earth as future Mars:
Yes - after the saints are resurrected and raised (raptured), and some return with Christ, the universe still has billions and billions of years left.

I think the most important thing in all of this though is that you don't have a quickening in your spirit to accept the distinction of God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit as One Uncreated Substance and Being as has always been clearly laid out. The reason you don't have this regeneration of the spirit's inner man to be senstive to God's Triune Being is because you are ultimately hostile and independent from God, wishing to remain so for all eternity and are seeking a higher status in hell through evil mormonism.

[evan]

Regarding the questions, if you disagreed with any part of them then you should answer No which you did but such No's are a direct rejection of Scripture because these truths flow from the Word.

Okay, let's have a look at these, shall we?

Fact: the earth will be burnt up in a few billion years. Fact: the universe will continue on after that. Fact: many people will be transferred livingly from the old earth to the new earth. Fact: the new city is a physical city and resides on a physical new earth. Hence, Mars is that future new earth with the largest mountain in the solar system which John viewed from on that mountain in Revelation.

People are going to live on Mars???

Does anyone else here actually believe this??

I am not even going to bother to address this one! By all means, please demonstrate this from scripture.

I think everything centers on whether Jesus is created or uncreated. If you worship a created being and not the uncreated God, then you worship a false Christ. Since the OT and the NT are in complete harmony in the 66 books, the complete Word of God, then adding words to the Word calling them the Word also is sinning adding to God's Word. These counterfeits can easily be exposed by comparing them to the 66 books to find how they don't agree, e.g. mormon-moron books.

More insults!

1. Please provide scriptures that show that God is 'uncreated'
2. Revelation 22:18 says:

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the add that are written in this book:

Now, John writes "...the words of the prophecy of this book..."

and we compare with:

Revelation 1:1-3

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Now, John writes: "...they that hear the words of this prophecy..."

Now, you want to talk about coincidences?? It is clear that John regards the Book of Revelation to be the 'prophecy' that is spoken of in both instances. If we consider that the Book of Revelation was not a part of the Bible - in fact the 'Bible' as we have it today didn't even exist then! - and would not be for many many years, then it is easy to see, especially when Deuteronomy 4:2 is examined, that John's words referred solely to the Book of Revelation.

Now, when we consider:

Deuteronomy 4:2 -
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Now, in a strictly literaly sense, Jesus himself did exactly that. Indeed, the Mosaic law was completely removed! Obviously we know that this is what was intended to happen, but the fact remains. Likewise, God spoke to many prophets after Moses, and their words were added to the scriptures.

Since the OT and NT both teach monotheism and not polytheistic moronism, at least accept the fact the god you worship is not the God of the Christian Bible. You would be worshiping Satan's replication. There were several popular cults that started up in the 19th century.

I'm getting really sick of your self-righteous, insulting and downright ignorant behaviour. You really want to convince people that you represent God and that you know him? Then start acting like it!

Now, as to 'one' being:

We have passages from the OT such as:

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one Lord:
Isaiah 43:11 - I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no saviour.
Isaiah 45: 5, 6 & 21
Isaiah 44: 6 & 8 - Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Now, all these seem to say that there is 'one" God, at least, that is how it is used by many.

However, as it is often said, scripture interprets scripture. With that in mind, we read Mathhew 3:13-17, we clearly see Jesus in the water with John, the Father speaking from heaven, and the Holy Ghost descending. While some contend over the meaning of this with regards to God's nature, I find it pretty obvious.

Also, lets see Acts 7:54-57. Stephen sees: the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Two separate, physical individuals. Some may say that this language, 'standing on the right hand' is symbolic, but no. It is pretty clear.

Now, there are others verses, but that'll do for now. John 17 is where we find the answer to: "How can there be only 'one' God if these verses from the New Testament say 3?"

John 17:11 - 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Huh? 'We' (Christians) may be 'one' even as God and Jesus are 'one'?

John 17:21-22 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

And here is more of the same. Jesus clearly says that he is not 'one' with the Father except in harmony, as he says that we may all be 'one' with each other, as he and God are.

Thus, this verse explains the earlier verses from Deuteronomy & Isaiah and the verses in the New Testament. God is not 'one' being, nor 'one' substance, but is 'one' in will and purpose.

...if you remain a mormon-moron you will be sent there.

You truly do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ if you think this behaviour is acceptable.

The Bible says Jesus is the great I AM as is the Father. The Godhead is so complicated, the only way for us to understand Him is to say that He is the Father, Son and Spirit, One Being. Rev. 22.1,3,4 says God and the Lamb have the one same face at the center of the new city, indicating one being.

Revelation 22:1-4

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was theretree of life, which bare twelve the manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.


These verses do no explicitly say that God and Jesus are 'one' being. Rather, if you look it in the preceeding verse, you can see that it is Jesus speaking 21:6, I think. Now, I admit that it is difficult to know exactly what John is saying if you use these verses to define a doctrine about the physicality and nature of God. However, we see from John 17, that this simply is not the case.

1 Thess. 4.15-17 speaks of meeting the Lord in the air-this is rapture of Christians. You don't agree because you are not a Christian, that is, you have not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

I do not believe in the rapture as it is espoused by modern Christianity. Although it does indeed speak about rising to meet the Lord in the air, I do not believe that all the good people will be taken from the earth, and the unbelievers left to suffer. There is no Biblical support for that. Please provide some if there is.

God has given us eternal life at new birth. We are His new creation which can never be lossed, though we can lose rewards if we do not endure to the end in the fulness of salvation. Salvation is not just new birth, but it is overcoming in Christ, even unto returning with Christ to reign during the millennium.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This verse says that you will be saved if you endure to the end, not that you won't lose your reward.

[Churchwork]

Since the new city is a physical city, and the old earth will be burnt up, the physical new earth must be Mars since there is no other viable option.

Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, and no god exists all by itself, then we know with certainty the uncreated created. That uncreated is God of the Bible.

You are not saved because you worship a created ideology, not the uncreated God.

When the book of Revelation was written it was meant to be the final book of the books of the Bible, that is, the final of the 66 books just as Genesis is the first book of the Bible. 1, 2 and 3 John were written in the early 2nd century.

The books of the Bible that followed Deuteronomy do not add onto the Word, for they are in complete harmony as the Word. This is quite unlike adding mormon-moron books which do not agree with the Word.

Matt. 3.13-17 doesn't talk about different individuals, but the distinct Persons of the Godhead which is One Being: Father, Son, Spirit. One who is humble is a Christian in agreement with the monotheistic God of the OT and does not have a glaring contradiction of worshiping created being(s).

In John 17 the oneness spoken of is that of complete harmony in obedience. Just as Jesus was completely obedient to the Father, so may Christians be one. This does not mean Jesus is another being, for He still remains the same monotheistic God in the Triune Being with the Father and the Spirit of same substance.

Since the Father is spirit, you can't see Him, so you won't be able to see the Son at His Father's right hand. But you will be able to see Jesus one day if you get saved, by seeing the One face of the Father and the Son as said in Rev. 22 because God is One personal Being. God is not a Person, but Three Persons: He reveals Himself in 3 forms that existed in eternity past: Father, Son, Spirit.

The reason why Jesus is able to surpass all of creation in obedience to God is because Jesus is God Who is of one substance with the Father and the Spirit in the Being of the Godhead. Before the foundations of the world, the Father and the Son and the Spirit held council that the Son would be the one to enter into creation, the Spirit would indwell and our prayers would be taken to the Father.

The rapture of Christianity says that overcomer believers "alive" are raptured before the tribulation, while the non-overcomer believers alive at the time will pass through the tribulation for they were not yet ready to be received. This is shown in Matt. 24.40-41,42; Rev. 3.10; Luke 21.36. 1 Thess. 4.15-17 talks about those who are "alive" and "left" who were not "taken" (Matt. 24.40) before the Trib. The overcomer believers will return with Christ to reign on earth in the millennium with a rod of iron. Non-overcomer believers will lose the reward of reigning and be disciplined and made ready in outer darkness (which has no fire or furnace about it), outside the light of rewards of reigning with Christ during the 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years all believers resurrected will enter into the new city. The good nations will be transferred livingly into the millennial kingdom, and after the 1000 years, rewards will be done away with in the new city and new earth.

Matt. 24.13 “Endureth to the end”—Always waiting, always looking for the Lord. The word “saved” here is different in meaning from a being saved in order to receive eternal life.

Since Matt. 24.4-31 is referencing the Jews and not Christians, this salvation is the enduring of the people of Israel in the time of Jacob's trouble under great persecution. If you don't know the Word of God well enough, you won't be able to delineate this fact. Christians are spoken of in Matt. 24.32-Matt. 25.30, and the nations are dealt with in Matt. 25.31-46.

For Christians, there is salvation at new birth, salvation in overcoming, and salvation of the millennium.

The reason you are not saved is because you admittedly worship a created being, which you call God and Father and Son, but this Son you worship is a false Christ because he is a created being, and not the uncreated Jesus. Similarly, the Father you worship is a created being you said is not uncreated. So hell is for you. This is the evidence which proves you are hellbound and in need of authentic salvation. My prayers go out to you that you may see this is the case.

Let us be grateful to God for the chosen nation of Israel, the first nation of people that God revealed Himself to monotheistically. Polytheism of the mor(m)on is incompatible with monotheistic Christianity. Mor(m)ons don't get embarrassed by their sinful and diabolical disagreement with monotheism.

[evan]

Since the new city is a physical city, and the old earth will be burnt up, the physical new earth must be Mars since there is no other viable option.

That is ridiculous. You have shown no scriptural support, only mindless repetition.

You are guilty of:

Insulting others - 2 points

and failing in these two rules:

(i) Love one another and treat others as you would like to be treated,

6. When discussing with others, respond directly, specifically and courteously, otherwise your thought is not conducive for fellowship and discussion. After a point is made and responded to, the former shows the latter's misunderstanding with evidence, but the latter just keeps repeating his same old misunderstanding or false teaching without support even though the burden of the proof is on him now. The petty self, belligerency and obstinacy of repetitive self-declarations expose the weakness of an argument in trying to deflect and circumvent the issue, especially by being coy. When someone does this, they are really pointing to themselves as the center and not God.

Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, and no god exists all by itself, then we know with certainty the uncreated created. That uncreated is God of the Bible.

That makes no sense. You provide neither scriptural proof, nor sound logic.

If nothing in nature happens by itself, then everything has a cause.

No God exists by itself? That's your argument for the Trinity??

You are not saved because you worship a created ideology, not the uncreated God.

And YOU are not saved because you do not obey God.

When the book of Revelation was written it was meant to be the final book of the books of the Bible, that is, the final of the 66 books just as Genesis is the first book of the Bible. 1, 2 and 3 John were written in the early 2nd century.

Huh? Please provide proof.

How do you know that Revelation was "meant" to be the final book? Since you claim that John 1, 2 and 3 were written after Revelation, how can it be the final book?

Genesis is the first book because it is the first words of scripture that we have! It describes the creation of the earth. Your words prove nothing!

The books of the Bible that followed Deuteronomy do not add onto the Word, for they are in complete harmony as the Word. This is quite unlike adding mormon-moron books which do not agree with the Word.

Guilty:

Insulting others - 2 points

and failing in this rule:

(i) Love one another and treat others as you would like to be treated,

Taken literally, the New Testament is a direct violation of Deuteronomy 4:2. You have completely failed to address this. People who are not blinded see that both Deuteronomy and Revelation 22:18 contain injunctions against people altering the commandments given to Moses and the Book of Revelation. John obviously never intended his words to be applied to the whole Bible.

You have offered no evidence in support of your claim. Again.

Matt. 3.13-17 doesn't talk about different individuals, but the distinct Persons of the Godhead which is One Being: Father, Son, Spirit. One who is humble is a Christian in agreement with the monotheistic God of the OT and does not have a glaring contradiction of worshiping created being(s).

In John 17 the oneness spoken of is that of complete harmony in obedience. Just as Jesus was completely obedient to the Father, so may Christians be one. This does not mean Jesus is another being, for He still remains the same monotheistic God in the Triune Being with the Father and the Spirit of same substance.

So, please provide scriptural evidence of

a) one being
b) one substance

Until you do, you fail to address the glaring holes in your theology that clearly state that the 'oneness' spoken of is of purpose and will.

Jesus says that he and the Father are 'one', and Christians may be 'one. You claim that it means that "Just as Jesus was completely obedient to the Father, so may Christians be one", which means that Christians can be obedient to who? other Christians?

That is what your words say. What Jesus says is that Christians can be 'one' in their relationship with God and each other. Just as God and Jesus are 'one', so can Christians be 'one'. This explains how there can be 2 Gods (Jesus and the Father) and yet still be 'one'.

Since the Father is spirit, you can't see Him, so you won't be able to see the Son at His Father's right hand. But you will be able to see Jesus one day if you get saved, by seeing the One face of the Father and the Son as said in Rev. 22 because God is One personal Being. God is not a Person, but Three Persons: He reveals Himself in 3 forms that existed in eternity past: Father, Son, Spirit.

Stephen saw Jesus are the right hand of God. You seem to say that that didn't happen.

Your use of Revelation 22 is wrong.

Revelation 3:12 - Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 14:1- And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

Thus we see that the name is the Father's name, and the Father and the Son are clearly shown to be separate.

The reason why Jesus is able to surpass all of creation in obedience to God is because Jesus is God Who is of one substance with the Father and the Spirit in the Being of the Godhead. Before the foundations of the world, the Father and the Son and the Spirit held council that the Son would be the one to enter into creation, the Spirit would indwell and our prayers would be taken to the Father.

The reason why Jesis is able to surpass all creation in obedience to God is because he was obedient! It is true that he was more than other mortals, but he was still a man.

The rapture of Christianity says that overcomer believers "alive" are raptured before the tribulation, while the non-overcomer believers alive at the time will pass through the tribulation for they were not yet ready to be received. This is shown in Matt. 24.40-41,42; Rev. 3.10; Luke 21.36. 1 Thess. 4.15-17 talks about those who are "alive" and "left" who were not "taken" (Matt. 24.40) before the Trib. The overcomer believers will return with Christ to reign on earth in the millennium with a rod of iron. Non-overcomer believers will lose the reward of reigning and be disciplined and made ready in outer darkness (which has no fire or furnace about it), outside the light of rewards of reigning with Christ during the 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years all believers resurrected will enter into the new city. The good nations will be transferred livingly into the millennial kingdom, and after the 1000 years, rewards will be done away with in the new city and new earth.

The scriptures that you have provided do not explain the doctrine of the rapture. When Christ returns to earth, as the scriptures call it "the coming of the Son of man", it will be to usher in the millenium. So you think that when Christ returns he will go away again?

Luke 21:
25 ¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

and

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You can see from these scriptures that the saints will be 'caught up' when the Lord returns. The 'tribulation' that is commonly being tossed around is not some future event. It is NOW.

Matt. 24.13 “Endureth to the end”—Always waiting, always looking for the Lord. The word “saved” here is different in meaning from a being saved in order to receive eternal life.

Really? So, in your mind 'saved' = 'reward', huh? How convenient. Too bad that's not what it says.

Since Matt. 24.4-31 is referencing the Jews and not Christians, this salvation is the enduring of the people of Israel in the time of Jacob's trouble under great persecution. If you don't know the Word of God well enough, you won't be able to delineate this fact. Christians are spoken of in Matt. 24.32-Matt. 25.30, and the nations are dealt with in Matt. 25.31-46.

You are using the word 'delineate' incorrectly. You should probably have used 'ascertain'.

Jesus is not referencing the Jews alone. He is referencing the people of Jerusalem, both Christian and Jew. If you knew the word of God well enough, you'd be able to ascertain this for yourself.

This is the evidence which proves you are hellbound and in need of authentic salvation. My prayers go out to you that you may see this is the case.

That's not evidence!

More "mindless repetition"

[Churchwork]

It is quite righteous, holy and logical to say since nothing in nature happens all by itself, therefore, the uncreated created, since the created thing can not have been the ultimate cause. The reason I am able to obey God is because He has given me His life. There is only one uncreated being, and He is the Trinity. Remember, this makes no sense to you because your spirit is dead to God: it has not been quickened by the Holy Spirit.

1,2,3 John were written as late as AD 120 and as early as AD 85. This poses no problems. Job was written before Genesis some believe.

Genesis clearly shows the beginning and eternity past, while Revelation clearly shows us the end of the dispensation of grace, then the millennial kingdom (Rev. 20.2-7), and the new city in the new earth in chapter 21 in eternity future. Scholars are not in contention about this. The 1000 years is reserved for the 3rd last chapter of the Bible, and it is a millennial peace, where the lamb and lion lay down together. It is not the time of wars and rumors of wars. Your conscience should convict you on this.

Following Deut. 4.2 we do not see an adding to the Word of God, but the filling up the law and the harmony of the Scriptures. There was no Scripture that added something contrary. The Bible prophecies the coming Christ in the OT to replace the sacrificial system. All that preceded Deut. 4.2 should not be changed, just as nothing prior to Rev. 22.18,19 should be changed. What you are trying to be is a legalist, that is to say, so strict in your interpretation, you are being unethical and constricting yourself. John obviously intended Revelation to be the last book of the Bible given such references of the Tribulation, Millennium and New City, just as Moses intended Genesis to be the first.

The evidence God gives of His being uncreated is that He says look at the mountains and the stars to know that nothing in nature happens all by itself. Therefore, know the uncreated is the cause who is the Trinity. So you can see it is impossible for God to be different beings.

Seeing Jesus at the right hand of the Father is possible, but it is not a seeing the Father, for the Father is spirit, but the Son is made visible to us. Jesus said no one has seen the Father, therefore, Stephen saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father, but not actually saw the Father.

In the verses you supply of the Father and the Son, you show a distinction of their Persons, but not different beings. This is how you always fail.

The reason why Jesus was obedient to the Father was because He is God. Only God is perfectly obedient to God. Only God is the perfect sacrifice. This is His redemptive design which you so far reject. Entering into creation the Son becomes fully man and was already fully God. To be the perfect sacrifice, he must become fully man to align himself perfectly with His creation. If he comes back as gold plates, He does not align Himself with man made in His image.

Jesus will not go away again when He returns. When the saints are raptured, He meets them in the air, then returns with the overcomer believers. This is most wonderful.

The sin of your belief of rejecting the Tribulation to come is to blunt the most solemn warning at the end of this age which nuclear weapons and a battle over oil in the middle east will be a central theme, and 1/3 of the people of the earth will die (Rev. 9.18). 200 million machines will congregate in battle (v.16). By blunting this most solemn warning, your conscience becomes more and more dull, showing you don't know the real condition of things and have no sensitivity to the Holy Spirit.

Endureth to the end in the passage in Matt. 24 is speaking regarding the Jews as pertaining to Jacob's troubles. God promises He will save Israel at His return, so praise be to God He saves those Jews who endureth to the end.

Christians also have their own salvation which is unto rewards to "overcometh" as spoken of Rev. 2 & 3 in the church age. In fact, any Jew who is saved to the end of the Tribulation, he himself must still believe in Jesus to be saved individually in the millennial kingdom. God transfers the good nations in the millennium, first and foremost Israel, because Israel will be the center of all nations from which Christ will reign. It is a most beautiful thing! Obviously, Christ is not reigning with rod of iron now (mentioned 3 times in the book of Revelation).

Delineate and ascertain that Matt. 24.4-31 is speaking specifically regarding the Jews as clearly different than towards Christians in Matt. 24.32-25.30. There are many proofs for this.

Having gained an understanding of rapture, we will now proceed with Matthew 24 and 25. These two chapters deal with prophecies concerning (1) the Jews, (2) the church, and (3) the Gentiles. Aside from what is found in the book of Revelation, these two chapters contain the most significant prophecies for our present age. Whereas the book of Revelation gives details, the Gospel of Matthew treats only of principles. These two chapters are not easy to read. Due to a difference in background, various students of the Bible advocate different interpretations on these chapters. In general, there are three varied schools of thought:

(a) that all which is prophesied here pertains to the church, as advocated by Benjamin Newton; (b) that all in these chapters is related to the Jews, as championed by John Nelson Darby and C. I. Scofield; and (c) that some of the material in these two chapters concerns the church, as we maintain. The reason for such differences lies in one’s understanding of who or what the disciples stand for: whether (a) the disciples represent the church; (b) the disciples symbolize the Jews; or (c) the disciples signify the Jewish remnant as well as the pillars of the church.

How to divide these two chapters is of utmost importance, else we will be confused by the first two schools.

Let us retrace our steps and once again review the background for these two chapters, as furnished for the reader of this Gospel in chapters 21 to 23. As recorded in 21.43 the Lord prophesies that the kingdom of God will be taken away from the Jews. In 22.21 we see that He charges the Jews to be submissive to the Gentile power. And in 23 we observe Him chiding the Pharisees. The “house” in 23.38 is the same as the “temple” in 24.1. There it should be stated as “my Father’s house”—but it has come to be termed “your house”. All this indicates that the Lord has clearly rejected the children of Israel. Such, then, is the background.

Before the Lord are two classes of people: (1) the rejected Jews, and (2) a nation that can bear fruits (21.43). In this connection, therefore, the disciples may represent (a) the Jewish remnant, and (b) the called out ones.

Accordingly, we have a combination of the Jews and the church. It is highly important for us to find out which section relates to the Jews and which relates to the church. In our view (and in the view of others too, such as D. M. Panton who felt that 24.31 is a distinctive line of demarcation), 24.1-31 pertains to the Jews, while 24.32-25.46 pertains to the church. This division is based on internal as well as external evidences, as follows.

A. 24.1-31 concerns the Jews, since everything here is literally interpreted; but 24.32-25.46 concerns the church since everything there is spiritually interpreted. For example, “winter” in verse 20 is literal since it is in actual fact a difficult thing to flee in the winter (“sabbath” too is literal); “summer” in verse 32, however, is to be spiritually interpreted since it points to the soon coming of the kingdom (while the “fig tree” refers to the nation of Israel). Or as another example, in verse 26 “the inner chambers” must be interpreted literally, whereas in verse 43 “the house” is to be interpreted spiritually. Hence what concerns the Jews is to be literally interpreted; but what concerns the church is to be spiritually interpreted (see Matt. 13.11-13).

B. The part before 24.31 is full of Jewish background, as is made clear by the usage of such terms as “the holy place” (v.15), “in Judea” (v.16), and “sabbath” (v.20); but the part after 24.31 is plainly without any localized restriction in its terminology.

C. The things mentioned before 24.31 are physical in nature, whereas all those things mentioned afterwards are moral in character. For instance, the nations, the mothers with children, and the children mentioned in the first part are all physical or literal in meaning; yet the virgins, the servants and the householder, and the goats and the sheep cited in chapter 25 have moral implications about them. In addition, “go . . . forth” in 24.26 and “went forth” in 25.1 are different in character, with the former being literal and the latter being moral in their implications.

D. Before 24.31 there is no moral demand included; what is required is to flee. But after 24.31 there are moral demands presented, such as watch, be ready, and so forth—which actions are the responsibilities of the saints at the end time.

E. Since the Jews are still expecting the Messiah, there are false Christs being mentioned before 24.31; but there is no word about false Christs after 24.31, because the latter part is addressed to the church.

To sum up, then, Matthew 24.4-31 speaks to the Jews; Matthew 24.32-25.30 speaks to the church; and Matthew 25.31-46 speaks to the church about the Gentiles. Perhaps an outline of this would be helpful, as follows:


The reason you are going to hell is because you admit you worship a created being, which is actually just an idol in your mind above the uncreated God. For millennia the Jews and the Christians have only ever worshiped the uncreated God, nothing about a created being.

p.s. evan, the infractions you received were most appropriate, which you could find nothing wrong with.

[evan]

It is quite righteous, holy and logical to say since nothing in nature happens all by itself, therefore, the uncreated created, since the created thing can not have been the ultimate cause. The reason I am able to obey God is because He has given me His life. There is only one uncreated being, and He is the Trinity. Remember, this makes no sense to you because your spirit is dead to God: it has not been quickened by the Holy Spirit.

No, it makes no sense because it is not true. You do not obey God, as God teaches that we are to love each other, and your words clearly show that this is not the case. Thus we clearly see that you love your self more than God.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

1,2,3 John were written as late as AD 120 and as early as AD 85. This poses no problems. Job was written before Genesis some believe.

Since the Book of Revelation was written AD 90 thereabouts, it is clearly not intended to be the last book, or it would have been. Whilst it is a good placet o finish the Biblical record, as I have pointed out, John clearly intended the the passage in Revelation 22:18-19 to apply to the Book of Revelation specifically. You have failed to address this, as I have clearly shown from scripture.

Genesis clearly shows the beginning and eternity past, while Revelation clearly shows us the end of the dispensation of grace, then the millennial kingdom (Rev. 20.2-7), and the new city in the new earth in chapter 21 in eternity future. Scholars are not in contention about this. The 1000 years is reserved for the 3rd last chapter of the Bible, and it is a millennial peace, where the lamb and lion lay down together. It is not the time of wars and rumors of wars. Your conscience should convict you on this.

As great as the is, Genesis is clearly the first of the Biblical record, despite whatever speculations you offer about the book of Job. However, that same rational, whilst appropriate in placing the Book of Revelation at the end, is clearly not appropriate given the fact that

a) It ISN'T the last book written
and
b) John clearly states that the Book of Revelation constitutes the 'prophecy' he speaks of, thus limiting Revelation 22:18-19 to that specific book.

Following Deut. 4.2 we do not see an adding to the Word of God, but the filling up the law and the harmony of the Scriptures. There was no Scripture that added something contrary. The Bible prophecies the coming Christ in the OT to replace the sacrificial system. All that preceded Deut. 4.2 should not be changed, just as nothing prior to Rev. 22.18,19 should be changed. What you are trying to be is a legalist, that is to say, so strict in your interpretation, you are being unethical and constricting yourself. John obviously intended Revelation to be the last book of the Bible given such references of the Tribulation, Millennium and New City, just as Moses intended Genesis to be the first.

Please provide evidence from scripture that the Bible prophesied that Jesus would replace the sacrificial system of the OT.

The evidence God gives of His being uncreated is that He says look at the mountains and the stars to know that nothing in nature happens all by itself. Therefore, know the uncreated is the cause who is the Trinity. So you can see it is impossible for God to be different beings.

That is terrible logic, and it doesn't make sense! I figure that that doesn't bother you, as long as it fits in with your beliefs. Your 'logic' says nothing about how God cannot be different beings.

Seeing Jesus at the right hand of the Father is possible, but it is not a seeing the Father, for the Father is spirit, but the Son is made visible to us. Jesus said no one has seen the Father, therefore, Stephen saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father, but not actually saw the Father.

I am aware of scriptures which people claim say that no one can see God. Let us examine some of this:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This seems pretty straightforward.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Now, we see that John includes "...he which is of God...", which still seems in harmony with only Jesus seeing God.

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Still straightforward.

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Now John says that those who do evil have not seen God. However, this may be relating to Jesus, as 'that which is good' that we should follow. However, I see John's use of words as saying that those who do good are 'of God', which is also found in John 6:46.

Deuteronomy 33:1 And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.

Moses here is referred to as a 'man of God'.

1 Kings 17:18 And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?

And here Elijah is referred to as a 'man of God'.

In 3 John 1:11, John is writing about a wicked man who is not of God.

3 John 1:9-10 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Whilst John could correctly be interpreted as using Jesus as the example of 'that which is good', we also see that he says that 'he that doeth evil' hasn't seen God, and that it is the evil acts that are preventing this. This implies that a man who does good can indeed see God. It is the wicked who are prevented from seeing God.

In the verses you supply of the Father and the Son, you show a distinction of their Persons, but not different beings. This is how you always fail.

The 'distinction of their Persons' is showing the different beings. You present no evidence to the contrary, yet again.

Jesus himself clearly sets out how he and the Father are one in John 17. Whilst you very very briefly addressed that issue with opinion, and you present no other evidence to show that Jesus and GOd are different beings, apart from one verse in Revelation that I have shown to be speaking about Jesus alone.

The reason why Jesus was obedient to the Father was because He is God. Only God is perfectly obedient to God. Only God is the perfect sacrifice. This is His redemptive design which you so far reject. Entering into creation the Son becomes fully man and was already fully God. To be the perfect sacrifice, he must become fully man to align himself perfectly with His creation. If he comes back as gold plates, He does not align Himself with man made in His image.

Comes back as gold plates??? Huh?? What are you talking about??

Jesus will not go away again when He returns. When the saints are raptured, He meets them in the air, then returns with the overcomer believers. This is most wonderful.

You haven't addressed the scriptures that I offered.

The sin of your belief of rejecting the Tribulation to come is to blunt the most solemn warning at the end of this age which nuclear weapons and a battle over oil in the middle east will be a central theme, and 1/3 of the people of the earth will die (Rev. 9.18). 200 million machines will congregate in battle (v.16). By blunting this most solemn warning, your conscience becomes more and more dull, showing you don't know the real condition of things and have no sensitivity to the Holy Spirit.

You seem to think that just because a person believes certain doctrines, that is enough to produce salvation and faith. You fail to see that this is not correct, I am not sure why. However, it is faith in Jesus Christ as Saviour that is the basis of faith, and you have shown no evidence that God does not save those who believe that God is 'uncreated'.

Furthermore, you appear to claim that because I don't believe in the Tribulation, which is not Biblically supported (and for which you give no scriptural support), I am 'dull' to the Holy Ghost.

You give no scriptual support for this, except offering some scriptures to 'back-up' your beliefs and then stating "If you don't believe this you have no sensitivity to the Holy Ghost".

Endureth to the end in the passage in Matt. 24 is speaking regarding the Jews as pertaining to Jacob's troubles. God promises He will save Israel at His return, so praise be to God He saves those Jews who endureth to the end.

Is that so? Then why was Jesus speaking to his disciples, who were Christians, when he told them that those who endure would be saved?

I see now that you have changed your topic. Before you were claiming that 'saved' int his verse means 'rewards', and now you claim that Jesus was actually speaking to the Jews.

Delineate and ascertain that Matt. 24.4-31 is speaking specifically regarding the Jews as clearly different than towards Christians in Matt. 24.32-25.30. There are many proofs for this.

Again you use the word 'delineate'. The dictionary defines it as:

1. to trace the outline of; sketch or trace in outline; represent pictorially: He delineated the state of Texas on the map with a red pencil.

2. to portray in words; describe or outline with precision: In her speech she delineated the city plan with great care.

Matthew 24:4-31 is clearly spoken to his disciples, who were Christian.

Matthew 24:3 [i]And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?[i/]

This was not a public comment. Whilst Jesus was speaking about events that would include the Jews, he also stated:

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

and

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I don't know who you copied that text about Matthew 24 from, but it is clearly incorrect in its assumptions.

Yes, Jesus speaks of the Jews and events in verses 1-31. However, he is speaking to his disciples, not the general public. And yes, he is speaking to his disciples from 32 onwards, and he includes much spiritual counsel. But your belief that he is speaking to the Jews and then to the Christians is wrong. Why? Because the whole time he is speaking to his disciples! There is no mention of verses 1-31 restricted to the Jews, andthen 32 onwards to Christians.

p.s. evan, the infractions you received were most appropriate, which you could find nothing wrong with.

I found them to be completely wrong. I find that you should no longer be allowed to post here, considering that you have broken so many just in your postings with me. Yet you flagrantly flout your own rules and apply them to others whom you disagree with, all the while insulting my faith, and me personally.

Reason:
-------
Signature Rule Violation

Repetitive Mindless Accusations - Violating Board Etiquette #6.

Since Christianity has never found, nor do you provide any evidence for your idea in the Bible, nor do you even try to show it, by self-declarations of God being created, know that you are like Satan with such proclamations and accusations against Christians.

You're a bad person and can't repent because John 3.18 says you are already condemned. How sad for you.

Since you never offered the chance for me to explain my statements, which I have repeatedly offered you (and you rarely offer anything other than opinion), and since you yourself constantly break your own rules, I find your use of infractions to be highly hypocritical.

Reason:
-------
Signature Rule Violation

Repeating self-declarations - Violating Board Etiquette #6.

Since you still have no evidence for Christianity being wrong that God is uncreated, and you find no support for your idea in the Bible, know that you are sinning.

Don't be a clanging bell.

[Churchwork]

evan,

Don't accuse that I don't love you, for I do love you. And I tell you the truth because I don't want you to go to hell. I would not wish this on my worse enemy. Presently you are on the course for hell because you have not accepted the uncreated Jesus as your Savior, but prefer to believe in a created concoction as taught by the cult of mormonism. Due to your selfishness, you have done this to yourself, willingly accepted their lie and the lie of one man Joseph Smith who rejected Christ and Christianity. So you are without the love of the Lord in your life, because you reject Jesus as the 2nd Person in the Trinity as being uncreated. And so, John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. Because you do not have the love of the Lord, you seek to alter His loving Word by trying to make the Father, the Son and Spirit created separate beings instead of the One and Only Uncreated Triune Being. At least realize you are not Christian as Christianity has long since been conveyed in the 66 books of the Bible.

The book of Revelation was written AD 95/96 which is clearly the last book of the Bible intended since it speaks of eternity future in the new city. Rev. 22.18,19 as part of the summary book of the Bible sums up any alterations one may make in all of the 66 books of the Bible. As Gen. 1 gives us eternity past, Rev. 21 gives us eternity future. Rev. 22 gives us the last warning. Gen. 3 gives us the details of Gen. 2. Rev. 12 to 19 give us the details of Rev. 6 to 11. Rev. 2 & 3 are the church age, concurrent with Rev. 6. Rev. 4 is the picture of the universe from heaven. Rev. 5 is Lamb slain on the cross along with the first seal which shows the arrow has been shot out of the bow giving Satan a deadly wound at the cross. God seals the 66 books by the number 66 too. 6 is the number of Satan, but also the number of man because man loves Satan's ways, and the redemptive design separates these two in the 66 books. Mormons and the Roman Church and the Eastern Church seek to add books to the 66 books of God's Word. God will judge you for this sin according to Rev. 22.18,19. The millennial kingdom (Rev. 20) separates the dispensation of grace from eternity future. The 1000 years is a transition period when Christ reigns on earth before the new city and new earth commences. God works not in jerky motions, but flows from one dispensation to the next.

Revelation is the last book written for the 66 books of the Bible-the complete Word of God (John 1.1). Rev. 22.18,19 not only involves this book of Revelation, but may be extended to all the books of the Bible because Revelation sums up all the books of the Bible.

Messiah was to die as a sacrifice for sin, vicarious sacrifice (Is. 53.5,6,8,10,11,12; John 1.29, 11.49-52, Acts 10.43, 13.38,39, Rom. 5.6,8). In Matt. 5, Jesus fills up the law so we no longer live by the law, but by the Spirit of the law indwelling for the veil is now rent. Take a look at Matt. 5.17 where Jesus came to "fulfill them," that is, the law and the writings of the prophets. He did not abolish the law, but came to fill it up. For example, verse 21 says you should not murder, but then Jesus said "if you are angry with someone, you are subject to judgment". The sacrifices are shadows of the work of the cross. The blood is sprinkled on the altar which represents the cross where the precious blood was spilt. We do not continue to slaughter animals as sacrifices for Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. Have you not the faith to believe the perfect sacrifice to be uncreated? I am saved by His paying the eternal price for the forgiveness of my sins because He is uncreated and died for me which I have accepted freely and can never be lost, but you don't have this eternal blessing because you worship a facsimile which you make a created being in your selfish image. This is your great sin and why you will be eternally separated from God when you are judged at Great White Throne and cast into the lake of fire. This is not love that you want this.

God cannot be different beings because then you have created beings and a God that is impersonal social construct instead a personal singular Triune Being that has always existed. My God has always existed who created you and me, so He trumps your god always because you admit your god is created. Since nothing in nature happens all by itself and nothing in the supernatural happens all by itself, then the ultimate creator cannot himself be created, because if he was, then you would have to ask who created him. And to keep asking this question of who created who is to say there is an eternity of the past of gods creating gods, but this is not possible because that would mean you had an eternity of the past to be sinless, yet you still sin. The exponential progression in our conscience these past 6000 years shows it will not take much longer to reach sinlessness in the saved, so one knows without a doubt there was not an eternity of the past of causes and effects for you to attain sinlessness, but you were created by the uncreated creator. However, we both know your spirit is dead to God and your conscience can't accept this simple reasoning because you are hellbound and don't want to be saved.

The one who is capable of doing good is the man who has accepted the uncreated Savior Jesus Christ. A man who does good by the "good self" whilst still rejecting Jesus as being uncreated and as the personal Savior in the Trinity is a man still hostile and separated from God. You are a person who still is hostile to God. You can't see God, nor will God reveal Himself to you until you accepted Jesus as being uncreated because your personal problem is rejecting the uncreatedness of God. Different people have their different things they use to reject God, but yours is that you reject Him being uncreated; therefore, all you have is hell which is a blessing to Christians to keep you eternally separated from us because you admit to us now you never want to be saved as we are saved. We will no longer shed a tear for you in the new city.

The distinctions of the 3 Persons are distinctions, nothing about separate beings; that is why Christianity has always believed in the distinct Persons of the Godhead and never anything about different beings. Christianity is monotheistic, not polytheistic or tritheistic. Your cult comes along 1800 years and wants to teach polytheism, but this is overassuming, since the humility of reading the Bible is not to read more than what is there, so since you can't find anything about the Holy Spirit being a created being or Christ Jesus being another created being and the Father yet another created being, know that you create this false teaching because you do the work of the devil. My prayer for you is that you do not need to be a pawn of Satan, but God can deliver you from this demonic influence of moronical mormonism.

you present no other evidence to show that Jesus and GOd are different beings, apart from one verse in Revelation that I have shown to be speaking about Jesus alone.

I have never said God the Father and God the Son are different beings and of course there is no such evidence for this idea of Satan. God the Father and God the Son are One Being in the Trinity. Rev. 22.1,3,4 talk about God the Father and the Lamb, which is Jesus, having one face as one Being. I love these verses in the last chapter of the last book of the Bible that sum up the Word of God and give the last warning which sadly you fail to heed. You won't be with us in the new city where God and the Lamb with be at the center.

The 1000 years is mentioned 6 times in Rev. 20.2-7 and in verse 3 it says the nations will no longer be deceived, that is, no longer war as they do now. Since they still war they are still deceived which means we are not in the 1000 years-the millennial kingdom.

It is sad when someone tries to interpret the Bible with their head without the Holy Spirit in their spirit. The Bible tells us we shall know them by their fruit. I know you by your false fruit by your claiming this time now, which included Hitler, Stalin and Polpot as a millennial peace. The time we are in now is the dispensation of grace of the mystery age of the church and is detailed in Rev. 2 & 3 as well as the 6 seals of Rev. 6, starting with when Jesus died on the cross in Rev. 5 and the 1st seal. Salvation to enter new birth will bring forth fruit, in works as well as correct teaching. Since you have false teaching and false works, I know you are not saved and the Holy Spirit shows the ultimate reason, because you reject the uncreatedness of the Trinity and prefer to worship a created being Satan who convinces you to believe in polytheism and impersonal social god. Only the uncreated God is all-knowing, all-seeing, and omni-present. No created being has this power.

Matt. 24.13 says in context regarding the Jewish remnant, "he that shall endure unto the end" referring to Israel. Who is he? He is of Israel who preaches "this gospel of the kingdom" which "shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (v. 14). It is Israel that is a witness unto all the nations by its troubles it goes through as the world comes against them. Christians do not come against Israel, but love the little brother.

There are both rewards for Christians as well as Jewish remnant to be the center of all nations. Matt. 24.13 is speaking specifically of the Jewish remnant because Matt. 24.4-31 is referring to Israel, just as Matt. 24.32ff is referring to Christians (the body of Christ: the church). The apostles were both Christians as well as a Jewish remnant for they were all Jews. Rewards for believers to endure, to be watchful, prayerful, keep the word of His patience and prayerful are found in Matt. 24.42, Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36 and to keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7. Don't be confused by these two treatments. In total, God treats three main groups: Jews, Gentiles (or nations) and Christians accordingly. The gentiles will be divided between the good nations and bad nations. The latter will take the mark of the beast and be destroyed. Nothing about mormon-morons other than to say there would be those who worship false Christs in polytheism and worshiping created beings like Satan. Other cults do the same and have no faith to believe in the uncreatedness of God. This is a sure sign of being bound for perdition.

Matt. 24.4-31 The reasons were given which you did not respond to how they are words and references to Israel not Christians. Please refer to these explanations again.

Since the explanations I gave for your Infractions you did not respond to specifically as inaccurate, they stand, and since you can not say the same of me other than by self-declarations on your part, your response is considered of no account. This is the reasonable thing to do to deal with your hostility. The violations of yours stand....

Signature Rule Violation

Repetitive Mindless Accusations - Violating Board Etiquette #6.

Since Christianity has never found, nor do you provide any evidence for your idea in the Bible, nor do you even try to show it, by self-declarations of God being created, know that you are like Satan with such proclamations and accusations against Christians.

You're a bad person and can't repent because John 3.18 says you are already condemned. How sad for you.

Reason:
-------
Signature Rule Violation

Repeating self-declarations - Violating Board Etiquette #6.

Since you still have no evidence for Christianity being wrong that God is uncreated, and you find no support for your idea in the Bible, know that you are sinning.

Don't be a clanging bell.

The problems in Christendom have been foretold in Rev. 2 & 3. This in no way poses a problem though because it is the Trinity that gives us this information to protect us to help us not slip up, and it is the Trinity that is the only Uncreated Being that has ever existed that has this foreknowledge to warn us about making mistakes in the Church so as not to be deceived by the unsaved tares who operate in the sphere of the kingdom posing as us Christians.

Praise the Lord!

[Churchwork]

In doing all that I can do relying on the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to help you evan, consider these questions honestly with yourself:

1) Instead of shutting your mind down for Satan, why don't you ask yourself what caused your god and who caused the god who caused that god and the god that caused that god? So on and on.

2) You would come to the conclusion that there is a never ending chain of gods causing gods in your kingdom in the eternity of the past, but how can this be? And can it be disproven? If it can then it is from Satan and the independency of the fallen man especially considering you have no evidence for such an idea in your attempt to claim 1800 years later a diabolically opposite teaching to Christianity, just as Mohammed came up with a diabolically opposite teaching to Christianity over 600 years later. Other cults like JW's and Christian Science came around at the same time as moronical mormonism. These cults of course have no basis and are merely independent methods and means to reject God of the Bible. There were quite a few cults that cropped up in the 19th century. Joseph Smith is certainly where the rich man is in the bad side of hades waiting to be resurrected to GWT and cast into hell. There are over 40,000 adherents in the world. It's fascinating all the different ways man comes up with to reject God, but it will not save him one iota.

3) Christians agree before being saved we were sinners and no man is without sin. All which is born of the flesh is flesh. Even as believers we are often selfish and even sin, but to much less degree onwards towards being perfected for the new city which takes some time to reach, even through the millennial reign when Christ returns. The question becomes if we all sin and none are sinless and if there is an eternity of the past of gods creating gods you suppose, then you would have had an eternity of the past to be perfected by virtue of the approximation towards infinity and the exponential progression of our conscience in just 6000 years in the backdrop of 13.7 billion years it will not take an infinity to reach sinlessness for the new city, yet you still sin; so, it is not possible there be an eternity of the past of your gods creating your gods as taught in moronical mormonism, but it is a fabrication of your cult, so why believe it? Why be so selfish to make us such a lie?

4) Since of course you can't let go of this lie, any Christian would reasonably conclude you have never been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and are bound for hell. Thus would you not agree you will be in hell soon?

Your other false fruit which show you are not in Christ (according to your profile answers as of this date):
- denying Christianity in the belief in the Trinity
- denying the distinction of God's 3 Persons as the Uncreated One Being, the great I AM
- rejecting God's infinite foreknowledge to give eternal life at new birth which can never be lost (note that you believe in a created being which does not have infinite foreknowledge to be able to do this; that is, your god is impotent to be able to give eternal life at new birth which can never be lost. For example, if you think you are saved, you believe it's possible not to be saved tomorrow. Satan keeps this doubt in your mind because you were not truly saved in the first place. The glue that sticks is not a strong bonding like Christians have-once-saved-always-saved. Your god of mormonism is really just a fabricated facsimile and idol which you create for yourself to be disobedient and independent from God because you want to be saved another way and deep down inside, you are too selfish to be saved according to God's design. You reject your uncreated creator.)
- adding books to the complete Word of God's 66 books
- altering Biblical tongues to mean gibberish babble
- rejecting Jesus died on the cross on good Friday and resurrected on Sunday
- rejecting firstfruits to the harvest
- rejecting baptism by fire, ie the use of hell to burn off the dross of false works
- denying Paul went to towns to appoint elders for localities which God needs to be fulfilled before His return
- rejecting the rapture of the Saints as was Jesus raptured
- rejecting the dimensions of the new city in Rev. 21 have purpose (don't believe in universalism of infinite space for all to be saved, for God says hell is vast and the new city is only a certain size)
- rejecting the Bible when it says the old earth will be burnt up and that there be a new city on a NEW EARTH which is also without the sea, that it be a physical earth since in the 17 point proof the new city is a physical city.