The Atheist Experience Show Pre-Show #759 and #760

To: Atheist Experience TV Show

Would you like to have me on your show as a guest? I could call in and you could devote an extra long time to talk to me. The topic would, of course, be from my last call and show you did ("Something Cannot Come From Nothing") where I called in near the end of the show.

Topic:
1. What evidence is there for believing God does not exist? If you have none then why believe something without evidence? Atheism is the word traditionally to describe someone who believes God does not exist. There are no square circles and no married bachelors. Bachelors are single so they are not married and circles have no edges. So where's the evidence, additionally, for the negative position of stating and believing there is no God?

2. How can something come from that which does not exist? for that which does not exist can't cause anything. It doesn't exist. Energy must come from a source.

3. How can infinite regress be true, for if there was an eternity of the past of cause and effects, you would have had an eternity to come into being before now? And you would never have existed because an eternity would still be going on never to reach this point. We observe an exponential progression of conscience in mankind so mankind would not still be sinning to the extent we still do.

4. There is no evidence nature spontaneously erupted to create the simplest replicating living organism so why believe that? We can't recreate it. Furthermore, a mind is needed to create a mind, emotion, volition, conscience, self-consciousness, God-consciousness.

5. Since God can't have a conscience less than our own then He can't be impersonal or inaccessible. There are only three God-views in the world that extend themselves to being accessible throughout the globe which are Christianity, Islam and Hinduism that make up around 90% of all beliefs. Islam is false because it has no evidence six centuries later Jesus never died on the cross. Common sense tells us you ain't coming back as a chicken if you are a sinner, and Brahma is amoral which is below the morality of mankind. Sin is never effectively dealt with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave the Heathen

Since you have nothing new, just the tired apologetic arguments that do not lead to your idea of god, just call again early just before the show is to start.
Sincerely

David the Heathen

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Small "g" really? Is that standard practice? My idea of "god" is an evil spirit since a "god" is not God. We are talking about God not a god. Don't stray off topic. You admit you are a "heathen". A heathen Biblically means you are an unregenerate going to Hell. Is that what you are conceding? Or does "heathen" mean something else to you entirely? Let's be clear on these things.

Are you self-declaring "...that do not lead to your idea of god"? What do you have for evidence to support this claim? How have you overturned the evidence given in these 5 points? You did not handle it before, why should I believe things have changed on your end?

Why does there need something new? Shouldn't you deal with what's already on the table? It's like you are looking for a drug. Any proof of God should be simple and accessible to everyone's conscience if God exists because God is just and fair.

I will only call if you promise to give me enough time to talk to address each of these points, but if you plan to give me just a few minutes then I won't call in. Each of these 5 points need to be dealt with conscientiously.

Please tell me what time to call, what time your show is at, and I will call in through Google phone since it is a free phone call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave the Heathen

We have dealt with these topics many times before. If you want to call fine. None of your arguments are convincing to anyone but another believer.

David

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For these five points not to be convincing you would have to find fault with them, some argument against them. I have not heard anything of that sort from you or anywhere on your show though lots of deflection. The same goes for the one time I called in before on the show: "Something Cannot Come from Nothing" speaking to Martin Wagner and Russell Glasser.

So what time should I call in to press you on these points? (Exact time please.) Your website says "the number is 512-472-2255." What time exactly do I call?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David the Heathen

Have a nice day troll!

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Does that mean you won't take my call? You sure seem like you are avoiding the matter. How can anyone confront you on these issues if you shut your mind down like that and avoid the matter?

Note: Evasively, David did not give me the time to call. I am not sure if they will take my call or not.

For Atheists who want to chat about this go to the Biblocality Chat Room. I have been speaking with David Tyler tv@atheist-community.org.

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Originally Posted by Jen

Troy,

If you decide to call, you should to it shortly before the show airs at 4:30pm. That said, I won’t guarantee we’ll even put you on, since you’ve already had quite a bit of show time to make your case.

Before you call, here’s a piece of advice for you – look up burden of proof. Your statement “What evidence is there for believing God does not exist?“ indicates a gross misunderstanding of where that burden lies. I’m under no obligation to present evidence that your god doesn’t exist. If you assert that this entity exists, you have to present evidence to support that claim. Until you do, I’m correct in my disbelief of the claim.

There’s no point in going any further in your string of questions until you meet your burden. Logical fallacies and scripture won’t cut it, so do your homework. Be clear and concise with your claims and questions, because we won’t let you monopolize the whole show with nonsense.

Jen

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4:30 pm MST, EST or CST?

I've only ever called in once and I won the argument on all points as you can see in show #675. It was about 9 minutes, and I got to talk for less than 5 minutes. Is that really a lot of show time? That you misrepresent me tells me you are not being forthright. Everyone can see I talked for less than 5 minutes in the entire history of your show. I suggest the reason you might not let me talk on your show ever again is because you don't have the tools to deal with these 5 points; such tools don't even exist.

The burden is on you because you take the position as an atheist that "God does not exist." I don't need to prove God exists, but you need to supply evidence for your claim God does not exist.

Once you realize you have no evidence, if I want, I can supply evidence for God, and we can discuss that which has the added benefit of further proving your claim God does not exist to be false.

As to Scripture, Scripture itself presents a proof as I present you a proof, so to reject even listening to said proof, e.g. Rom. 1.20 and other verses of argument seems quite disingenuous.

Dealing with the matter of your claim God does not exist should be addressed first before dealing with whether my claim God exists has evidence. That is the logical order of things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Tyler

Goodbye troll

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Wow! That is not very friendly or cordial. I tried to call 512-472-2255 just now. It is 11:30 am MST and nobody answers the phone.

So you don't want to tell me whether to call at 4:30 PT, MST, CDT, EST? Am I to assume by your attitude you won't give me a voice on your show?

What about Jen, what does she have to saw about this?

David emailed me from santiago804@gmail.com

You guys are located in Austin, Texas I think which is CDT. Should I call 4:30 CDT? I believe that is 3:30 MDT. Is that correct?

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Originally Posted by Martin Wagner

I remember you. You called in, threw out a series of obvious logical fallacies, got called out on every single one of them, and then whined that they weren't fallacies. If that's your idea of winning an argument, I can see you've gotten no less stupid or dishonest in the intervening years.
Martin

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You weren't able to show any of my statements were logical fallacies. Watch show #675 again. And you got real agitated at the end of the show because I really broke down your reasoning, and Russell Glasser tried to cool you down because you were so upset. You were panting and even got up out of your chair ready to leave the studio. Since you still need to address these 5 points, I would be happy to call in today, but if you are going to cut me off like last time or just give me a couple minutes I won't bother.

Should I call at 3:30 MDT?

I have given you the 5 points ahead of time so I don't catch you off guard like you were last time.

Martin emailed me from Martin Wagner <wagnerfilm@yahoo.com>

To: wagnerfilm@yahoo.com, santiago804@gmail.com, tv@atheist-community.org

I called 512-472-2255 multiple times, but nobody picks up. It just keeps ringing. Is that normal? Will it be ready at 3:30 MDT?

Is the show today Saturday May 5, 2012?

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Originally Posted by Martin Wagner

This is because we only pick up the phone when our show is live. It is a studio phone and during the rest of the week it is used by other shows. You will need to call around 4:30 PM CST on Sunday if you wish to go live on our show.

MW

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I'll call you then. You get the next two days to decide how you are going to deal with those 5 points intelligently. Please try to contain your emotion and just stick to a logical answer if one exists. Sleep on it and think about it again tomorrow before the show starts. I want you to be ready for me because last time you bored me to death with your dumb answers.

If you want to have some live text chat before I call your show on Sunday, you can reach me in the Biblocality Chat Room (no need to register).

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Originally Posted by Jen

Troy,

I just realized who you are – the logical fallacy vending machine! If you think you “won” the last time you were on, then you are a classic example of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome. The hosts didn’t need more time to dismiss your arguments, but if you want to try again, have at it.

“The burden is on you because you take the position as an atheist that "God does not exist." I don't need to prove God exists, but you need to supply evidence for your claim God does not exist.“

All that’s necessary to be an atheist is to disbelieve your claim that a god exists. I don’t have to go on to make the claim that gods don’t. If you are claiming that some god exists, and especially if you claim that a particular god exists, you *do* have to provide evidence for that claim. This is Logic 101, and if you don’t understand this, you’re going to have a very difficult time.

When you call - *if* you call - you should first decide if you’re arguing a philosophical point or for a specific god. If it’s a specific god, start by defining which god you are claiming exists. Then you should be prepared to offer evidence to support your assertion that this god exists. Most of us on The Atheist Experience are former Christians, so we’ve already investigated and rejected scripture as evidence for your god’s existence. If that’s all you have, well, you’re going to have a difficult time indeed.

The show broadcasts live from Austin, TX, so it should have been a trivial matter for you to figure out that the correct time zone is CST.

Jen

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You are a classic example of logical fallacy vending machine don't you know? The host didn't need more time to dismiss my argument because eternity is not enough time to do so.

That's a logical fallacy to say, "All that's necessary to be an atheist is to disbelieve your claim that god exists" because you supply no evidence for your claim that God does not exist. That's like someone saying, "All that's necessary to believe the earth is flat is to disbelieve someone who says it revolves around the sun." Funny. Dumb! Retarded.

First you must come to the table honestly and admit you have no evidence to believe God does not exist, become an agnostic, then we can proceed accordingly by examining the 5 points I gave why God exists and who God is. It's very elementary dear Watson.

It is also illogical to claim you are are former Christian, because a Christian is defined as being "once-saved-always-saved," therefore, you are being dishonest. You would have to admit you were never a Christian to begin with.

Once we establish that the position of atheism is false and that you are agnostic, we can go on to examine the proof for the existence of the uncreated Creator and who the uncreated Creator is by the proof supplied in the 66 books of the Bible since this is the proof text.