Did You Know Calvinists Call God a Liar?

Printable View

12-27-2010, 11:55 AM
foreversaved

Did You Know Calvinists Call God a Liar?

Re: Theo1689 - CARM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theo1689

Calvinists don't deny that man has "ability to choose". This is a straw-man, the old "robots" or "automatons" straw-man.

Yes you do deny man has the ability to actually receive Jesus Christ and will do so. Your conscience may not realize your god is a robot maker, but that's the problem.

Quote:

You seem liberal with throwing around the phrase, "against his will". Just because something doesn't originate with man doesn't mean that it's "against his will", or that man is "forced" to something.

Of course it does since man never had the choice according to you. Your god is a boring robot maker.

Quote:

No, man is not condemned for "not believing", man is condemned for his sins (which he freely chose). It's like saying, "Cause of death, not taking his nitroglycerin", rather than the more accurate, "Cause of death, heart attack".

Man is not condemned for "not believeing"? What a Satanic thing to say. So you continue to reject Christ, "not believing" in Him and you don't think that's a sin? Man is not condemned for being born into sin that causes him to sin. He is condemned because He has been given the grace to be able to respond to Christ for power over sin. The cause of death of Calvinists is they try to save themselves by assuming they are irresistibly selected according to their own idea: "will-worship" (Col. 2.23 ASV). It's a terrible state to be in.

Quote:

Do you feel forced to do particular actions? Or do you make decisions, and make choices? One wonders why you feel the need to be so dishonest.

No. Why accuse of this honesty? Unless you are being dishonest. Whether you feel forced or not, the fact is your kind of grace that you imagine was irresistibly imposed on you. You're describing how Satan operates upon people not God. The truth of your mistaken assumption is you let Satan rule your life and are engaged in "will worship" because by your will you assumed you were irresistibly selected rather than accepting and receiving Christ to be regenerated which Go has given you more than ample grace, enabling you to do so. Why do you keep calling God a liar?
12-27-2010, 12:16 PM
foreversaved

Re: gracewl - CARM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracewl

Man, at creation, had free will. All men, after the fall, willingly enslave themselves to sin, for their very nature - passed down from our first parents - is inclined to sin only, and obedience to God is unnatural. The unbeliever desires to please self, therefore they are enslaved to the sin of idolatry. The believer desires to please God, therefore they are enslaved to their Master Jesus Christ.

Man has no free will? You mean you can't help an old lady across the street? Clearly you have deluded yourself in your corrupted morals to degrade yourself further in your faith. Men did not enslave themselves to sin after the fall, for where in the Bible does it say a person is guilty for being born into sin? Rather, man refuses the grace God has given, the wooing of His Spirit and the work of the cross of our Lord Jesus who is so foreign to you.

You worship a god who is unable to provide sufficient grace to all and is not willing that any should perish. If Satan was pretending to be God then this is how he would be limited in being unable to provide sufficient grace to all. The believer desires to please God because He is regenerated. The reason he is regenerated is because he genuinely accepting Christ with the right attitude. The Calvinist is an unbeliever like you said, you try to please yourself in "will worship" by claiming you were irresistibly selected and did not have to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated.

Quote:

It takes divine intervention to repair what was broken, thereby giving us a new Master. We are born enslaved to sin! We are reborn and become slaves to righteousness. This is what Scripture teaches, and only those who IGNORE what they read can say otherwise. Read the following and come away with any other conclusion than the one I've drawn:

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Those who are born-again in Christ are righteous in God's eyes and it took God to save man. But where does Romans 6 say anything about God not having sufficient grace and that people are saved by an evil tyrant that can only irresistibly impose salvation? Surely you jest.

Alas, you are unwilling to "present yourself" to Christ to be an "obedient slave" (regenerated). Romans 6 would not included you among "slaves of unrighteousness" because you admit you are unwilling to accept the Christ to give you a new life. Instead according to your own idea you try to "will worship" yourself to be saved by assuming you were irresistibly selected. You will never succeed. You're just acting like those of other religions.

Re: PapaLandShark

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaLandShark

How does a man become "willing"?

Search God out with all your heart and soul, repent of all 5 points of Calvinism, and you shall surely find Him to be willing (that is: not self-willing) to accept His offer. Praise the Lord! Obviously, the reason you are have never been born-again is because you have not fulfilled this condition because you prefer to be in your natural man.
12-28-2010, 08:09 PM
everstill

re: risingspirit - CARM

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingspirit

"Never let any man deceive you in thinking you have not free will to chose".

In both the proof texts you presented (Joshua 24:22 and 1 Kings 18:21), the people of Israel "chose" to serve God, but DIDN'T. Scripture makes it clear that ...outside the regeneration of God... ALL men are "dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh" (Colossians 2:13 NKJ, NRSV). That's ~dead~ ...rather than 'impaired', or 'sick', or 'having problems'! Dead men DON'T have free will. How can they ? They're dead! "Martin Luther was a great man of God whom God used to restore Justification by alone to the Church".

Prof. Luther had it right: "Free Will without God's grace is not free at all, but is the permanent prisoner and bondslave of evil, since it cannot turn itself to good" (Bondage of the Will; Ch. 2, Sec. 9). Natural Man has will ...just NOT a free will. Rather -as Augustine wrote- "a slave will" (Against Julian; Ch. 8. Sec. 23). This being what God's Word means when it describes us as "slaves to sin" (Romans 6:6 & 15 NASB, NIV )

A physically dead person can't refuse Christ either so that's a bad analogy.

When God says we are dead in sin, it means our sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell and in need of salvation. It does not mean that you are not made in God's image. It does not mean that you don't have free will. But it does mean because your spirit is dead to God (lost communication), that in order to be restored backed to God you will need to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive what the Lord Jesus did not only for you sins, but the sins of the whole world. Jesus is the propitiation not only for your sins but the sins of the whole world. God is the Savior all men, specially those who believe.

He does not want any to perish, so friends reject in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit those who exalt themselves before you when they tell you that they have been irresistibly selected and there was nothing they could do about it and nor is there anything you can do about being preteritioned, that is, passed over, sent to Hell just because you were born into sin. What love is that? Is this not how Hitler treated the Jews to the gas chambers? How do you distinguish the god of Calvinism from Hitler?

Give your life to the God who provides sufficient grace to all men whosoever is willing and thou shalt be saved. "How often would I have gathered" you (Matt. 23.37). Amen.

Martin Luther, Augustine, Spurgeon, James White, Matt Slick, Paul Washer, etc. - None of these men will ever be saved. It is better that you know this now so you don't end up like them.

Reject their idol that says you don't have a choice, for they selfishly employ this idol (and their own free will) so they don't come to Christ genuinely and with the right attitude in giving up self to place their trust in the true Christ Jesus.

They are engaged in "will-worship" (Col. 2.23; see John 1.13). You do have a choice because God has provided sufficient grace to all men without exception whether by common grace or special grace of the gospel. Hallelujah! Now that is a God you can trust in. Praise the Lord!