The Righteousness of the Saints and Partial Rapture

Printable View

07-10-2011, 01:38 AM
spiritualman

The Righteousness of the Saints and Partial Rapture

Re: Editor of Despatch ... Wendy Beuster Howard
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Artic...ure_Howard.htm

You wrote, "Some teachers claim there will be a partial Rapture, with only the spiritual"members of the Body of Christ going. This false theory is refuted by one little word in I Cor.15:51, where Paul says that "we shall ALL be changed" at the Trump of God. Part of the Body CANNOT be left whilst the other part is taken, it is ONE BODY. Also we are ALL saved by GRACE, not works at all, neither will we be Raptured because of works, which are as filthy rags in God's sight! It is ALL of GRACE!"

Wendy,

You suffer from two mistaken assumptions or self-imposed legalizations: "Single Glory Syndrome" (everyone raptured at the same moment) and "Extreme Sovereignty Condition" (for your said "all is by grace alone"), not realizing there is a firstfruits (Rev. 14.1-5) and later harvest (vv.14-16)-an advanced party that precedes the saved in general. This is conditional based on readiness.

Some people say that the rapture of the church cannot be divided because the body of Christ cannot be divided. It should be noted in reply, however, that the body is a figure of speech which signifies one life. If the body is taken literally, then there is already division today because the Lord is now in heaven, Paul has already died, we remain living on earth, and some believers are yet to be born.

Others object that rapture is part of redemption, that since redemption is according to grace, rapture cannot be based on the concept of worthiness. In reply, it needs to be pointed out that while the act of changing (see 1 Cor. 15.51-52) is indeed according to grace, the act of being taken (rapture) is according to works.

Since in 1 Cor. 15:50-52 (“We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed”) “all” is the word used, surely this signifies the whole body. Yes, the “all” here does indeed refer to the entire body, but it does not have reference to the same time. For example, we all will die, but certainly not all of us will do so in one day.

There is a distinction made in the Bible between wheat and tares, some say, but no difference made between wheat and wheat; consequently, all wheat must be raptured. In reply, it should be noted that the times of ripening for wheat are not the same. Thus there are the firstfruits and the later harvest.

We are not robots so it is not all of grace. Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world and God's grace is sufficient for all to have the choice. His grace and wooing of His Spirit supplies us. The Bible doesn't consider Christians filthy rags, but new born children of God with the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of the saints shall be rewarded. "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints" (Rev. 19.8)-"our righteousness" (Is. 64.6).

Only the overcoming believers are related to the new city during the millennial kingdom. In the new heaven and new earth, both the saved and the overcomers partake equally in the New Jerusalem. The wedding gown is worn only for a time; the believers who overcome are joined together as the bride. At the marriage of the Lamb it looks as though the door of the New Jerusalem is opened for the first time to let in the overcomers. The five foolish virgins are not able to enter during the millennium.

Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10. All of these verses are "conditional statements" to be "taken," to escape the hour of trial of the Tribulation, to escape all these things that are to happen during the Tribulation. The condition is if you are watchful, prayerful, worthy and keep the word of His patience. Do all Christians do this? Of course not. Hence, the first rapture is according to readiness before the 7 year Tribulation starts. And the rapture at the start of the last trumpet before the bowls of wrath are poured near the end of the Tribulation is according to completion of those who are "alive" and "left" (1 Thess. 4.17).
07-13-2011, 12:14 AM
spiritualman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendy B. Howard

The Foolish Virgins are professors of religion, not saved people at all! Jesus would never ever say to a born-again Christian, however unspiritual, “I know you not.” Matthew 25:12.

All 10 virgins had oil in their lamps. Oil represents the Holy Spirit. What non-Christian has the Holy Spirit? I have at least a couple dozen reasons more why all 10 virgins are saved. The virgins are not referring to rapture but rewards, that is, who gets to return with Christ to reign during the 1000 years-the marriage feast-to reign over the nations with a rod of iron.

Only in two points do the two classes of virgins differ: (1) the wise ones carry oil in their vessels while the foolish do not; and (2) the wise virgins go in to the marriage feast whereas the foolish ones are rejected. Their similarities are many, such as they all (1) are virgins, (2) have lamps (the appearance), (3) they bear light (the conduct which glorifies God), (4) have oil (the Holy Spirit), (5) go forth to meet the bridegroom (waiting), (6) sleep, (7) hear the midnight cry, (8) arise (resurrection), and (9) trim their lamps (prepare oil). Yet however numerous are their similarities and seemingly limited are their differences, the consequences for each group are far, far apart. What care must we therefore exercise! Whatever may be the cause, that will be the effect. Today’s difference will produce tomorrow’s divergence. The glory or shame in the age of the millennial kingdom to come is decided today.

Would Jesus say "I know you not"? Well look at it. “I know you not”—Will the Lord ever say to the saved that He does not know them? However, we need to examine this answer of our Lord’s very carefully:

(1)”But he answered and said”—The word “but” shows that the answer is unusual and out of all expectation. In Luke 15.22 the same word indicates how totally unthought-of, unhoped-for, and unexpected by the prodigal son were the father’s words to his servants. The word “but” here proves that the “know not” is not an ordinary not knowing.

(2) The Lord knows all who are saved (2 Tim. 2.19, Gal. 4.9, John 10.14). Two Greek words are used for “know” in the New Testament: ginoskoand oida. The former signifies an objective knowledge while the latter signifies a subjective and deeper knowledge. Now oidais the Greek word employed here by the Lord.

(3) How is oidaused in the Scriptures? It is recognizably employed to mean approve, commend, endorse, or applaud. What follows are a few examples from the New Testament which illustrate the use of this Greek word. In each example, the verb “to know” or “to not know” is oidaor its variant. “In the midst of you standeth one whom ye know not” (John 1.26). In this situation, of course, the Jews know (ginosko) the Lord, but they do not really know (oida) Him because they do not love Him. “I knew him not” (John 1.31). Since John and the Lord Jesus are cousins, the Baptist certainly knows Jesus objectively (ginosko) but not subjectively (oida)—that is to say, John does not know Him deeply. “Ye know neither me, nor my Father” (John 8.19). Though the Jews know (ginosko) the Lord quite well externally, they do not approve of Him nor do they receive Him. “I know you not whence ye are” (spoken twice in Luke 13.22-30). Here the Lord speaks of the situation in the kingdom. Some who have eaten and drunk with the Lord and have also heard Him teaching in their streets doubtless know objectively (ginosko) the Lord well, yet they are referred to by the Lord as “workers of iniquity”—a phrase which in the original is worded as “workers of unrighteousness”—that is to say, those who do not walk according to rule. “Ye know the house of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 16.15). The Corinthian believers know deeply (oida) and not just know objectively (ginosko) the house of Stephanas. Hence from all these examples we learn that oida is subjective knowing of a person, which implies a sense of trust.

(4) “Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 10.33; cf. also Luke 12.9). These two instances of the word “deny” have reference to things in the kingdom. Secret Christians will not perish, yet neither will they be approved by the Lord in the kingdom. “Deny” (arneomai) is to not know (in the oidasense of not knowing) (see Matt. 26.70). It is to contradict, refute, or overturn.

(5) There are similar examples of this matter of knowing and not knowing in the Old Testament, as for instance in 1 Samuel 3.7 (“Now Samuel did not yet know Jehovah”) wherein Samuel had indeed objectively known Jehovah, but he had yet to know the Lord in a subjective way.

(6) The reward of the kingdom is based purely on righteousness. For the Lord to deny has about it the flavor of righteousness. Just as a judge must ask the name of the offender even if the latter is his own son, so the denial here in Matthew 25.12 (“I know you not”) refers to the action and not to the person. It means the Lord cannot accept or approve.

Since all 10 virgins have oil in their lamps then all are saved. They all have the imputed righteousness of Christ. But the 5 unwise virgins do not have a close relationship as they do not fill up their vessels with extra oil they also carry in addition to their lamps. Hence they lack of the righteousness of the overcomers, the 5 wise virgins. Since the Scriptures teach not just the righteousness of Christ imputed to believers, but also the righteousness of the saints to grow in that new life, we should not forget the latter while emphasizing the former, for then our work because cold, impersonal, non-relational and irresponsible. As was said...

There is a distinction made in the Bible between wheat and tares, some say, but no difference made between wheat and wheat; consequently, all wheat must be raptured. In reply, it should be noted that the times of ripening for wheat are not the same. Thus there are the firstfruits and the later harvest.

We are not robots so it is not all of grace. Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world and God's grace is sufficient for all to have the choice. His grace and wooing of His Spirit supplies us. The Bible doesn't consider Christians filthy rags, but new born children of God with the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of the saints shall be rewarded. "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints" (Rev. 19.8)-"our righteousness" (Is. 64.6).

Only the overcoming believers are related to the new city during the millennial kingdom. In the new heaven and new earth, both the saved and the overcomers partake equally in the New Jerusalem. The wedding gown is worn only for a time; the believers who overcome are joined together as the bride. At the marriage of the Lamb it looks as though the door of the New Jerusalem is opened for the first time to let in the overcomers. The five foolish virgins are not able to enter during the millennium.

"And they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7.14b). "Robes" is in plural number, and these robes signify righteousnesses, even the righteousnesses of the saints. They do not refer to the Lord Jesus Christ as our righteousness. Indeed, the robe (singular) is righteousness (Is. 61.10), and it is the Lord himself (Jer. 23.6), for Christ is our righteousness (1 Cor. 1.30). We are clothed with Him as we come before God. But this righteousness has no need to be cleansed by the blood.

Hence we have two robes: the one we are clothed with when we are saved, by which we stand before God; the other is our own righteousnesses—even our victories—in which we may stand before Christ. The white garments spoken of in Revelation 3.18 require a price, whereas redemption is that which need not be bought.

No Christian will be judged and condemned before God (John 5.24); but no Christian will be exempt from having to stand and be judged before the judgment seat of Christ according to what he has done (2 Cor. 5.10).

Believers’ robes are washed clean, yet not because of the great tribulation but because of the blood of the Lamb.

The very fact that the robes of the saints are washed in the blood of the Lamb shows how they once were defiled on earth yet they have followed the instruction of 1 John 1.9, and thus they are cleansed.
07-13-2011, 12:35 AM
spiritualman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendy B. Howard

God will bring His wrath in the Tribulation upon the unsaved who are ungodly and unrighteous, not upon those who are under the Blood Covenant.

1 Thessalonians 1.10 “The wrath to come” - This is the Great Tribulation. Since the Lord Jesus will deliver us from the wrath to come, many say we must be raptured before the Great Tribulation. Also, 1 Thessalonians 5.9 “For God appointed us not unto wrath” - Once again this “wrath” has reference to the Great Tribulation they proclaim. Let me say, though, that such an interpretation of “wrath” here as being the Great Tribulation is incorrect. How do we know that this wrath must necessarily be the wrath in the Great Tribulation? And even if it were granted that it is, such an interpretation of this word “wrath” would still be unreasonable because the Great Tribulation, on the one hand, is God’s punishment and wrath coming upon the unbelievers, and on the other hand is Satan’s attack and wrath descending on the believers. When Satan assaults the believers, the latter enter into the experience of the Great Tribulation but do not come under the wrath of God.

However, the "bowls of wrath" are specifically God's wrath mentioned. The bows of wrath are 24 months long contained in the 7th trumpet. But before the 7th trumpet is blown we see saints in heaven (Rev.11.15, 15.2-4). Hence, we can conclude in addition to the first rapture according to readiness (Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) before the Tribulation, there is also a rapture at the start of the 7th trumpet before the bowls of wrath near the end of the end of the Tribulation. This latter harvest is according to completion, not according to readiness. All those who are "alive" and "left" shall be resurrected and/or raptured at that time (1 Thess. 4.14-18).

Praise the Lord!
07-13-2011, 12:40 PM
spiritualman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendy B. Howard

Just one answer...The Bible says in Matthew 25:3 that the virgins said they had “NO oil” meaning they had no Holy Spirit?

I see where you are stuck. I've already addressed this, but again, there is the lamp and the vessel for carrying extra oil. This is common practice in ancient Israel. "But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps" (Matt. 25.4). "In their vessels WITH their lamps." Whereas the 5 unwise virgins (of the same class) said, "our lamps are going out" (v.8 RSV, KJV, NLT, NIV, NKJV, YLT, DBY, ESV, NASB, and most other versions, except KJV which is based on late texts). Are you a KJV onlyist? That could be your problem. They have oil in their lamps. Not one of their lamps is without oil. All the lamps are still showing forth their light. These 5 unwise virgins don't know the day or hour so they are told to watch whereas the 5 wise virgins know. Could the Lord address the unsaved to watch? That would be salvation by works. Salvation is not by works, lest anyone should boast. You are boasting Wendy!

It's amazing how people such as yourself don't read these plain words as they are but you have some twisted alteration of them in your heart. Denominationalism is possessing you on this front I suspect and the cult that you are in. You don't seem to think for yourself.

vv.2-4 Two classes of virgins. Many commentators take the five foolish virgins to be the unsaved, yet there are so many iron-clad evidences to overturn such an interpretation that we will mention only fifteen of them, which serve also as important proofs that these foolish virgins are saved ones:

(1) These five foolish ones are virgins. Even through verse 11, they are still termed virgins. Throughout the parable the Lord never called this matter into question; on the contrary, He continually recognized this as a fact.

(2) There are lights in their lamps (v.8). These lights sustained them up to midnight and the time of their lamps “going out” (not even that they had “gone out”), showing that the lights are not yet extinguished. And hence these virgins have “good works” and they “glorify [their] Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 5.16) due to the indwelling Holy Spirit in them, except that now their lights are going out.

(3) They all go forth to meet the bridegroom. The unsaved will never be able to go out to meet the bridegroom. Will bandits ever light their torches and go forth to meet the government troops?

(4) “But at midnight there is a cry.... Come ye forth to meet him”—The cry is to all the ten virgins. The archangel surely will not call mistakenly nor the Lord use any word incorrectly.

(5) Oil in their lamps, even though it is granted that there is no oil in the vessels. Oil signifies the Holy Spirit, and hence these foolish virgins must be saved ones. The Holy Spirit is given to believers.

(6) “Then all those virgins arose” (v.7). It refers to but one resurrection common to all ten. For note that a thousand years shall separate the resurrection of the saved from that of the unsaved.

(7) The five wise virgins go in with the bridegroom (v.10); afterward come also the foolish virgins (v.11). They all are raptured to the air, except that the latter five cannot attend the marriage feast.

(8) The difference between the five wise and five foolish virgins lies in their conduct, not in their nature—since all of them are virgins with no divergence of true or false, the only distinction being between being wise or foolish. To be foolish does not mean to not be saved.

(9) Due to the tarrying of the bridegroom (v.5), the lamps of the foolish are going out. If the bridegroom does not tarry, these may be just as qualified as the wise ones to enter.

(10) These five foolish are virgins from the beginning to the end (v.11).

(11) “Buy for yourselves” (v.9). To the unsaved, it cannot be a matter of “buying” but one of “asking” since grace is freely given. Only to the saved can the word be “buy”—which means paying a price.

(12) If the five foolish are unsaved, then according to this interpretation it would seem that they are being given another opportunity to be saved after they die, because the wise virgins counsel them to go and buy oil. Initial salvation can only be received in this life.

(13) If the five foolish are unsaved, would the five wise say, “Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you”? If these foolish are truly unsaved, these five wise cannot make any excuse but must pay any cost to help; for how can they stand by and do nothing for the perishing? So do you see how you teach a false gospel also?

(14) “Watch therefore,” says the Lord (v.13). To be watchful requires life. If the five foolish are not saved, they cannot be exhorted to watch but must be urged to repent.

(15) In contrast to the parable of the gospel feast told of in Matthew 22, which is directed towards the lost, this parable is spoken to the disciples. Matthew 22 is concerned with the question of being saved or perishing, but this is not the concern of Matthew 25. Whoever is bound and cast out in the parable of Matthew 22 is totally helpless, but the foolish virgins who are barred are still quite free. The earlier parable relates to the gain or loss of the king, while the latter story pertains to that of the virgins. The one refers to the glory of the king; the other reflects upon the welfare of the virgins.

I have so much more evidence, so much indeed; but I know how you hate evidence, having railed against me and not dealt with this information, and prefer your preconceived notions, your traditions, your flesh, your outerwoman. You exhibit no spirit in you. I pray I have not cast pearls before the swine-a false Christian who cannot understand these things anyway.

p.s. sorry, I did not copy your insane railing at me and your inordinate emotionalism. I just wanted to stay on the doctrinal errors you are making so I just quoted those portions. In the future, just search your name on Google and you should find this page.