Who Gets to Escape the Hour of Trial of the Tribulation?

Who gets to escape the hour of trial of the Tribulation?

Those who "keep the word of His patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3.10).

Do all Christians keep the word of His patience? Of course not. Paul says there are carnal and spiritual Christians.

Is this confirmed elsewhere that those who are watchful and prayerful may escape all these things that shall come to pass of the Tribulation?

Yes. "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21.36).

Stand before the Son of Man takes place where?

In 3rd Heaven, they "stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands" (Rev. 7.9). This takes place before even the first trumpet of the Tribulation is blown in Rev. 8.7 when "the first angel sounded."

Those mentioned in 7.9 are overcomers, for (a) the white garments are promised to those in Sardis who have not defiled their garments, (b) not to pass through the trial of the Great Tribulation to come is assured to those in Philadelphia who have kept the word of patience, and (c) the palm is always a symbol of victory. The man child spoken of in 12.5 is likewise an overcomer, since he will rule the nations with a rod of iron.

"And palms in their hands"—This signifies victory (Lev. 23.39-43). During the feast of tabernacles branches of palm trees are used, which feast denotes that God will temporarily dwell with His people (thus typifying the millennial kingdom).

Is there a 3rd verse that supports first rapture before the throne according to readiness?

"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" (Matt. 24.40-42).

Whose Lord? Believers. One believer will be taken and the other left to pass through the time of testing of the Tribulation. What was the condition for being taken? Being watchful.

Other proofs as follows:

(1) By reading Matthew 24.42 together with 1 Thessalonians 5.2, 4, it is evident that there are at least two raptures: for note that the first passage suggests rapture before the Tribulation because one must be watchful since he does not know when his Lord will come; while the second passage suggests rapture after the Tribulation because one knows when the day of the Lord shall come.

(2) The places to be raptured towards are also different. Whereas Revelation 7.15 mentions to “the throne of God” and Luke 21.36 mentions “to stand before the Son of man”, 1 Thessalonians 4.17 says that it is to “the air” – Such distinctions would thus indicate that the entire body of believers is not raptured all at one time.

(3) Mark 13 states, “But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father” (v.32), So that the day of the coming of Christ is unknown. But 1 Thessalonians 4 declares that “the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God” (v.16). From this second passage we know that the appearing of Christ is after the sounding of the seventh trumpet. And hence the first passage relates to pre-tribulation rapture while the second relates to post-tribulation rapture.

I'm learning so many new things! Until I started digging I had no idea of a first & second rapture!

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Originally Posted by KATHY

I'm learning so many new things! Until I started digging I had no idea of a first & second rapture!

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You still don't. Keep learning Kathy.

Sometimes there are false teachings promulgated within the community of saints. The false teachings do nothing to edify, to promote spiritual growth, but they do serve to aggrandize those who promote them. How can you tell the difference? Follow the money.

The rapture is one such false teaching. Historically there was no mention of the dogma in Christian literature, sermons or history until about 1830. It was invented by a fellow with little formal education and no letters at all. His name was John Nelson Darby. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Do your own homework. Investigate the life and times and writings of John Nelson Darby.

In the mid-ninteenth century America went through a horrendous spiritual upheaval, which coincided with the Civil War. Spiritualism and false doctrine literally popped up out of the ground. The Mormons got their start and spiritualism (seances, spirit guides and spirit books) became intensly popular even among Christians. Charles Darwin published his theories on evolution, which are used by the atheist community to argue against the existence of God. One of those carnival shows involved Darby's Rapture.

Darby didn't start out with the intent to deceive. Indeed, he began with an intense desire to 'set the record straight' as it were. The 'record' was millenialism. At the time there were three versions; pre-millenialism, post-millenialism and amillenialism. Millenialism, without all the prefixes, simply refers to a Christ oriented society upon earth that will last at least one thousand years. The question that Darby sought to resolve had to do with its arrival in history.

- Pre-millenialism was and is the idea that Jesus' second coming will preceed a thousand year utopia on earth. The general context of scripture seems to agree with this form as do I.
- Post-millenialism was the idea that Christendom would conquer the entire world, establish truth justice and the Christian way everywhere AND THEN Jesus would return. WWI pretty much killed this form.
- aMillenialism is the idea that the Kingdom of God is ethereal only, that it would never be really truly established on the earth - only in heaven, only in the hereafter. Fundamental Christians reject this form.

Darby's general pattern to resolve the millenial dispute was to write a book in which he organized human history into 'dispensations' - a Dispensation of Law and a Dispensation of Grace, not to be confused with Old and New Testaments. Hence, he is referred to as the Father of Dispensationalism. BTW, the book is worth between $150 - $250 or more because of it's historic value. If you can get your hands on a copy at an estate auction or garage sale for ten or twenty bucks, do it. The ideas of a Tribulation and the Rapture were spin-offs, secondary to his main thesis of dispensations and the second coming of Christ.

Initially, Darby found support among his peers of the day. Among them were Cyrus Scofield a publisher, who included scripture references to Darby's dogma in his Scofield Reference Bible. Additionally, the famous evangelist Dwight L. Moody preached on Millenialism the Tribulation and the Rapture. In the 21st century, supporters include Dallas Theological Seminary, Watchman Nee, Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHay. Critics include C.H. Spurgeon and James Grant. There are serious and deadly effects of Darby's work upon traditional interpretations of the meaning of Christ's death upon the cross. It's more than a fanciful intrepretation of a trip to heaven. It's a demonic attack upon the core of the gospel message.

As an add-on idea to his massive work, Darby included his ideas on 19th century escapism. Bear in mind that the nation was enduring terrible financial and social changes. Many people hoped for an escape of some kind and Darby gave them one to hope for. Unfortunately, nowhere in the pages of the Bible does God promise to pop people out of trouble. He DOES promise to be with us and to help us THROUGH trouble, but never to escape it in a grand Star Trek type beam-out. In fact, Jesus even said such a thing would not happen and prayed to the Father to prevent it.

"My prayer is NOT that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one."
- Jesus as quoted by John 17:15

The hope of the Christian, therefore, is in the miraculous AND DEPENDABLE deliverance of Jesus from all our troubles, NOT that we escape from them. Christ is with us so as to develop Christ-like character within us.
Romans 5:3-4, 1 Chron 29:17, Psalm 15:1-2, Titus 2:7-8 and Proverbs 17:3 to name just a few.

The rapture is a false doctrine which does not edify the church. Like all things demonic it focuses interest upon itself, not Christ.

Finally you should know that as Darby's doctrine became more and more popular he was drawn into illicit companionship. A man is known by the company he keeps and at one time Darby was the consort of witches.

Consider this very brief outline of the doctrinal dispute and by all means DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK on Darby, millenialism and the social changes that swept across America in the 19th century. Much false doctrine was born then including, but not limited to Darby and Darwin - doctrine and ideas which eventually would destroy western Christendom as it was known at the time.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

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The rapture is a false doctrine which does not edify the church. Like all things demonic it focuses interest upon itself, not Christ.

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are you serious ?

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Originally Posted by Choir Loft

You still don't. Keep learning Kathy.

Sometimes there are false teachings promulgated within the community of saints. The false teachings do nothing to edify, to promote spiritual growth, but they do serve to aggrandize those who promote them. How can you tell the difference? Follow the money.

The rapture is one such false teaching. Historically there was no mention of the dogma in Christian literature, sermons or history until about 1830. It was invented by a fellow with little formal education and no letters at all. His name was John Nelson Darby. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Do your own homework. Investigate the life and times and writings of John Nelson Darby.

In the mid-ninteenth century America went through a horrendous spiritual upheaval, which coincided with the Civil War. Spiritualism and false doctrine literally popped up out of the ground. The Mormons got their start and spiritualism (seances, spirit guides and spirit books) became intensly popular even among Christians. Charles Darwin published his theories on evolution, which are used by the atheist community to argue against the existence of God. One of those carnival shows involved Darby's Rapture.

Darby didn't start out with the intent to deceive. Indeed, he began with an intense desire to 'set the record straight' as it were. The 'record' was millenialism. At the time there were three versions; pre-millenialism, post-millenialism and amillenialism. Millenialism, without all the prefixes, simply refers to a Christ oriented society upon earth that will last at least one thousand years. The question that Darby sought to resolve had to do with its arrival in history.

- Pre-millenialism was and is the idea that Jesus' second coming will preceed a thousand year utopia on earth. The general context of scripture seems to agree with this form as do I.
- Post-millenialism was the idea that Christendom would conquer the entire world, establish truth justice and the Christian way everywhere AND THEN Jesus would return. WWI pretty much killed this form.
- aMillenialism is the idea that the Kingdom of God is ethereal only, that it would never be really truly established on the earth - only in heaven, only in the hereafter. Fundamental Christians reject this form.

Darby's general pattern to resolve the millenial dispute was to write a book in which he organized human history into 'dispensations' - a Dispensation of Law and a Dispensation of Grace, not to be confused with Old and New Testaments. Hence, he is referred to as the Father of Dispensationalism. BTW, the book is worth between $150 - $250 or more because of it's historic value. If you can get your hands on a copy at an estate auction or garage sale for ten or twenty bucks, do it. The ideas of a Tribulation and the Rapture were spin-offs, secondary to his main thesis of dispensations and the second coming of Christ.

Initially, Darby found support among his peers of the day. Among them were Cyrus Scofield a publisher, who included scripture references to Darby's dogma in his Scofield Reference Bible. Additionally, the famous evangelist Dwight L. Moody preached on Millenialism the Tribulation and the Rapture. In the 21st century, supporters include Dallas Theological Seminary, Watchman Nee, Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHay. Critics include C.H. Spurgeon and James Grant. There are serious and deadly effects of Darby's work upon traditional interpretations of the meaning of Christ's death upon the cross. It's more than a fanciful intrepretation of a trip to heaven. It's a demonic attack upon the core of the gospel message.

As an add-on idea to his massive work, Darby included his ideas on 19th century escapism. Bear in mind that the nation was enduring terrible financial and social changes. Many people hoped for an escape of some kind and Darby gave them one to hope for. Unfortunately, nowhere in the pages of the Bible does God promise to pop people out of trouble. He DOES promise to be with us and to help us THROUGH trouble, but never to escape it in a grand Star Trek type beam-out. In fact, Jesus even said such a thing would not happen and prayed to the Father to prevent it.

"My prayer is NOT that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one."
- Jesus as quoted by John 17:15

The hope of the Christian, therefore, is in the miraculous AND DEPENDABLE deliverance of Jesus from all our troubles, NOT that we escape from them. Christ is with us so as to develop Christ-like character within us.
Romans 5:3-4, 1 Chron 29:17, Psalm 15:1-2, Titus 2:7-8 and Proverbs 17:3 to name just a few.

The rapture is a false doctrine which does not edify the church. Like all things demonic it focuses interest upon itself, not Christ.

Finally you should know that as Darby's doctrine became more and more popular he was drawn into illicit companionship. A man is known by the company he keeps and at one time Darby was the consort of witches.

Consider this very brief outline of the doctrinal dispute and by all means DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK on Darby, millenialism and the social changes that swept across America in the 19th century. Much false doctrine was born then including, but not limited to Darby and Darwin - doctrine and ideas which eventually would destroy western Christendom as it was known at the time.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

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For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 thess chapter 4

full context 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18King James Version (KJV)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


1 Thessalonians 4:14-16King James Version (KJV)

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: he is coming again for his church

jerry,

Choir is not a Christian. He rejects the return of Christ to reign on earth for 1000 years as well as the rapture when clearly we see rapture verses in the Bible. He even rejects the dividing of the spirit, soul and body in Heb. 4.12. He's shallow.

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Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved

jerry,

Choir is not a Christian. He rejects the return of Christ to reign on earth for 1000 years as well as the rapture when clearly we see rapture verses in the Bible. He even rejects the dividing of the spirit, soul and body in Heb. 4.12. He's shallow.

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AlwaysLoved seems to prefer lies and innuendo to substantive response. I never denied the existance of the millenium. If you'd read my post you'd see that I affirmed it. Dividing the spirit soul and body is an errant idea that isn't clearly defined in Christendom. Your reference to "dividing the spirit, etc." are rooted in Dispensationalism, which was formulated by John Nelson Darby. The terms are misnomers that have been assigned a meaning not in agreement with traditional scholarly methods of interpretation of the Bible. "Dividing the spirit, etc." is a method of interpretation NOT a doctrine. If you knew anything about Dispensationalism, from which the term is taken, you'd know that.

Your bias illiteracy and ignorance are showing badly. You need to educate yourself in more detail and leave the judging of others to God. It's above your pay grade, pilgrim. You'd know that too if you'd read the epistles of St. Paul.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Choir,

In you profile you say you reject the millennial kingdom. So why be doubletongued? The dividing of spirit, soul and body is clearly given in Scripture. "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4.12). 1 Thess. 5.23 affirms our 3 components to our being: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

The bipartite view of man is a fallen view of man as Satan tries to confuse the soul with the spirit. When you read Scripture you find the 3 operations of our spirit: intuition, communion, and conscience. Our soul is shown to also have 3 functions: mind, will and emotion. Why is it important to divide our spirit, soul and body? Because God wants us to walk by the spirit, but if you don't know what your spirit is, you may confuse it with your mind, will and emotion. You may think God is telling you to walk by your emotion primarily, or your will, whereas God is telling us to walk by the intuition of our spirit. God is concerned first with our conscience, not the headiness of your soul.

Dispensationalism is premillennialism. This has always been taught in Scripture from the 1st and 2nd century called "chiliasm".

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Originally Posted by AlwaysLoved

Choir,

In you profile you say you reject the millennial kingdom. So why be doubletongued? The dividing of spirit, soul and body is clearly given in Scripture. "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4.12). 1 Thess. 5.23 affirms our 3 components to our being: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

The bipartite view of man is a fallen view of man as Satan tries to confuse the soul with the spirit. When you read Scripture you find the 3 operations of our spirit: intuition, communion, and conscience. Our soul is shown to also have 3 functions: mind, will and emotion. Why is it important to divide our spirit, soul and body? Because God wants us to walk by the spirit, but if you don't know what your spirit is, you may confuse it with your mind, will and emotion. You may think God is telling you to walk by your emotion primarily, or your will, whereas God is telling us to walk by the intuition of our spirit. God is concerned first with our conscience, not the headiness of your soul.

Dispensationalism is premillennialism. This has always been taught in Scripture from the 1st and 2nd century called "chiliasm".

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I do not reject the millenial kingdom. If you'd read my post you'd know that.

Profile questions are misleading and incomplete. Differences in ideological perspectives require different definitions as to terms and context. For example, being saved doesn't mean the same thing to a Baptist as it does to an advocate of Mormonism or World Church Tomorrow or Roman Catholicism, etc. What I'm saying is that the profile questions are meant for a select group of people. It is assumed that they know and understand the implications and meanings of the profile questions. I don't know what they imply and I'm not going to fill out an answer just to please someone who doesn't know how to write a question. I believe that Christ will return to earth in physical form, that He will establish a political governance and that His authority in that form will last at least one thousand years.

'Dividing of spirit soul and body' is a phrase which appears in scripture, but was not generally utilized in teaching or doctrine prior to the time of John Nelson Darby. He used that phrase as part of his published ideology generally known as dispensationalism. It was used widely during his rise to fame and continues to be used to this day even though those who use it do not know where it's popular useage today came from. It's become a buzz word or phrase that Dispensationalists like to use....a slogan as it were. Dispensationalism, by the way, is an American ideology. It is not generally accepted anywhere else in the world and in fact has been rejected by a convention of churches in Africa about a half dozen years ago. Their reasons for rejection was that the ideology is divisive and not efficacious to the body of Christ. I agree with our African bretheren.

By the way, I received a PM from some person who accused me of following a personality other than Christ. I have never done so. I thought it rather strange to be accused of following human doctrines by one who is a Dispensationalist - an ideology formulated by John Nelson Darby. Has Darby suddenly been raised to divine status? Not in my way of thinking. I follow Christ, not Darby/Dispensationalism. It would be helpful in this discussion if the reader did a little research on Darby. It will in no way subvert one's faith in Jesus Christ, but it WILL ruin the legitimacy of Darby's dispensationalism. No big loss as far as I'm concerned.

Your explanation of the parts of the soul are in the context of dispensationalism, which I do not hold to and which are purely an American invention anyway. The classic traditional orthodox interpretation of the soul is that the soul is a complete entity encompassing all of the being as in "he was a Christian soul" - meaning all of him. The person's experience and functions are further sub-divided into three parts; body, mind and spirit. The words spirit and soul are used interchangeably depending upon context and can be a subject of confusion especially among those unfamiliar with the intricate patterns of theological discussion.

The traditional Greek interpretation of fallen man, which is also consistent with Hebrew theology, is that man chose to disobey God (Genesis ch 3). In spiritual terms a man is not autonomous. No man lives for himself, but affects everyone with his actions and decisions. Therefore when Adam chose to disobey God, the authority of his (Adam's) physical actions were thus transferred by default to the opposer/satan. It isn't the tempter's fault. It is Adam's fault wholly and completely.

Dispensationalism is an invention of John Nelson Darby and is entirely an American invention. It did not appear anywhere in Christian literature, sermons or historical reference prior to the 1830's. Darby used scripture to justify and illustrate his ideology which was primarily intended to be interpreted as a division of history into two dispensations; law & grace. Further expansions upon the ideology were added by his followers; Scofield, Moody, Lindsay, etc. Throughout history those who wanted to promote their agenda, whether it be black slavery (South African Christianity 20th century & US Christianity pre-civil war) or the justification of a specific race (German National Socialism in the 20th century) or a specific set of revelations (Church of Latter Day Saints also mid-19th century) frequently resorted to quotations of scripture to legitimize their agenda. It never made them right, but it sounded good.

The use of scripture for devious means was fully demonstrated by the temptation of Christ documented in the gospels. Simply put, it happens. Scripture can be abused by those who have their own axe to grind. If one seeks truth and 'rightly divides' scripture, then one would include these facts in his study. On the other hand, one who wishes to continue in error will justify abuse of scripture under any and all means at their disposal including restrictions of those who promote the search for truth.

Chiliasm was indeed used for centuries. The word is interchangeable with the modern word millenium, meaning the passage of one thousand years. It connotes no meaning other than as a measure of the passage of time.

However, Christian interpretations of the thousand year reign of Christ were generally 'divided' (there's that word again) into three types; pre-millenialism, post-millenialism and amillenialism. Darby sought to clarify the argument within the context of history rather than scripture - 'dividing' history into two general dispensations; law & grace. Apparently Mr. Darby wasn't satisfied with the classic division of old and new testament.

Pre-millenialism generally meant that Christ would return to earth before the beginning of the thousand year reign. That is the form most Christians accept today. Post-millenialism generally meant that Christ would return to earth AFTER the church had won the people of the entire planet to the gospel. WWI ended that idea by proving that human violence was much more powerful than anyone realized in pre-Civil War America. Amillenialism suggests that there would be no real second coming of Christ at all and that it was entirely ethereal. I don't agree with this point at all. Darby entered this mess and tried to sort it out in terms of history, not scripture. In the end his advocates used scripture anyway because they thought it's use would add legitimacy to a totally illogical point of view. It didn't then and it doesn't now. To further complicate the messy ideology, we now see confusion as to multiple advents of Christ and further subdivisions of trouble or tribulation upon the earth. None of them make any logical sense. O what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive.

The basic problem with the rapture is that it contradicts the context of the Biblical teaching of how God deals with man in times of trouble. God can be depended upon to see us through trouble, thus adding godly character to our personalities. An early extraction from trouble is not God's way. It's also the same reason that suicide is generally thought to be a sin. It's the cowards way out, really. Jesus' disciples asked Him about this and He responded directly.

"My prayer is NOT that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one."
- Jesus as quoted by John 17:15

Which part of NOT does the reader NOT understand? One who seeks truth will find God's help in the midst of trouble, not outside of it in the midst of fantasy and cowardice. One cannot hold both ideologies in one's mind and be correct on both counts. One must 'divide' one's mind to go one way or the other. Once cannot have it both ways. Either God is a real help in times of trouble, or He is not - and will supply Star Trek beam out. The latter is not supported by context of scripture history or the testimony of the saints.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS I include here a matter of educational background that the profile questions did not ask.
AAS - I hold an Associates Degree in Computer Science and Cost Accounting.
BS - I hold a Bachelor's Degree in History and Public Speaking.
MS - I hold a Master's Degree in Christian Theology and Church history.

I have been working in the computer field for approximately forty years and am currently employed by a State College in the computer department for the past eleven years.
I am familiar with the liturgy and theology of the Roman Catholic church, American Episcopal church, Baptist Church, Assemblies of God, Mormonism and Islam among others and am presently studying Hebrew faith and traditions especially with regard to Messianic Judaism and the modern State of Israel.

Spiritually, I am a Christian saved sanctified and filled with the Holy Spirit (Ruach Hakodesh as He is called in Hebrew).
Politically, I am a registered member of the Libertarian party and a veteran of six years military service (two of them in the middle east).
Geographically, I am a Floridian.
.....whatever else I may be I am a child of God...even though I seem to be disrespected for that on these pages.

You said in your profile you disagree with premillennialism so you're contradicting yourself.

Dispensation simply means we are in a dispensation which currently is the mystery age of the Church. Why reject the Church age? In the OT was the dispensation of the law. Who can deny the law was given in the OT? Not one tittle of this law will pass till all these things are fulfilled (till the end of the millennial kingdom). You just misunderstand is all. There is actually 7 dispensations.

The first test, innocence, ended with the flaming sword that turned every way.

The second test, conscience, ended with Noah's flood.

The third test, human government, ended with the confusion of tongues.

The fourth test, promise, ended with the promise forgotten and the chosen people in abject slavery.

The fifth test, law, ended with the only one who ever kept it on a cross.

The sixth test, grace, will end with mankind worshiping the Antichrist in the Tribulation.

The seventh and final test, righteousness and recompense (millennial reign), will end with the earth destroyed in fire.

http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...ns-of-Chiliasm
http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...-Dispensations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensation_(period)

You haven't made any connection to those evil systems or empires you mentioned; you sorta just declared it.

Chiliasm is premillennialism, not any other kind of millennialism: it is the anticipation of Christ to reign on earth for 1000 years when He returns. That's the point. Darby didn't do anything wrong other than he taught pretrib rapture onlyism when the first rapture is according to readiness, not a forgone conclusion for the whole Church. Since Daniel's 70th seven hasn't happened yet, it is the final seven, or the Tribulation, at the end of this age. This confuses you, but Christians understand it perfectly. Jesus said if it was not for the sake of elect He would not return.

The rapture verses in the Bible are not some copout that you suggest, but it is according to readiness. There are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere. If you were a Christian but still lying on a bed of fornication obviously you are not ready to be taken up at the first rapture to the throne in 3rd heaven. Those who are alive and left near the end of the Tribulation will meet the Lord in the air. John 17.15 is not mutually exclusive of the rapture. Both can be true. For look centuries have gone by and there has been no rapture yet. Just as Enoch and Elijah were raptured and Jesus was raptured, so will we all be raptured whether to the throne or to meet the Lord in the air if we are saved. Unsaved are resurrected but not raptured to the throne nor to the meet the Lord in the air. They are transported to the GWT, judged and sent to Hell.

The dividing of spirit, soul and body is nothing new. It has nothing to do with dispensationalism. Never is the soul, spirit and body confused. Satan tries to confuse what God keeps distinct though not separate. It is not body, mind and spirit, but body, soul and spirit. Your soul has three functions: mind, will and emotion. Regeneration doesn't take place in the soul, but in the spirit. Spirit with spirit.

It is vital to our spiritual life we experience the dividing. As Watchman Nee wrote, "I am not the first to advocate the teaching of the dividing of spirit and soul. Andrew Murray once said that what the church and individuals have to dread is the inordinate activity of the soul with its power of mind and will. F. B. Meyer declared that had he not known about the dividing of spirit and soul, he could not have imagined what his spiritual life would have been. Many others, such as Otto Stockmayer, Jessie Penn-Lewis, Evan Roberts, Madame Guyon, have given the same testimony." If you would like to learn about it read here (this is the greatest work ever done on the dividing),

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm

The Holy Spirit and the Bible tell me you are not a Christian and never have been because you reject the rapture of the body of Christ and stated you reject the Tribulation at the end of this age since you claim it has some sort of problematic dispensationalism. These are essentials a Christian will not disagree with for it is in the Tribulation saints will refuse the mark oft he beast. Will you accept it since you deny the Tribulation is even happening when it happens? The book of Revelation, Matthew 24 and Dan. 7, 8, 9, 12 are very precise about the 7 year Tribulation. It's major points are seen from Rev. 7 to Rev. 11. The details are seen in chapters 12 to 19. The millennial reign is Rev. 20. Eternity future in the New City and New Earth is Rev. 21. Simple. I find the book of Revelation the easiest book of the Bible to understand.

The final seven is 2,520 days, the smallest number divisible from 2 to 10. It is Daniel's basic prophetic working unit. The first half is 1260 days. The 2nd half is also 1260 days. Rev. 8 are the 4 trumpets in the first half. People don't die in mass yet. Rev. 9 discloses: the 5th trumpet or 1st woe is 5 months; 6th trumpet or 2nd woe is 13 months; leaving 24 months for the 7th trumpet or 3rd woe.

There are no Christians who reject the rapture of the Church. Since you reject the rapture of the Church you are not a Christian. Hope that helps.