Are Enoch and Elijah the Two Witnesses?
Re: Last Daze @ http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/p...witnesses.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Daze
As MatthewFiveFour said, the identity of the two witnesses isn't certain and John never identifies them as Enoch and Elijah as you claim. I can present a compelling case for the two witnesses being Moses and Elijah but it would still be speculation. Consider the following:
Can people be caught up into heaven in their natural bodies? I think Elijah and Enoch would indicate so.
Can people be raised from the dead back into their natural bodies? Yes, there are old testament and new testament accounts saying so.
Is it then possible for God to have raised Moses from the dead and have brought him up into heaven? Possible. Something spawned a dispute about Moses' body.
But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Jude 1:9
Who were the two at the transfiguration? Moses and Elijah. Coincidence? Not sure but there they both are.
As for the argument that it is appointed to die once and then the judgment, we've already seen where people have died and then been raised from the dead. The context of that passage in Hebrews is that as a rule, people only die once. Otherwise, absolutely no one could have been raised from the dead and we have a dilemma.
Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:26-28
It addresses the sufficiency of Christ's one-time sacrifice for sin and shouldn't be used for other purposes. Otherwise, some could argue that there is no rapture since it is appointed for men to die once and those who are alive and are changed didn't die. So, it's more of a general statement than an absolute truth.
Another observation is that the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) are two witnesses as well. Consider a passage from Luke concerning the rich man and Lazarus.
But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’” Luke 16:29-31
It's not conclusive but I find it compelling.
Discussions are a give-and-take or exchange of ideas. A discussion requires that you should be as equally ready to listen to others' viewpoints as to express your own.
Watchman Nee said,
11.3-12 “TWO WITNESSES”
Who are these two witnesses? Some interpret them as Christian nations, some as certain sects, and some as the gospel preached by Christians. All these interpretations are unsatisfactory because (1) since these two witnesses wear sackcloth, they can have no reference to a group or groups; (2) the miracles they perform as recorded in 11.5-6 are self-defensive and result in killing, and are therefore unlike the miracles performed during the gospel age which are saving in nature; and (3) the dead bodies mentioned in 11.9 cannot point to any group and they certainly cannot typify the gospel.
These two witnesses are two personal witnesses, since (1) witnessing is done by man (Acts 1.8), (2) they are clothed in sackcloth, (3) they are slain, (4) they have their dead bodies, and (5) they are prophets.
Who are they? Some interpreters say they are none other than Elijah and Moses. They maintain that what is mentioned in 11.6 about the power to shut the heaven from raining is an allusion to something that had actually been done by Elijah; and that the power to turn waters into blood is an allusion to what had been done by Moses. But such an interpretation is based only on what the two men do. According to Hebrews 9, “it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment” (v.27). Moses was dead once, how then could he die again? Moses should therefore not be included.
11.3 “My two witnesses”—The way it is presented here seems to imply that everyone who reads this passage should know who these two men are. The words in 11.4 are quoted from Zechariah 4.2,3. “Standing” signifies living. When a person is tired, he sits down; when sick, he lies down; and when dead, he falls down. But these two men are standing. In the entire Bible only two men are recorded as not having died; they are Enoch and Elijah. These two men alone stand before the Lord. (And incidentally, it is said in the apocryphal writings of John that Enoch and Elijah will come.)
“Two witnesses”—This is the number prescribed in the Scriptures for witnessing (cf. Deut. 17.6, 19.15; Matt. 18.16).
“Sackcloth” conveys the thought of bitterness. The New Testament does not command us to wear sackcloth, but in the Old Testament there was such a command (Is. 22.12; Joel 1.13).
What they preached is judgment, not glad tidings. Enoch preached judgment once before (Jude 14-15), and Elijah was a prophet who killed (see 1 Kings 18.40 and 2 Kings 1.10,12). They will yet preach the woeful news, not the glad tidings.
They shall prophesy during the three and a half years of the Great Tribulation.
11.4 “Olive trees” give oil. “Candlesticks” uplift light. Here then are oil and light. These two witnesses stood at the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zech. 4.11-14), they were standing at the time of John’s writing the book of Revelation, and they are still standing in our own day.
These two witnesses are “the sons of oil” (Zech. 4.14 Darby), for they are filled with the Holy Spirit.
“The Lord of the earth”—The Jews had their kingdom. God is the Lord of the heaven and the earth (Gen. 14.22). After the destruction of the Jewish nation God was always addressed as the God of heaven (Dan. 2.18,37,44). Now He is again called the Lord of the earth, for God has returned to the position of the Old Covenant period and has once more recognized the Jews as a nation.
What kind of persons are these two men? Perhaps they are the ones who sell oil to the five foolish virgins (Matt. 25.1-2, 8-10a), or possibly they are those who render a little help to those who will be persecuted during the Great Tribulation (Dan. 11.34).
11.5 These two men oppose the whole wide world, including Antichrist. “And if any man shall desire to hurt them . . . must he be killed”, thus showing that these two men know even the evil thoughts of the heart. They testify with force, thereby proving they are not preaching the gospel. They perform miracles in order to protect themselves and help the Jews and the remaining Christians during the period of the Great Tribulation. They do not aim at saving souls.
11.6 “Rain” expresses the grace of God. For God “sendeth rain on the just and the unjust” (Matt. 5.45). A not raining suggests that God has withdrawn His grace.
11.7 “The beast that cometh up out of the abyss”—This points to Antichrist. The wild beast is mentioned 36 times in this book of Revelation. Thirty-six is six times six, the number of man. The very name of “wild beast” reveals his nature and work. (The Lamb is mentioned 28 times in this book. Twenty-eight is seven times four. This name expresses the Lord’s nature and work as well as denotes His perfect relationships with God and men.)
This beast comes out of the abyss. In 13.1 it is noted that the beast comes up out of the sea, thus confirming that the abyss is beneath the sea.
The abyss is where the devils live. To come out of the abyss presupposes a resuscitation. According to 17.8 we know that this beast has died and is to be resuscitated.
The two witnesses have powers to kill as they wish, but they cannot kill the beast since the latter is a resuscitated beast.
11.8 “The great city”—Human eyes see it as Jerusalem; but according to its significance “spiritually” it “is called Sodom” (a city noted for its crimes) “and Egypt” (that which opposes God). Yet historically it remains as the place where the Lord was crucified.
The manner of death of these two witnesses is perhaps similar to the Lord’s crucifixion, because in the original it says: “where also their Lord was crucified”—the word “also” seems to emphasize the thought that they die in the same way as their Lord once died. This coincides with the words in Matthew 23.34-35 that some prophets will be killed and crucified.
11.9 “And from among the peoples”—Representatives come from all peoples and nations to view the scene, for they all deem these two men to be public enemies. When they hear that these two men are killed, they come to see it for themselves. In accordance with Joel 3.1-2 and Zechariah 12.3 and 14.2 peoples from all over the earth will gather at Jerusalem.
“Three days and a half’—This number stands between three days and four days. They are neither incorruptible (just as was the Lord, in His three days of burial—John 2.19; Acts 2.30-31) nor decayed (as was Lazarus, being four days in the grave—John 11.39). And it is John alone who records the three days, the four days, and now these three days and a half.
11.10 As the news spreads over the world, there are celebrations everywhere. “Send(ing) gifts” represents their highest delight. Why are the peoples so happy? Probably because (1) they have suffered physically and (2) their consciences have pricked them greatly.
11.11 “The breath of life”—Resurrection is the work of the Holy Spirit. The phrase “they stood upon their feet” shows that they are alive (whereas in 11.8 dead bodies are said to lie on the ground).
“Great fear fell upon them that beheld them”—These are afraid (1) because of the immediate reason that these two men are suddenly come back to life, and (2) because of the remote reason of what these two men will do after their resurrection since they had such powers before.
11.12 “They went up into heaven in the cloud”—The word “cloud” here is just as definite as the cloud mentioned in 10.1, since both have the definite article before them. When our Lord ascended He was only seen by His disciples. When these two witnesses ascend they will be seen by their enemies so that the latter may know that God alone is the Lord.
