God is Long-Suffering and Gives Free Will

Re: frmdeath2life - Youtube

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Originally Posted by frmdeath2life

Sir, you need to be veeery careful to judge whether or not someone is saved or not because you have NO idea what I believe. Quite the contrary, Since the reformed doctrine IS repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our regeneration it proves you understand very little about the doctrine of God's sovereignty in election. Where do you get your information!? Listen to some of the you tube debates with James W. and J. Hunt to get a better grasp of the truth if you can.

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I suggest you read What Love is This? by Dave Hunt and Debating Calvinism, a book in debate format between James White and Dave Hunt. I take it you already watched the video which I already have seen between them which preceded these books. All Calvinists teach you need to be regenerated before you could repent and believe. Since this is not found in God's word, this is not how any Christian ever came to Christ. I am aware of some Calvinists who will teach you need to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, which contradicts their Calvinist brethren, but upon examination one realizes what they really mean is that the repentance and faith is irresistible unto regeneration. This likewise will not do since God provides sufficient grace to us all to have the choice so repentance is not irresistibly imposed on people nor faith and regeneration. God is not the god of robots.

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Another way to understand the issues regarding God's grace from a biblical perspective is this historical documentation and the ongoing battle of who chose whom between Augustine/Pelagius and later Calvin/Arminius. We believe and are saved.... but "how is it that we COME to believe" is the argument. You are way off in your understanding. sorry.

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You should start off by learning that Pelagius said he never believed in what people called Pelagianism which accused him of believing. As well, Arminius said that never once did he teach a person could lose salvation, so there is lots of sinning bearing false witness by Calvinists. The Reformation has nothing to do with Calvinism. The Reformation is justification by faith, not justification by irresistible repentance.

Calvinists are Pelagian because they deny original sin, since original sin doesn't make you Totally depraved, for we are all still made in God's image with free will and God provides sufficient grace to us all to have the choice. Amen. Initially when Adam sinned he did not become fleshly, that is to say, habitually sinful. God strived with man because at that time he was not fleshly. It was only when man after several generations became fleshly that God stopped striving with man.

The Bible is quite clear God provides sufficient grace to us all. When a Calvinist tries to bring up Romans 9 just quote verse 22: "to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering"; enduring and long-suffering is sufficient grace to all, and God foreknew the free-choice of Isaac and Esau.

You are not born-again. God doesn't have to be like your god impotent, unable to provide sufficient grace to all. Hence, God of the Bible trumps your god every time. Praise the Lord! I love being on the winning team.

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Appreciate your thoughts... but "Calvinism" is nothing more than a defense of Biblical truth. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. You must study the Scriptures to know the WHOLE counsel of God. Too many professing Christians are following their hearts and listening to teachers that say what "feels" right to them. "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9 GOD's word is final authority, not Calvin, not Nee, not you and not me.

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Nee agrees with God's word. He is OSAS Arminian. Calvin doesn't. I assure you Scripture proves John Calvin is going to Hell. It's too late for him now. Neither Calvin nor you are saved since you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. "I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6.51). If you had to be irresistibly made to repent, be regenerated or preteritioned, then God would not plead with you as though you had free will: "if any one...."

God's word is final. You and John Calvin are going to Hell. The heart is wicked, but man has free will. Why? Because God is the God of sufficient grace to all men. He is the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10) not "Savior of all men in different classes, specially those who believe" since this redundantly nonsensical.

Don't be guided by you feelings meshed in with your mistaken rationalizations. If God says He provides sufficient grace to all to have the choice then it is true and therefore, Calvinism is false. Accept it. That's reality which will set you free from the lie you've been living. No longer do you need to live the lie of thinking you were irresistibly selected and pompously exalting yourself over others you think were born for Hell. No longer do you need to be like Hitler in how he treated the Jews and making yourself like the Aryan race. No longer do you need to assume you were irresistibly selected which is a work, for we are not saved by self-strength and "will worship" (Col. 2.23), lest any man should boast. You can't will yourself to be saved (John 1.13) by thinking you were irresistibly selected. That will never do.

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Originally Posted by frmdeath2life

James White uses God's Word to validate God's right to His Sovereignty, Dave Hunt uses human speculation and feelings. It's embarrassing watching the two of them debate. I was going to log on to your biblocality site but when I saw I had to answer a bunch of questions to pass your test (so you can judge who's going to hell or not) I decided that was too weird.

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The questions are primarily for Apostles that if you are an Apostle you would need to agree with these questions, so the Church can be confident who is an Apostle by their agreement whosoever claims to be Apostle. We are to test the Apostles.

But I am not surprised to hear you accuse the gospel which is the very first question as being a test. Is that too much of a burden for you to bear? That's weird of you to not be a testimony for the gospel, ashamed of it and shy away from it, yet do you call yourself a Christian? Clearly, you would be admitting you are going to Hell, for Jesus said if you are unwilling to confess Him before others, He will deny you before the Father in heaven.

If you are ashamed of Him, He is ashamed of you. Why would you need to confess Jesus before others anyway, after all you can pridefully sit on your laurels in your assumption that you were irresistibly selected. If it sounds pompous it probably is.

James White is not a Christian, because as Dave Hunt and other Christians have shown we are not irresistibly regenerated, but God supplies us with sufficient grace to have the choice. Your god can't do that. It's embarrassing for James White the way he debates. When you read Debating Calvinism it's funny how James White uses so much rhetorical ad hominem babble talk while Dave Hunt keeps pressing White to deal with specifics.

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I will NEVER convince you what God's word says so why don't you read some passages for yourself. Please look them up but with a valid translation and make sure it's not a paraphrase like "The Message or the, now out of print, Living Bible. If you think Calvinism is unbiblical and all who believe these things are heretics and are going to hell, you might ask for God's Mercy and that He open your blinded eyes to these Scriptures. John 15:16 ...

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Let me know if you can find in any of these verses that people are preteritioned to Hell or irresistibly regenerated or irresistibly made to repent. As Dave Hunt pressed James White with specifics, let me press you with specifics instead of just citing the number of a verse and that's all. For example, the first verse number you gave says: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you" (John 15.16 KJV).

When you read this verse do you automatically insert into it that God chooses irresistibly, or do you think? Do you ask yourself how God chooses? The passage explains how God chooses: "He that abideth in me, and I in him" (John 15.5). Who abideth? The person does; then God in him. It does not say "I in him, and he abideth in me". You have it backwards because of your own selfish pride to think you were irresistibly selected so you don't have to come to God genuinely, so God cuts you off: "every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away" (v.2). You've been removed showing you were never born-again to begin with. God blots you out of the book of life, assuming you will still never receive the God who provides sufficient grace to all to have the choice.

God gave you grace to respond to His will, but you reject the God of sufficient grace to all men. Again we see: "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me" (v.4). "Anyone who parts from me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers" (v.6). Who? The person. How evil that would be if God is blaming the person when it was not their fault but your god denied them the grace to be able to respond. As Dave Hunt would say, What Love is That?

If you don't have the choice how foolish God would be to say, "Remain in his love" (v.10). "You are my friends if you obey me" (v.14). God chose me because He foreknew my free-choice to receive Him, obviously. What child would read differently?

Calvinists hate Christians because we were willing to truly come to the cross as a helpless sinners, and you know you are unwilling to do so. But Jesus comforts me when He said, "When the world [e.g. Calvinists] hates you, remember it hated me before it hated you" (v.18). Calvinists can't understand us because we are not of the world. We truly repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated, something you are unwilling to do. Again Jesus says to me, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (v.19).

"And if they [e.g. Calvinist] had listened to me, they would listen to you!" (v.20). "The people of the world will hate you because you belong to me, for they don't know God who sent me" (v.21). Calvinists "have no excuse for their sin" (v.22) for not wanting to know the One True God, replacing God with their counterfeit. "This has fulfilled what the Scriptures said: `They [e.g. Calvinists] hated me without cause.'" (v.25)

"If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father" (v.24). Those who rejected Jesus such as Calvinists are guilty for He performed miracles yet they hated Jesus and the Father.

The Holy Spirit is given to us to protect us from those such as Calvinists and their false Christ. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" (v.26).

Though I was not with Jesus at the beginning as were the 12 Apostles, I can say these things that agree with His word. "And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning" (v.27).

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I won't even go into the OT and how God chose Israel, a nation for Himself. take care and happy reading. Got to go. You can also type in the words Elect, Election, Chose, Chosen, Called Predestined predestinate in a search on biblegateway.com I do not have time to continually write back and forth so this may be my last email. Grace to You.

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Again, you shut your mind down about how God chose Israel just like you shut your mind down about how God chose believers. It is that pride-filled shutting your mind down assumption of thinking you are Hitler's Aryan race that God looks upon you and says He never knew you. God didn't choose Israel for no good reason. He chose Israel because they were enslaved 430 years. They at that point had a heart to listen. He foreknew their hearts' desire to know the One True God just as Abraham was receptive to God, just as Abel gave God a right offering from his heart, not of self. God knows the heart.

Realize two things here: 1) biblegateway.com is a Calvinist run organization; 2) election is conditional, and predestination to be chosen is by God's infinite foreknowledge in foreknowing our free choice whosoever is willing.

Praise the Lord!