Crazy Things Calvinists Say

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beloved57

If christ died for a persons sins, then they are saved from their sins based on that, and belieivng come later.. If you believed in the true God you would not need anyone to show you such a simple premise.. You dont need to see something written until you have been born again..

---

The Bible says Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sin, yet not everyone is saved because not everyone has believed.

However simple the premise of a calvinist that they are saved first before believing, it is still a wrong premise because Jesus died for the sins of the whole world so that anyone could be saved who believes. And requiring no proof for a premise just because it is simple allows you to believe anything whether right or wrong as long as it is simple. It's neat by the Holy Spirit how you we can easily expose the mistaken thinking and sinful thoughts of calvinists.

A calvinist teaches you don't have to see proof by "something written" until you have been born-again. This is definitely shutting his mind down to the choice before him to come to the cross. That choice is not doing something, but it is the limited ability given to all people. The reason why a calvinist merely assumes his salvation instead of repenting to the cross is so he can be in a presumed salvation that allows him to remain in his sin nature.

Ultimately, to be a calvinist is to admit you are unsaved and do not want to be saved. The Bible says we shall know them by their fruit. Only when a calvinist is resurrected to the Great White Throne and God judges completely to throw the calvinist in hell will the calvinists finally appreciate he belongs in hell.

If you would like a history of how a typical calvinist thinks...
Are You Saved before You Believe or After?
The Gospel of Calvinism
Popular Way of Salvation

(1) God chooses those because they are conditionally chosen and not already heirs, and (2) we whom are saved had "obtained access by faith" (Rom. 5.2), "for by grace are ye saved through faith" (Eph. 2.8). Faith precedes salvation. You are rich in faith as evidence by your overcoming.

We all can access this faith because we all have the choice. Faith is the product of correct choice we are given a right to (not to save ourselves though) with limited ability. Those who are then saved are told they have the gift of faith given by God (a looking back after one is already saved), for God ultimately is the giver of your ability to have faith.

If you have faith, God allowed you to have the choice and believe by faith, but to be saved (speak directly to calvinists) first you will have to repent to the cross instead of assuming you are already heirs, otherwise you live in unrepentance and a false salvation, not coming to the cross in the way God desires.

Don't fool yourselves into thinking you can just assume you are saved without repenting to the cross. Any professed salvation without repentance is one in which the person deceives himself to remain in his sins. That is ultimately why calvinists are calvinists. They get to have their cake and eat it to.

A wise calvinists may say they did have faith before they were saved because God gave them the faith to cause them to believe. In response, did you choose by faith or was your choice outside your hands and caused by God alone? If the latter, you are still not saved, but pride yourself on being a heir before God chose you, thus placing yourself above God.

A calvinist does not believe there can be an effect without a cause (rightly so), but then they make a mistake which so often happens when someone has an assumption that has within it part truth and part mistaken assumption. If you don't prove your assumption then it is liable to have within it an untruth.

The truth is proven that all things have a cause and effect, EXCEPT God. God is proven to be uncreated by the law of cause and effect in nature. If all things have a cause and effect in nature then nature can't cause itself. Ergo, the uncreated must exist who is God of the Bible since none can compare to Christ and by the proof of His resurrection. Man's choices also have a cause which are caused by God, but not in the way a calvinist thinks-this is exactly where a calvinist falters and reveals his disobedience and separation from God.

God decided outside of time itself to create. It is His prerogative and unquestionable and not understandable beyond our saying He created out of His glory and chose a people for Himself to be with in eternity. That's His motivation. We can never ask what caused God's decision to create out of His glory and want a people for Himself. The reason we can't ask that question legitimately is because of the proof of Him being uncreated. By definition if you are uncreated you always existed and whatever council you hold in the Trinity of the Godhead is ultimately caused by the fact you are uncreated and is beyond our scope of understanding. I realize that is hard to fathom (especially for calvinists who require a cause) as it should be since only God is God, but logically it is solid finding and if anything, is very humbling.

We must continue with that humility and can not overassume anything, only accepting what God reveals to us on how to be saved.

A calvinist thinks our choices are caused by an irresistible grace or irresistible damnation; limited atonement or limited unsalvation; and unconditional election or unconditional hell-boundedness. No verses in the Bible can be found to support any of these ideas.

Whereas God tells us the grace is resistible (you can actually resist salvation), the atonement is unlimited (God does offer salvation to everyone), and election is conditional (God actually can foresee your free-choice which everyone could be saved if they chose God's mercy on the cross). The common verses in support of these points have been given time and again.

Since God tells us His grace is resistible, the atonement is unlimited and the election is conditional, we must trust in God's Word no matter how difficult it is to accept that (yes, calvinists I am speaking to you especially). Live by faith not by your mind or your emotion. Simply, trust God's Word. Only then will you accept true salvation. Anything else is just supposition in disobedience and separation from God for all eternity as you try to usurp yourself above God by reading into the Word of God that which is not there and wanting to be saved another way.

If God didn't say it, it's just your opinion and worse, unsalvation. Thank you God for your Word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beloved57

Its not about me telling God how I want to be saved, but His word telling me How one is saved..its by the eternal purpose of God, man has no say so whatsoever..In fact, some men have been predestined to hell, they have no choice whatsoever..

---

But you are telling God how you want to be saved by telling Him that He saves you without first regard for your choice to repent to the cross. He requires you to repent to the cross before He will save you.

It is not that men are not predestinated to hell, but how you misinterpret what predestination to hell means. Predestinating to hell means God foreknows your free-choice to want to go to hell, because God predestinates by foreknowing your free-choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

God does not predestinate by making you a robot such that you have no choice in the matter where you go. That is an evil god who would force you one way or the other and not concern himself with your choice.

The negative consequence of your beliefs is two fold: 1) you never repent to the cross to receive true salvation; 2) you don't care to lead people to Christ because it doesn't matter anyway, for they are forced to a destiny they can't circumvent.

I believe a calvinist is trying to get into the head of God more than God sanctions in a way to usurp himself above God and pride himself on his supernatural revelation. Not all supernatural revelations are from God when you read more into the Word than is there. This kind of salvation is one where there is a lack of the essential repentance which colors the life of a calvinist.