Drawing Back unto Perdition: Frozen in a False Salvation

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12-11-2010, 11:30 AM
Parture

Drawing Back unto Perdition: Frozen in a False Salvation

Re: AtlantiansAnAlteran
http://www.youtube.com/user/AtlantiansAnAlteran

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

A proper rendering of this verse could be: "No one has the ability to come to me except the father who sent me draws him to me..."
Can not = not able.
Translating dunatai as "can not" means the same thing as "is not able".
They both mean that "no one" has the ability, can, or otherwise haws the power to come to Jesus... except if they are drawn by the father who sent Him.

God draws everyone not just some so for someone to be called they first must be drawn, but sadly Calvinists "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). God provides us all with sufficient grace, thus drawing us all, but sadly many refuse to respond to that drawing. None can be saved unless God draws, but nowhere does this verse say everyone drawn is then saved. Wake up!

Quote:

actually it says exactly that:
"No one has the ability to come to me except the father who sent me draws him to me and I will raise him on the last day."
There is direct unbroken continuity between him who is drawn and him who is then raised.
No one is able to come apart from the drawing. The one who is drawn is raised up by the son on the last day.
For the record, I am a Calvinist. And I am saved because God called me to Himself and gave me the ability to have faith in Him.

When it says "except the father draws him" it is not saying everyone drawn is saved. Though it is true a person needs to be drawn by the sufficient grace of God for all men, in no way does this suggest a person who is drawn is irresistbly forced into salvation for many "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39) such as yourself. God never called you because you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. That's why you are going to Hell. How sad for you.

Before you can use your free will God has to create you; before you can receive Christ God must draw everyone for unless God draws everyone, then grace is not sufficient for all. If grace is not sufficient for all, then you would be worshiping an evil spirit, not God of the Bible at all. Think how evil it would be for God to let children drown without doing all He could to save them. How can God's morals be less than our own? Satan acts completely contrary to God's way of doing things.
12-11-2010, 07:30 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

You people do not even understand the basics of Reformed Theology.
It is my firm position that Reformed Theology is simply Consistent Biblical theology.
Troy, you are not an apostle.
You teach unbiblical semi-Pelagianism and raise inconsistent OSAS semi-Pelagianism to the level of defining Christian doctrine.

I am glad you are unable to defend Reformed Theology from God's word, high jacked from the reformation of justification by faith. You don't seem to be able to handle and deal with that God is the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10). A Calvinist might interpret this verse weirdly as "Savior of all men in different places and classes of people, specially those who believe" OR "Savior of all men but not from hell, specially those who believe." Think how redundant the first instance is. Obviously those of different classes saved are those specially believe, so why the redundant nonsense? In the second instance, how can God provide salvation for men in all kinds of regards but be impotent to providing salvation from Hell? What a freakish god! Moreover, that's a contradiction too, for how can someone not saved from hell then be specially one who believes? The Calvinist confusion resides in selfishness and separation from God.

You are not even born-again so how could you make a proper assessment of whether someone is an Apostle? Yes, I am an Apostle. You sound jealous.

That God provides us all sufficient grace to be able to respond is in no way pelagian, nor is it semi-pelagian. Pelagianism is denying original sin: "Pelagianism is the teaching that man has the capacity to seek God in and of himself apart from any movement of God or the Holy Spirit." This is also called libertarian free will. In other words, some people think that they can receive God or move outside of God's providence, even avoid His judgment. This is a silly thought, since everything that we can or cannot do is under the provision and providence of God. I doubt many actually believe in pelagianism and libertarian free will. In fact Pelagius said he didn't believe in it either even though he said he was accused of it profusely. It sorta like how Remonstrants said Arminius taught non-OSAS when he never did. Arminius said never once did he teach a person could lose salvation. Hence Arminianism is OSAS and Remonstrants are non-OSASers.

I really don't see any difference between pelagianism or semi-pelagianism since both operate without grace of God independently of God's provision. I think some think semipelagianism is no grace to enter but grace to be kept; even still it circumvents God's grace and working. "In Semipelagian thought, man doesn’t have such an unrestrained capacity, but man and God could cooperate to a certain degree in this salvation effort: man can (unaided by grace) make the first move toward God, and God then increases and guards that faith, completing the work of salvation." You know I am not semi-pelagian because I believe our free will is under the providence and grace of God to give us the choice. Our choice afforded to us is under the sufficient grace for all, and wooing of the Holy Spirit, and that's why the Bible can say, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3.9). If God were to withhold even one speckle of grace that would violate His righteousness, He would not be God but the Satanic god of Calvinism.

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2.2). So God of the Bible trumps the god of Calvinism because the god of Calvinism is unable to do this.

Calvinists are not born-again, because they worship utter evil which says God does not provide sufficient grace to all to give us the choice, but irresistibly imposes salvation on some people and sends others to Hell just because they were born into sin with no love, mercy or grace to have any opportunity of being saved. How wicked! What sheer evil! The demonic spirits are having a heyday with this. If this is evil for us to act this way and let someone perish we would be charged of negligent homicide and go to jail.

Quote:

God saved me by His decree. I could not save myself. I was totally depraved. God in His love and mercy died for my sins and saved me in spite of my sin nature' d hatred of Him.

God decrees salvation only to those who respond to His saving grace. You admit you never repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated and that is why you are going to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. I am really sad for you, for you know not what you do.

You are not Totally depraved because by the grace of God He has supplied you with sufficient grace to respond though you deny reality. As long as you continue to erect this idol called Total depravity which says you can't repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated you will continue to not do so.

Obviously you can see how much God hates idols, for look at what it has done to you. You're frozen in a false salvation.

Total depravity is an idol which allows you delusionally to enter into a false salvation by proclaiming through any old evil spirit that comes over you pridefully you were irresistibly selected and did not have to repent genuinely and come to God with an honest heart as a helpless sinner to believe on Him to be regenerated, and so you don't. For eternity you will be st uck on this delusional state in Hell.

Jesus died for you, but you refuse His saving grace. Just know you don't have to remain as you are, you can like the ex-Calvinist in this video who was a Calvinist for 26 years, admitting he was never saved, then finally gave his life to Christ to be saved (an OSAS Arminian). Praise the Lord!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUtA...layer_embedded
12-11-2010, 09:09 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

Troy, I was a firm believer in OSAS Arminianism BEFORE I became a Calvinist. Am I unsaved?

I became Reformed soteriologically and in all respects because I was firmly convinced and convicted by the scriptures that they are true and accurate descriptions of Biblical theology. Reformed theology is, as far as I am concerned: consistent Biblical theology.

In your OSAS hyper-Arminian theology, did I lose my salvation when I was convinced of Reformed Theology?

Since you claim you were saved as an OSAS Arminian, that is, you repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated which you consider now is not the way you were saved, you're contradicting yourself. Whereas the person in this video is being consistent because he admits he was never saved for 26 years as a Calvinist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqq5mF8FBfY

So not only do you have this glaring contradiction and doublespeak, but you have never been able to find any Scripture to support Calvinism, at least nothing you ever showed me to defend your faith.

There is nothing hyper about God predestinating us by foreknowing our free-choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints. It's God's redemptive design.

What the Holy Spirit is showing me is that you never did come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior even when you thought you were an OSAS Arminian as evident by the fact that you are a Calvinist now as well as contradicting yourself when you claimed you were saved in a way that you disagree with now yet consider yourself saved then anyway.

Satan loves doubletalk.

Do we dare turn "that believing ye might have life through his name" (John 20.31) into "that having life through his name, ye might believe," or "believe...and though shalt be saved" (Acts 16.31) into "be saved and though shalt believe," or "come unto me...and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11.28) into "all who are at rest come unto me," or "he that believeth is not condemned" (John 3.18) into "he that is not condemned believeth," or "he that believeth...shall never die" (John 11.25-26) into "he that shall never die believeth"? The Bible is too clear to corrupt.
12-11-2010, 10:23 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

Who appointed you an apostle? On what grounds do you claim that position for yourself?

I would not want to be an apostle. How then could I be jealous of you?

Further, as far as I am concerned the proper "apostleships" ended in the first century when all who had seen and known Jesus personally had passed away. How then could I even desire to be one?

Apostles are not appointed by men but are directly commissioned by God.

Your hostility towards the Apostles shows your jealousy so much so as you try to exalt self, you even deny they are for today to set up the churches: "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" (Eph. 4.11).

Ephesians 4:8,11 are relevant — 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.... [vs. 11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers." Various unnamed apostles (and the other three workers as gifts for the Church) were given after Jesus' ascension back to heaven; "The Didache" contained instructions on how to distinguish between false and true apostles; "Thou hast tried them which say they are apostles" (Rev. 2.2). These verses wouldn't make much sense if there were no longer any Apostles setting up the churches.

Have you "tried them which say they are apostles" (Rev. 2.2)? What a weird thing to say to try the Apostles if there are no longer any Apostles to set up the churches in South America, North America, Australia, Eastern Asia, Africa and Europe?

Here we see the Apostles appointing Elders of a locality. Quite strange indeed if there are no now more Apostles today to appoint Elders of a locality. "And when they had appointed for them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they had believed. But we will not glory beyond our measure, but according to the measure of the province which God apportioned to us as a measure, to reach even unto you. For this reason I left you in a region of churches, that you should set in order the things which remain, and appoint elders for every city as I directed you...without taking sides or showing special favor to anyone. Never be in a hurry about appointing an elder" (Acts 14.23, 2 Cor. 10.13, Titus 1.5, 1 Tim. 5.22).

Every church? Every church had yet to extend to the rest of the world long after Jesus ascended.

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The Reformers were monergists. How could the monergistic reformers hijack the reformation from themselves?

We are justified by faith, and that is not of your doing. It is the gift of God as Ephesians 2.
says.

The wholeness of salvation is the gift of God, including the very faith needed.

I have faith and placed that faith in Christ. I have that faith and can place it in Him because He first loved me and died for my sins. The called me to His son and Jesus will raise me up on the last day, as John 6:44 indicates.

What does monergism have to do with justification by faith? Monergism is the teaching of irresistible grace, but God never operates that way, for He never forces Himself on anyone. That's what distinguishes God and Satan; Satan always tries to irresistibly impose himself on others.

Luther was not a Christian, though the reformation of justification faith did take off under this point he brought up.

God is the justifier and He gives the gift of faith, but in order to obtain this gift you need to be willing to receive it for God will not force it upon you.

"We have also obtained access by faith into this grace" (Rom. 5.2), "for by grace are ye saved through faith" (Eph. 2.8).

You have faith but not in Christ; it is a false Christ you have given your life to one that rationalizing you into assuming you were irresistibly selected. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, especially those who believe. His love extends to all, so when you say He only loved you or the irresistibly selected, you are worshiping an evil spirit. Jesus won't raise you up on the last day because though He draws you, you draw back unto perdition (Heb. 10.39).

Quote:

'Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.'

For those whom God knew as His own beforehand, He also destined beforehand to be conformed to Christ's image. There is nothing in here that speaks of a free will decision predicating God's predestination. The whole point of the term "PRE-DESTINE" means we had nothing to do with the process.

Romans 8.29 talks about how the person is justified, by Him "foreknowing". Foreknowing what? Our free will, thus He says "come unto me" (Matt. 11.28) because we have free-will: "whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22.17).

Predestine doesn't mean irresistible grace at all. It simply means God has a plan and it will be conformed to. What is that plan? To have many brothers. How strange that would be when God says come unto Him yet we could not or we were going to anyway. That would be a strange god indeed. An immoral charade!

Quote:

I repented and believed in Jesus Christ... precisely because I was being regenerated.

'John 6:36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.'

I believe and have eternal life. My belief is the result of the drawing of God's spirit. I was given to the son by the Father. I did come because He called me before the foundations of the world.

You never repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated. You admit that, so you are not saved. Since you can't find any Scripture to support irresistible regeneration, though you may not want to accept your condition, to others you are easily seen as admitting that you are going to Hell.

John 6.37 says all that the Fathers gives come, not all who are drawn come for many draw back unto perdition even after abundant grace has been supplied, yet still you refuse.

God never called you because you refuse to repent and believe on Him to be regenerated; thus, you were never chosen before the foundations of the world. God does not draw anyone into irresistible faith. If that's what you think then Satan has you. Such is a selfish salvation.

Quote:

'For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified,'

And by the grace of God: 'and those whom he justified he also glorified'.
And He will never cast me out. For '38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.'

'40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.'

I look upon the son because the Father drew me to the son.

God has indeed drawn you, but you still refuse His saving grace, because you are unwilling to genuinely come to the cross as a helpless sinner to be saved. How then can you be one of His elect? We who are in Christ can see you look upon Satan simulating Christ with a false Christ.

Quote:

'John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.'

Yes I do, for it is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.'

My heart was removed. My cold dead sinful stone heart was removed, and it was replaced with a heart of flesh that hearkened to God's calling.
That is what is called "new-birth". That is "re-generation".

Sadly, you don't want to be taught of God, because you confess you have an idol called Total depravity which you erect above God to say that you will never repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated with the mistaken assumption you can't.

God gives us a new heart when we are born-again, but before you can be saved you will need to give your life to Christ. There is no other way. He will not irresistible impose salvation on you as you wish. He wants a relationship not with robots or those who think He will send people to Hell for the sole reason they were born into sin. When you believe that you are clearly showing you reject God since God would never do that. You're in a cult.

Quote:

As Christ said:
'John3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."'

One can not even see the Kingdom unless one is born again.

How can one be born again?

'Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'

The rebirth is an act of the spirit. The spirit regenerates you, so you can then see and enter the Kingdom of God.

You asked how can one be born-again? John 3.3 doesn't say how one is born again. Rather, it says in order to see the kingdom one must be born again.

In order to receive a regenerated spirit (born-again), you will have to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. Anyone can do this since salvation has been offered to all.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" (Rom. 5.18). "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4). All men can be saved "whosoever believeth" (John 3.16) "to the knowledge of truth" and "unto justification of life." This is a parallelism. Same "all men."

Quote:

'That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."'

We can't anticipate God's regeneration. It is marvelous, spontaneous, and uncontrollable.

We can muster up faith and repent and then be regenerated.

Faith requires regeneration, for 'unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God'.

God assures us all if we believe on Him He regenerates us. He is not a liar. He doesn't break His promise. Satan says you can't trust God's promise so only when you accept an irresistibly imposed spirit upon you are you saved is the claim of the evil spirit. It reeks of selfishness, unrepentance and pretension.

Christ repeatedly gave such invitations as "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11.28), and "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink" (John 7.37).

Jesus assures us of this. Faith unto regeneration and increased faith in the new life; not faith because of regeneration since God doesn't force faith on anyone nor regeneration. What is required to enter a relationship with Jesus Christ is you coming to God with an honest heart. He says if you search Him out with all your heart and soul you shall surely find Him. How can you if you say you can't. If that is your assumption then that is the very wall you put up against God.

Clearly this is a false statement on your part, "Faith requires regeneration, for 'unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.'" This Scripture says we must be born-again to see the kingdom of God, NOT we must be born again to have faith. Always reading into the text that which is not there: the error of Calvinism always inserting instead of allowing the text to be read without any assumptions.

Quote:

Belief is predicated on Regeneration:
'unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God'.

You, Troy, can not see the blatant facts of scripture before you.
You are the one who has erected the idol of your own false apostleship.

Troy, you must repent of your pride and arrogance. You must repent of taking the title of Apostle and falsely condemning the brethren.

You must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Nothing about this verse that says you have to be regenerated before you can believe.

You can accuse me of not being an Apostle all you like, but it makes no difference since you are not even a child of God, since you have never give your life to Christ to be regenerated. Yes God has chosen me as an Apostle. I do not expect to be accepted by false Christians. You don't even believe the Apostles exist. How could a Muslim ever accept me as an Apostle; likewise how could a Calvinist ever accept me as an Apostle? I really see no difference. They are both hostile to God's redemptive design.

It is not I who condemn you, but you condemn yourself. You have chosen to assume you were irresistibly selected.

Quote:

"You are not Totally depraved because by the grace of God He has supplied you with sufficient grace to respond which you deny. As long as you continue to erect this idol called Total depravity which says you can't repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated you will continue to not do so. Obviously, you can see how much God hates idols, for look at what it has done to you. You're frozen in a false salvation. Total depravity is an idol which allows you delusionally to enter into a false salvation by proclaiming through any old evil spirit that comes over you pridefully you were irresistibly selected and did not have to repent genuinely and come to God with an honest heart as a helpless sinner to believe on Him to be regenerated, and so you don't. For eternity you will be stuck on this delusional state in Hell."

You have absolutely no grasp of the topic of Total Depravity.

I am glad you couldn't show it. Praise the Lord! I have hit the nail on the head.

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I couldn't refuse, I was irresistibly called. How could I refuse Jesus? He is irresistible!
At least, when He has chosen to save someone.

Troy. You sir know neither the scriptures nor what we Reformed believers believe.
How can you be an apostle?

God irresistibly calls nobody. That's why you can't find any Scripture for it. But you can find lots of verses of God pleading with us, dying on the cross for the sins of the whole world, wanting none to perish and so forth.

How could you refuse Jesus? By refusing to repent and believe on Him to be regenerated. Apparently He is resistible for many people resist Him and remain unsaved such as yourself.

How can you even accept the Apostles if you are not saved? First you would need to be saved then you could accept the authority in the Church and the Apostles who appoint Elders and set up the churches. Amen.
12-11-2010, 10:29 PM
Churchwork

Can you not sense the love of God in his words? This ex-Calvinist said, there is no power over sin as a Calvinist. God told him, "you are serving against me" as a Calvinist. The same is true of all Calvinists whether they want to accept it or not.

Make no mistake about it, God told him he was never saved as a Calvinist and never would be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqq5mF8FBfY
12-12-2010, 01:36 AM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

I have seen that video several times over the last few years.

That man is very ignorant of the faith he claims to have held.

I have no interest in doubting his salvation, but he is simply way off kilter about his beliefs regarding Calvinism.

Troy, you are extremely ignorant and refuse all attempts to correct you.

You misrepresent what we Reformed believers believe incessantly.

You adhere to you own niche doctrine while blindly blithering about the interweb.

You are displaying psychological instabilities that make me deeply concerned for your mental health.

You should place yourself under the authority of a local Church and their elders, or even see a psychologist.

Realize how sick you are that you think your god sends children to Hell just because they were born that way.

Think upon the psychotic pride and self-exaltation you exhibit in declaring you have been irresistibly selected over them.

Feel the love of that ex-Calvinist discovering the love of God after 26 years and receiving a new life and regenerated spirit.

Sense the fear in your own heart, unwilling to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated because you are too selfish to let go of self for Christ.

Think upon how much you despise the existence of the Apostles and their setting up the churches today to appointing Elders of a church locality.

Your spirit is dead to God. Your sickness is encapsulated in the 6 major sins of Calvinism:

(1) Selfishly, you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated by erecting an idol called Total depravity which says you can't, so you don't. (2) Presumptuously, you worship a god who sends people to Hell just because they were born into sin which is not their fault. Without any opportunity to be saved, they could do nothing about it. Such a god is impotent to be able to provide sufficient grace to all to have the choice.

(3) Evilly, you worship a tyrant that irresistibly imposes regeneration on people without affording them the choice (not much of a gift). "Someone made to do something against their will is of the same opinion still," Dave Hunt. (4) In your own selfish image, you've created a doubleminded god who contradicts himself with his two wills, declaring openly he wants all to be saved, but secretly he doesn't. If something is a secret then by definition Calvinists can't make any claim about it or if it even exists, therefore, they are just pretentiously asserting themselves.

(5) It's wrong to give people false hope to deliver the gospel to them when their god made them unable to respond. There is no way around this abusive behavior, duplicity and charade. (6) The god of Calvinism you allege could save all but doesn't; in contrast, God of the Bible doesn't save all because most people refuse His love, e.g. Calvinists. God won't save you selfishly.

Jesus "became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him" (Heb. 5.9) not "the source who obey him to all of eternal salvaton."
12-12-2010, 02:00 AM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

Once Saved Always Saved is NOT analogous to Perseverance of the Saints. In Perseverance of the Saints God is conforming those who believe into the image of His son, and thereby accomplishing what He started with regeneration, sealed with redemptive substitution, and guaranteed with the indwelling of the spirit.
As for Troy's strange and twisted notion of this wonderful grace with which God has saved those who He has enabled to believe, I can only say that He is terribly confused and disturbed.

Since Calvinists teach perseverance of the saints which is consistent within their belief system in that they mean the person can never lose salvation this is their version of OSAS. Whereas Christians believe OSAS preservation of the saints, for we gave our lives to God who keeps and preserves us and perfects us for we can't keep ourselves saved.

The Calvinist version of OSAS is false since God does not irresistibly impose salvation on anyone, but Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world to save whosoever was willing receive the love of God by what His only begotten Son did on the cross.

God is the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10), NOT "Savior of all men in different classes, specially those who believe" since that is redundant nonsense. Obviously, if there were those saved in a class they are those who believe.

There is no wonderful grace in sending children to Hell just because they were born into sin. That's a nightmare, a holocaust, a demonic design. It is Hitler sending the Jews to the gas chambers simply because they are not the Aryan race from birth.

God's grace enables all souls to believe, but sadly many such as Calvinists are unwilling to repent to the cross to be regenerated, so all they have to look to is perdition.

Quote:

How can I be going to hell?
I was a Once Saved Always Saved Arminian for a decade before I became a Calvinist.
How can a Once Saved ALWAYS Saved Arminian, lose his salvation?

Also, in your post you said:
"Your spirit is dead to God."

If my spirit is dead to God... how can I be alive enough to repent and believe on my own?
If my spirit is dead, doesn't God need to... regenerate me before I can believe?

You're contradicting yourself which shows you have a deceitful heart. On the one hand you say you were saved as an OSAS Arminian yet you defend Calvinism and reject OSAS Arminian. Perhaps you are going through some psychotic break as to be expected.

The Bible says we shall know them by their fruit. It's clear that you never truly repented and gave your life to Christ to be regenerated (OSAS Arminian) that's why it doesn't stick and you are in a cult of Calvinism. Many people thought they gave their lives to Christ but in fact never did, so you are not special in that regard. You are just another that bites the dust.

You don't understand what a dead spirit is. A dead spirit can neither reject God either in the context you are describing as an analogy to a dead person. Obviously that is false, for we still have conscience and intuition in our spirit and can help an old lady across the street.

A dead spirit refers to your innerman having no communication with God so it needs to be quickened, but it can't be quickened if you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated since by not doing so, you continue to separate yourself selfishly from God.

God wants to regenerate your spirit, but you don't want to accept God's design, so God gives you what you want which is the road to perdition.

How truly sad for you.
12-12-2010, 11:28 AM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

Do not post on my wall, I do not give you permission.

You are going to be very lonely in heaven Troy. Considering you relegate all of Christendom to hellfire.

You shouldn't treat me like a Jew preventing me from posting on your wall but letting others of your ilk do so. God shows no partiality. Do you see how your evil conduct reflects your evil faith of thinking you were irresistibly selected like the Aryan race and the Jews sent off the gas chambers simply because they were born that way and with no opportunity of escape?

There are lots of Christians not just me: there are lots of us OSAS Arminians. God loves me and He would not allow someone like you to spend even one second in Heaven beside me, for that would be like letting a criminal out of jail who belongs there for life to allow them to attack their victims again. There is no sin in the New City. So there will be no folks walking around claiming they were irresistibly selected and psychotically priding themselves over others they think were sent to Hell just because they were born into sin.

I do believe most in Christendom are not saved since the Bible describes this as being fact in Matthew 13. Moreover, the New City is only 1379 x 1379 miles which I would say fits at most 1 billion souls. There are many unsaved tares trying to look like us saved wheat, but God said He will put His sickle to them in due time. I am not to root you out, that is, do anything to you other than expose you as the swine that you are. This is why I don't give unto you that which is holy, but simply keep you at bay explaining to you the essential fact of your unsalvation and the need to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. Amen.

Here's a detailed study of Matthew 13: http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Matthew_13.htm

In particular, you might want to first read about the difference between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God: http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/KKH.htm

Understand the 3 aspects of each, and how many in the outward appearance of the kingdom are unsaved; only those who are in the body of the Christ and the Church are children of the God. We are a "little flock" (Luke 12.32).

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And, I was indeed an OSAS Arminian before I was a Calvinist.

I take you on you word you think you were OSAS Arminian when you thought you gave your life to Christ, but many who thought they gave their lives to Christ later it turns out they never did. Just because you say you were doesn't mean you were. For the truth is if you did for real, then you would remain so, since once-saved-always-saved. The faith doesn't change later to Calvinism or Open Theism or Gnosticism, but one grows in the faith once established. The fact that you are flippant, changing faiths, indicates you were never grounded in the first place.

Think how odd it would sound if someone came to you and said they were saved on such and such a date as an open theist or as a Muslim but years later they are a Calvinist. Are you so liberal to think they were saved back then? Of course not. Well that's how you come across to me though you don't have the sensitivity to feel it and logically work out what I am saying.

We are only saved one way. To claim you were saved by repenting and believing in Christ to be regenerated yet now claim that is not how people are saved except for you strikes as being full blow delusional.

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I was convinced of the truth of Reformed Theology.

You may be convinced of Calvinism, but realize between you and I, you have never been able to come up with a single Scripture to support your faith so that seems like a big problem. I am getting the same vibe when I talk to Pentecostals, for they believe in gibberish babble, but never can they supply a verse of Scripture to support their faith. Your insertion and alteration are based on feelings or some logical mistaken assumption that binds you to Satan. This mistaken assumption is nothing more than a selfish concept that keeps you separated from God, because that is the way you want to be. Simply it is a selfish idea and reflecting the evil nature of your god.

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So a nominal carnal OSAS Arminian is saved... because they were once saved and are always saved...

Bu I become convinced of Reformed Theology and that proves I was a false convert from the start?

What twisted and incoherent nonsensical irrational non-logic.

A "nominal Christian" is considered an unsaved Christian so as the term goes, you are admitting you were never saved to begin with. "Nominal" according to the dictionary is "in name only not in actuality."

A clue to your own words is you were a "nominal OSAS Arminian" indicating in fact you never did give your life to Christ, that is, to the One who keeps.

Yes you were a false convert from the start because as was said: a) you claim were saved even though that is not how you think God saves (double tongue); b) as a Calvinist you are not saved.

I am glad you can't show anything illogical about this statement. It is quite sound don't you think?

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You have got to be the most self-absorbed and self-righteous person I have ever encountered.

Have fun with your little cult, for that is what you have started.
You are nothing more than another self-proclaimed apostle leading a cult.

That is why Revelation says to test those who say they are apostles and are not.
You are not an apostle.

To you the body of Christ (OSAS Arminians) a "little flock" (Luke 12.32) is a "little cult". What hostility!

Nothing is more self-absorbed and self-righteous than declaring to the world you are not one of those you claim are sent to Hell just because they were born into sin and on your pedestal pontificate you were irresistibly selected and did not have to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. It's very much like a person declaring he is God. Can you sense it yet?

Calvinism is a cult, but praise the Lord God has shown you how you can yet be saved one day like the person in that video who after 26 years as a Calvinist finally gave his life to Christ. Something for you to look forward to I pray as a possibility.

Satan hates the Apostles but notice like you he is unable to disprove I am an Apostle. Satan accuses prolifically, but one thing is always certain, he can never prove his accusation just like you. You don't even believe the Apostles exist to set up the churches anymore. You're a bad guy to say that for sure! Come out of this cult you are in that teaches irresistible regeneration and no more Apostles.

The Bible says test those who call themselves Apostles because there are no more Apostles? That is twisted.

I am not an Apostle to you but to the body of Christ.

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Tesel, Tesel, Mene, and Parsin

The Bible says to speak in the language a person understands to be considerate and conscientious. "Don't babble on and on as people of other religions do" (Matt. 6.7). "Except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air" (1 Cor. 14.9).

My prayers go out to you, you can yet change. "If any man eat...my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" (John 6.51). This verse does not say "If any man made to eat....for life of some in each class of the world." Thus, you can trust in the God of sufficient grace to all men. Praise the Lord! Amen.
12-12-2010, 03:30 PM
Parture

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Originally Posted by AtlantiansAnAlteran

I told you not to post on my wall because you have a nasty habit of ban evading and harassing people.

I never said I was nominal. I was responding to a video where you said carnal Christians were saved, but without rewards. Nominal = carnal.

You are a cult leader and are incapable of reasonable discussion.
I will have nothing more to do with you.

I don't mind you responding to this PM, but after that, any more communication from you will be considered harassment.

That's twisted. You said not to post on your wall because of ban evading? That's like Hitler (or the murderous protestant Pope of Geneva towards OSAS Arminians and anabaptists) saying to the Jews don't walk in the streets because you have a nasty way of hiding in your basements so don't do that when I come to collect your goods and send you off the gas chambers. And of course according to you then this would not be harassing the Jews just normal course of events of being racist and showing partiality. What love is that?

You are very much like Hitler and that murderous protestant Pope of Geneva John Calvin. They say Hitler could not have achieved what he did without Calvinism, working off the same source material, under the same teaching of "preterition" of sending children to Hell or to the gas chambers just because they were born that way AND irresistibly selecting the Aryan race from birth like Calvinists presume they are irresistibly selected and without having had to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. You guys are sick bastards to say the least!

Yes you described yourself as being "nominal" as I quoted you. To repeat, you said: "a nominal carnal OSAS Arminian is saved... because they were once saved and are always saved...". You said you were saved as a nominal OSAS Arminian but don't agree with it now. This is how you claim to be saved which contradicts your Calvinism and the meaning of the term "nominal". That which is nominal is only in appearance, not in reality. I agree you were never a true OSAS Arminian ever! Not then, not now.

Paul uses the term "carnal" referring to fleshly Christians, not nominal Christians. The term "nominal" according to the dictionary is "fake". The Bible uses the term "tares" that try to look like saved wheat as being nominal. That's you. You were and still are a "nominal Christian" in name, not in reality (2 Pet. 2.21).

Calvinism is a cult which should be evident enough for you since you still can't find one verse to support even one of the 5 points of Calvinism.

Try to keep your promise not to have anything to do with me and treat others as you would like to be treated by not responding again.

My prayers go out to you.