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Originally Posted by
briancook007
You obviously didn't read the Scripture references I gave regarding Acts 16:14. As I said, the Greek word translated "worshipped" in that verse is "sebo", the same word as is found in both Mat. 15:9 and Mk. 7:7, which say, "IN VAIN they worship Me...." Just because Lydia had worshiped God previously, it doesn't mean she was saved; that didn't happen until God regenerated her in Acts 16:14. As far as a remote island inhabitant goes, Rom. 1:18-20 answers that. You also said that Old Testament people didn't go to Hell; have you never read Lk. 16:19-31? You said God moves irresistibly on no one in salvation; have you never read Acts 9:3-6?
People can sebo not in vain. The problem with your theory is that all those prior to Christ would have gone to Hell. Where did I say people in the OT would not go to Hell? What I said was that some can be saved from the OT period because they believed in God, so surely they would accept the Messiah just as those today who believe in God so when they are presented the Christ they surely would accept Him. There is no reason to think Paul's experience irresistibly forced him to believe. He could easily still have kicked at the goads and rejected Christ. Many of the 500 who had seen Jesus alive from the dead could still have rejected Him. The disciples who were unwilling to eat of his flesh and drink of his blood walked away. So your arguments utterly fall on your head. God is not an evil tyrant.
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I never denied that the entire human race is commanded to repent (Acts 17:27, 30), but that doesn't mean God grants that to every member of the entire human race. What saith the Scriptures (NKJV)?
Jn. 3:27: "A man can receive NOTHING unless it has been GIVEN to him from heaven."
Jn. 6:65: "NO ONE can come to Me unless it has been GRANTED to him by My Father."
Acts 13:48: "And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
Phil. 1:29: "For to you it has been GRANTED...TO BELIEVE in Him...."
Acts 11:18: "God has also GRANTED...REPENTANCE to life."
II Tim. 2:25: "In humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will GRANT them REPENTANCE, so that they may know the truth."
Yes God is the provider, but none of these verses say God doesn't provide sufficient grace to all, for we read in Scripture, God wants none to perish; therefore, He provides sufficient grace to all and pleads with all.
You're repeating the same verses but you don't show how they agree with you as you insert your theory into them.
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Rom 9:16-24: "So then [it is] not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. "You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed [it], "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, [even] us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"
The Pharaoh hardened his own heart first.
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God's grace isn't irresistible in regeneration? What saith the Scriptures (NKJV)?
I Sam. 10:9: "So it was, when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, that God gave him another heart...."
Jn. 3:8: "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Rom. 9:16, 18: "So then [it is] not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens."
Tit. 3:5: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit."
Jn. 1:12-13: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God."
James 1:18: "OF HIS OWN WILL He brought us forth by the word of truth."
Where do any of these verses say God irresistibly imposes salvation? Stop inserting. That's your flesh.
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You miss the point. Man is dead, separated, in his natural state (Isa. 59:2, Eph. 2:1), and the only way spiritual communication can take place (Jn. 9:31a) is for God to regenerate him. Regeneration is dependent on God's own sovereign will (Jn. 3:8, Jas. 1:18), not on man's will (Jn. 1:13). Dr. A.T. Robertson, the greatest Koine Greek scholar of modern times, tells us in Word Pictures that "which were born" is in the passive voice, meaning that the subject is being acted upon and has nothing to do with the action other than being on the receiving end of it.
You miss the point. Man being dead doesn't mean Total inability, but lost communication. It indicates propensity to sin, not Total depravity. Certainly man is depraved but not Totally depraved, for man at the very least can help an old lady across the street and so can respond to God's call. John 9.31 is presenting a choice: believe and hear or remain as you are a sinner. A sinner can't be saved unless he gives his life to Christ. It doesn't say anything about having to be regenerated first before one can believe. Regeneration is certainly God's doing don't but is not disallowed to anyone, for if you search Him out with all your heart and soul and believe on Him, you shall be saved. This is my prayer for you that you receive Christ authentically and let go of the Satanic grace you are under.
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Many Jews were not saved in Old Testament times, as Paul tells us in Rom. 9:6-26; he says there that individual salvation is dependent on the sovereign will of God (Rom. 9:16, 18).
Many were saved also.
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God's election is unconditional, it is not based on anything seen in man (Rom. 9:16). You've really got your nerve accusing me of having a works-based belief system, a "selfish salvation"; if there's any such system here, it is yours, that of Arminianism. Saving faith is a work (Jn. 6:28-29); not in the sense of man's performing it to merit salvation, but in the sense of it being an action on his part. The Word of God says saving faith is God's gift to man, not man's gift to God (Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 1:29). You hold the position that man provides that apart from God's grace in salvation; if anybody here is promoting a works-based system, it is you. I never assumed anything about regeneration before I believed and repented, I just did those things; but I know that I did those things only because God allowed them to me. Faith and repentance are the fruits of regeneration, not the causes of it.
Romans 9.16 is saying you can't will salvation into being or work for it like Calvinists do by just assuming you were irresistibly made to repent or be regenerated. That's selfish and pompous. Calvinists try to will salvation into being by merely assuming regeneration without any prior repentance or faith. That will never do. You as a Calvinist work for your initial salvation since it was never your choice according to your theory, so you can't really know if you are saved. All you do is work for it in hopes that it turns out. God wants you to respond to Him to His work to be saved (John 6.28) by genuinely coming to the cross instead of pompously priding yourself over others you think you were irresistibly selected and they were not. What love is this? God is the provider of sufficient grace which affords us all the choice. You said you being Totally depraved just repented and believed. How can you just repent and believe if you are Totally depraved unless your god irresistibly imposes it on you and denies sufficient grace for all? This is an inherent contradiction of your faith which brings about the two-willed theory of a secret decretive will and a revealed prescriptive will which conflict with each and then not addressing this contradiction. God doesn't want all to be saved secretly, but tells everyone He does? If your god is a doubletalker, then you are a doubletalker.
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You said, "You don't really know if you are saved, that's why you work for it.....You reveal it yourself you are unsaved...." You referred to me as "someone who is Hellbound". You continue to judge my heart, a clear violation of the Scriptures (Mat. 7:1-2, Jas. 4:12).
You judge yourself, for you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. Matthew 7.1-2 does not say not to judge but that if you do judge, what judgment you judge by shall be judged upon you if you commit the same sin. I don't sin the sin of erecting an idol of Total depravity that prevents me from being able to obtain the gift of repentance and faith to truly believe in Christ and be regenerated. If you are to judge, like we throw people in jail for their crimes, make sure your judgment is the judgment of the Law Giver.
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You hear me now, sir. I'm not afraid of you or the Devil that's motivating you, and don't you ever forget it. I have every authority, whether you recognize it or not, to use Rom. 12:14 in the Name of Christ by His grace, as I am His child, despite your false accusations to the contrary. You may rebuke me all you please, but that doesn't change things, nor does it intimidate me.
You said the Devil is motivating me which is judging, but in your previous paragraph you said not to judge. The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8). This shows you are using Scripture selfishly. You have not authority, for how can someone who is not even born-again have any authority in God's kingdom? The purpose of me telling you these things is not to intimidate you, but to tell you the truth God provides sufficient grace to all. He is a just and and fair God. Why should His standards be less than ours? He regenerates no one irresistibly. It is wrong for us to irresistibly impose ourselves on others, so it is true for God also. He rejects idols such as Total depravity, for you are made in God's image and are not Totally unable. You did not cease to be made in God's image after the fall. This is a selfish theory that you erect that prevents you from truly repenting and believing in Christ to be regenerated. Very sad. How deceitful is man's heart in his wiles and ways. Who can know how deceitful man's heart really is!
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You have attacked me unjustly. I respectfully call upon the Lord Jesus Christ to defend me in this, as He is my only Defense (II Sam. 22:31c). You have accused me falsely of unbelief and of heresy, which I now forgive in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ by His grace (Jn. 15:5c) per His command (Mk. 11:25-26). I also bless you in His Name by His grace per His command (Rom. 12:14).
You accuse yourself for you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. God is not an evil tyrant as you surmise like Hitler who from birth determines the Jews belong in the gas chambers without giving them any recourse whatsoever, or saving the Aryan race irresistibly even though they are want to remain sinners.
Think about that. God will not entertain your false and selfish salvation. One of the greatest evils of our day is Calvinism and no doubt, Satan will have his Antichrist use it in some fashion at the consummation of this age. Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, are saved. Jesus responds by saying He never knew you O prideful Calvinist man who claims to be irresistibly selected. Shame on you!