How Do Roman Catholics Misread the Bible about the 1000 Years?

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

The Church is the New Israel, and the Church is One Body (albeit a bit dysfunctional at this point in time) so that has come to pass.

And when the Church follows the Lord's command to participate in the Lord's Supper, he comes to us, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, in the Eucharist.

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You forgot the spirit, the most important part of man.

I believe God keeps in mind 3 groups at all times: Israel, Gentile Nations, Church. Israel is the first nation God revealed Himself to and maintains His promise to one day make them the center of all nations from where Jesus will reign 1000 years in the 3rd Temple.

Revelation 20.3 says, "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Are the nations deceived today? Yes. They war and we hear rumours of wars. Therefore, is the 1000 years occurring now? No. Of course not.

Has Satan been thrown into the pit for 1000 years yet? No. Of course not. He is still operating from 2nd heaven deceiving the world; he is even called the god of this world today.

When Jesus returns to reign on earth for 1000 years He casts Satan into the pit then at the end of the millennial kingdom, "after that he must be loosed a little season."

Why does God loose Satan from the pit for a short while at the end of the 1000 years? To show Satan will never repent, God's good pleasure to finally remove Satan by casting him into Hell for eternity with all the unregenerates, Roman Catholics and other unsaved souls. And to show that man still yet had some hidden sin and selfishnesses.

This is all done before the New City (New Jerusalem) and the New Earth commence, that John viewed from that great high mountain in Revelation, called Mount Olympus, the largest mountain in the solar system on Mars.

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The following is an an article called "Israel and the Church" by James Akin. Pay special attention to the two paragraphs I highlighted in red:


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One of the disputes in Protestant circles is over the relationship between Israel and the Church and whether God still has a special purpose for the ethnic people of Israel in his plan of the ages. Two of the chief disputants are the Protestant schools of thought known as "dispensationalism" and "covenant theology." The former is a relative newcomer on the Protestant scene and was started in the 1830s by an Englishman named John Nelson Darby. A distinctive characteristic of dispensationalism is its insistence that God’s plan of the ages focuses chiefly around the ethnic people of Israel.

With the close of the Church age, many dispensationalists have said they expect God to turn away from dealing with the Gentiles and turn again to dealing primarily with the Jews.This affects dispensationalism’s reading of the book of Revelation as well as much of the rest of biblical prophecy. Dispensationalists see Revelation as a blueprint of future events, chiefly concerning the Jewish people, leading up to a future, earthly reign of Christ known as the Millennium.

During the Millennium, they believe, Israel will be restored as a nation, will return to offering animal sacrifices (in commemoration of Christ’s death on the cross), and will be the most favored nation on earth, with Jesus physically ruling in its capitol. In dispensational thought, the Jews may also have a special status in the eternal order that follows the Millennium.

Covenant theology is much more in line with what traditional Protestant views have been. It tends to be amillennial, viewing the Millennium as the present reign of Christ in heaven and, through the Church, on earth. This is the historic Protestant view, in contrast to dispensationalism's pre-millennial (future earthly reign of Christ) stance.

Covenant theology thus does not take Revelation as a checklist of future events but as a prophecy of events occurring at the beginning of or all through Church history. Consequently it does not see Revelation as a record of God’s future dealings with the Jewish people. When dealing with apparently unfulfilled prophecies that speak expressly of Israel—such as those in many of the Old Testament prophets—covenant theologians tend to apply them to the Church, arguing that the Church is the spiritual Israel. This "transfer" of prophecies from ethnic Israel to the Church does not go over well with dispensationalists.

If we may speak of the two systems in their unqualified forms, dispensationalism asserts that God still has future plans for the Jewish people and deduces that the Church is not spiritual Israel; covenant theology asserts that the Church is spiritual Israel and deduces that God has no future plans for the Jews different than his plans for any other people.

Both systems cite Scripture for the major premises of their arguments, and the verses they cite seem successful in showing these points. The problem is not with the Scripture passages cited by the two groups but with the conclusions they draw from them. It is the constraints of the two systems that keep their adherents from recognizing that the inferences they make do not follow.

The Catholic Church is able to acknowledge the truth that is found in both positions. Along with the dispensationalists the Church acknowledges that God does still have plans for the Jews as a unique people (Catechism of the Catholic Church 674). Paul clearly indicates this in his writings, especially in Romans 9–11, where he indicates God continues to fulfill his promises about the Jewish people by preserving a remnant of Jewish believers in Christ (11:1–5). This indicates a special place for Israel, for no other people has a promise that there will always be a believing remnant. God also has future plans for the Jewish people: One day the Jewish people as a nation will return to Christ, and this will be one of the signs of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead (11:12, 15).

On the other hand, along with covenant theologians, Catholics acknowledge that the Church is spiritual Israel or, in Catholic parlance, the "new Israel" (cf. CCC 877). This too is indicated in Paul’s writings: In Romans 9:6 he says that "not all who are of Israel are Israel." This indicates the existence of two Israels. One—"all who are of Israel"—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a "spiritual Israel." It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29).

In his letter to the Ephesians Paul is even more explicit about the Gentiles’ spiritual inclusion when he states that "you Gentiles in the flesh . . . were [once] separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel . . . But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near . . . So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints" (2:11–13, 19).

Thus the Catholic Church, not being constrained by the new theological systems of dispensationalism and covenant theology, is able to avoid the extremes of both while it acknowledges the truths both contain—as it has since before either was invented.
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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

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The following is an an article called "Israel and the Church" by James Akin. Pay special attention to the two paragraphs I highlighted in red:

(QUOTE)
One of the disputes in Protestant circles is over the relationship between Israel and the Church and whether God still has a special purpose for the ethnic people of Israel in his plan of the ages. Two of the chief disputants are the Protestant schools of thought known as "dispensationalism" and "covenant theology." The former is a relative newcomer on the Protestant scene and was started in the 1830s by an Englishman named John Nelson Darby. A distinctive characteristic of dispensationalism is its insistence that God’s plan of the ages focuses chiefly around the ethnic people of Israel.

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I disagree this is new. It is the original called "chiliasm" in the first century, another word for premillennialism, same thing as dispensationalism. It is the amillennial view that came later with the Roman Church. God always keeps in view three groups: Israel, Church, nations. What Darby did was bring out what was already there that there was a rapture before the Tribulation. Of course he was wrong in that he did not recognize the first rapture is according to readiness, not for the whole Church.

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With the close of the Church age, many dispensationalists have said they expect God to turn away from dealing with the Gentiles and turn again to dealing primarily with the Jews.This affects dispensationalism’s reading of the book of Revelation as well as much of the rest of biblical prophecy. Dispensationalists see Revelation as a blueprint of future events, chiefly concerning the Jewish people, leading up to a future, earthly reign of Christ known as the Millennium.

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Dispensationalists don't believe God is going to turn away from the Gentiles. I think He can deal with both Gentiles and Israel at the same time. What is being returned is simply Israel coming back into view as a nation again 1948, slowly regaining the land to the Euphrates River (Gen. 15.18), and the world is seeing who is the center of all nations. Actually dispensationalists don't view the book of Revelation as dealing primarily with Israel, but it is mostly to do with judgment upon all nations as well as rapture. Naturally Israel is in focus because the Temple construction begins and is completed with 2300 days left remaining to the end of the Tribulation. The Tribulation last 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av, Aug. 7, 2022.

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During the Millennium, they believe, Israel will be restored as a nation, will return to offering animal sacrifices (in commemoration of Christ’s death on the cross), and will be the most favored nation on earth, with Jesus physically ruling in its capitol. In dispensational thought, the Jews may also have a special status in the eternal order that follows the Millennium.

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The offering of animal sacrifices is actually a sin after Jesus became the fulfillment of those sacrifices. God never asked Israel to do this in the 3rd Temple, only points out that they will do it in defiance of Him during the Tribulation. In the millennium Jesus will live in the Temple. Jesus won't be having any animal sacrifices in His accommodations. Silly. The Jews will not have a special status other than being the center of all nations. The reward is given to be kings and priests to the overcomers, those who overcometh in Christ. Such a reward is not given to all believers.

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Covenant theology is much more in line with what traditional Protestant views have been. It tends to be amillennial, viewing the Millennium as the present reign of Christ in heaven and, through the Church, on earth. This is the historic Protestant view, in contrast to dispensationalism's pre-millennial (future earthly reign of Christ) stance.

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Covenant theology is defined as amillennial. It historical but not the original view, for the earliest view was chiliasm otherwise known as premillennialism. God has His covenants in the premillennial view. Amillennialism is wrong because obviously Jesus is not reigning with a rod of iron right now over the nations and the nations are still deceived. They won't be deceived in the 1000 years (Rev. 20.3).

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Covenant theology thus does not take Revelation as a checklist of future events but as a prophecy of events occurring at the beginning of or all through Church history. Consequently it does not see Revelation as a record of God’s future dealings with the Jewish people. When dealing with apparently unfulfilled prophecies that speak expressly of Israel—such as those in many of the Old Testament prophets—covenant theologians tend to apply them to the Church, arguing that the Church is the spiritual Israel. This "transfer" of prophecies from ethnic Israel to the Church does not go over well with dispensationalists.

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Dispensational partial rapture treats Rev. 2 & 3 as the 7 church periods. Rev. 4 as the picture of the universe from heaven. Rev. 5 recounts the cross commensurate with the 1st Seal which is the cross. The 4 Seals are the past 20 centuries. The 5th Seal is the first rapture of martyrs from the past 20 centuries, to be raptured with living overcomers "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven, before the trumpets of the Tribulation commence (8.7ff). The 6th Seal are the events shortly before the Tribulation starts so we can identify when it starts, and the 7th Seal opens up the 7 trumpets of the Tribulation.

It would be quite strange not to treat the book of Revelation as a book of prophecy and the future for Gen. 2 gives the details of Gen. 1, so we should expect in the last book of the Bible, Rev. 12 to 19 to give the details of the major points of the Tribulation in Rev. 7 to 11.

The true Jew is the Christian, but this does not annihilate Israel. Israel is still a nation, the very nation God has a covenant promise to keep to make the center of all nations. The Church comes in into view vaguely from the OT, but it really depends on the words of Jesus for clarity.

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If we may speak of the two systems in their unqualified forms, dispensationalism asserts that God still has future plans for the Jewish people and deduces that the Church is not spiritual Israel; covenant theology asserts that the Church is spiritual Israel and deduces that God has no future plans for the Jews different than his plans for any other people.

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Ezekiel's prophecy on his side takes us to exactly May, 1948. 2 Thess. 2.4 shows the Temple is completed at least part way through the Tribulation. The Temple is where? Israel. Israel is the center of the action not Rome at all.

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Both systems cite Scripture for the major premises of their arguments, and the verses they cite seem successful in showing these points. The problem is not with the Scripture passages cited by the two groups but with the conclusions they draw from them. It is the constraints of the two systems that keep their adherents from recognizing that the inferences they make do not follow. The Catholic Church is able to acknowledge the truth that is found in both positions. Along with the dispensationalists the Church acknowledges that God does still have plans for the Jews as a unique people (Catechism of the Catholic Church 674). Paul clearly indicates this in his writings, especially in Romans 9–11, where he indicates God continues to fulfill his promises about the Jewish people by preserving a remnant of Jewish believers in Christ (11:1–5). This indicates a special place for Israel, for no other people has a promise that there will always be a believing remnant. God also has future plans for the Jewish people: One day the Jewish people as a nation will return to Christ, and this will be one of the signs of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead (11:12, 15).

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Rev. 7.1-8 shows a remnant of not Christians but Jews from the 12 tribes that make up the nation of Israel. Whereas Rev. 14.1-5 are Christians and particular Christians closest to the Lord for keeping their virginity. Jews bewail virginity. This remnant of Jews will flee during the Great Tribulation but shall be protected likely in the city Petra. Hebrews is effectively saying the true Jew should be a Christian. That is a separate issue than preserving Israel as a nation. Any of those 144,000 like any other Jewish person would still need to give his or her life to Christ individually. The Catholic Church is plainly wrong since the 1000 years is not now. The remnant are of two kinds: those Jews who are Christians and simply a remnant to keep Israel as a nation going. Those Jews as a remnant who believe in Christ is what Jesus is talking about when He says they will not believe in Him again till He returns. Preserving Israel as a nation is a separate matter which would include both saved Jews and non-saved Jews, obviously, for what nation exists with 100% of its populace believing the exact same thing?

Rev. 11.12 is the resurrection of Enoch and Elijah. Rev. 11.15 refers to the resurrection and rapture at the start of the 7th trumpet before the bowls of wrath are poured out. Christians are not appointed unto wrath.

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On the other hand, along with covenant theologians, Catholics acknowledge that the Church is spiritual Israel or, in Catholic parlance, the "new Israel" (cf. CCC 877). This too is indicated in Paul’s writings: In Romans 9:6 he says that "not all who are of Israel are Israel." This indicates the existence of two Israels. One—"all who are of Israel"—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a "spiritual Israel." It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29). In his letter to the Ephesians Paul is even more explicit about the Gentiles’ spiritual inclusion when he states that "you Gentiles in the flesh . . . were [once] separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel . . . But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near . . . So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints" (2:11–13, 19).

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But amillennialism is wrong, hence the Roman Church is false, because Jesus is not reigning with a rod of iron today and the nations are still deceived. They won't be deceived in the 1000 years. (Rev. 20.3).

The Roman Church is trying to exalt itself in this world, but God is going to let Satan destroy it by a nuclear explosion in the first half of the 7 year Tribulation. The first half of the Tribulation is Rev. 8. Please read the language unveiling that destruction connected to Rev. 17.16. The Roman Church has no place in the millennial kingdom. It will be utterly demolished and disintegrated. Sorta sad to see that since some of those a very nice buildings in the Vatican, but I hope they will be able to preserve the archives they have hidden deep underground in vaults.

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Thus the Catholic Church, not being constrained by the new theological systems of dispensationalism and covenant theology, is able to avoid the extremes of both while it acknowledges the truths both contain—as it has since before either was invented.
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Since dispensationalism is the original and God has His covenant with Israel that the Church has received beforehand because Israel has rejected their Messiah, what is false is amillennialism. Amillennialism is not merely some extreme view, but absolutely and totally false. Jesus is not reigning today for 1000 years. He will though when He returns. The amillennial view tries to exalt man and not Christ, as man tries to exalt himself through another system God has not ordained. I suppose the Roman Catholic won't take this seriously and consider what we are saying until a nuclear bomb blows up the Vatican. It will come to that because that is how decrepit the Roman Church is.

There is no extreme to the dispensational view. Israel is being set up to be the center of all nations, not Rome. Jesus will reign from the 3rd Temple. And there will be both a remnant of Israel to maintain the nation as well as a remnant of Jews who believe in Christ. Simple.

So very simple!

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But amillennialism is wrong, hence the Roman Church is false.......

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LOL. Give me a break! You hold to a new-fangled doctrine that is no older than 200 years: The Catholic Church holds to the 2000 year old traditional constant teaching of Christianity on this matter. You have a lot of nerve saying WE are wrong & false while you adhere to some neo-Christian novelty.

As far as the millennium goes, we agree with the great St. Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial", and so has the position of the majority Christians in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers! The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism". In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though we do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]). We just believe it will happen on the last day.

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

LOL. Give me a break! You hold to a new-fangled doctrine that is no older than 200 years: The Catholic Church holds to the 2000 year old traditional constant teaching of Christianity on this matter. You have a lot of nerve saying WE are wrong & false while you adhere to some neo-Christian novelty.

As far as the millennium goes, we agree with the great St. Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial", and so has the position of the majority Christians in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers! The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism". In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though we do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]). We just believe it will happen on the last day.

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Chiliasm is the word the church fathers used for premillennialism in the first and second centuries so you are just being ignorant deluding yourself it was invented 200 years ago. That is some bold dishonesty and like a cult shutting your mind down to this evidence. The Roman Church came along for centuries after Christ.

St. Augustine worshiped a false Christ. He was Calvinistic and amillennialistic who obviously is wrong since Rev. 20.3 says the nations are not deceived in the 1000 years yet they are deceived now. You keep avoiding this key point.

The majority of Christians? Just because you say they are Christians doesn't mean they are. The New City can't fit that many in it. It's only 1379 miles x 1379 miles. What you should have said is the majority of Christendom. In the outward appearance of the kingdom, most who call themselves Christians are actually unsaved.

Go with popularity, but that would not be in keeping with the "little flock" (Luke 12.32).

As long as you continue not to deal with Rev. 20.3 why should anyone take you seriously or any amillennialist for that matter?

I see the Roman church's false teachings so she fits perfectly with Rev. 14.8 as the great harlot that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications and sits on the beast influencing the nations. She is like a mustard seed that grows into a great tree and birds like demons land on her branches. She is rotten through and through. The only verdict is her death.

Your last day single glory syndrome as far as I can see doesn't address verses like Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10 at 7.9 before the throne, before any of the trumpets of the Tribulation take place. Let us not legalize rapture, but allow for the fact since there are verses that support a rapture before the Tribulation and near the end of the Tribulation then instead of fighting over it, recognize both can be true if the first rapture is according to readiness. And that is exactly what we find in these conditional statements.

And since Jesus returns to reign on earth for 1000 years, not all takes place in heaven when Jesus returns for Jesus will be on earth with 10,000 saints (Jude 14,15) reigning over the nations (Rev. 2.26).

So you can see nothing make much sense with the view held by the Roman church and we haven't even touched on the other problems yet like presenting a false salvation by works. Salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast. You don't have the strength to keep yourself saved if you were saved; nor do you have the the option to leave salvation if you were saved, because only a person who gives their live to Christ to be kept is actually saved. If you don't want to give your life to the Jesus who keeps, then you worship a false Christ.

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

....says the person who just called 1.3 billion Christians "The Harlot."

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"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." (17.6). Should this woman point to political Rome, where is the wonder or surprise to be found in that? She instead must be religious Rome-the Roman Church-and hence the amazement. It is not at all surprising for the nations to persecute Christians; but for the Roman Church to persecute Christians, this is really astounding. The Roman Church is notorious for killing Christians in their various inquisitions. What love is that?

According to Revelation 17 and 18 the Roman Catholic Church will experience tremendous growth in the future, far exceeding that of the past. Her influence will be enormous. But when Antichrist shall arise and set up his image as an object of worship, he with his ten subordinate kings shall destroy the Roman Church. Nevertheless, with the passing of Rome religious, Rome political will still continue. She will make the Mediterranean Sea a center of her influence.

Why does God call this woman a harlot? Because she communicates and commingles with the world. She has so broadened the communion of the saints as to hold inter course with the world. What she gains is worldly pleasure and earthly glory. She has become savorless salt. A harlot is one who commits fornication without the due process of marriage. An adulteress is a woman who commits fornication after being married. God therefore calls her a harlot, since a harlot is a woman who commits fornication before marriage; thus signifying that God has never recognized the relationship between the Roman Church and Christ. Like a harlot, the Roman Church has not kept her virginity for Christ.

This woman is called a "great harlot": Had the Roman Catholic Church observed Matthew 5-7, she could not be great—she could only develop into a "little flock" (Luke 12.32). Her testimony would simply be that the world is rebellious and that Christ shall come again to judge it. Her being "great" is exactly what the Lord predicted in Matthew 13.32. In this connection we need to read Genesis 1 which states that "the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after their kind" (v.12). Yet Matthew 13 records the Lord Jesus as saying this: "When it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becometh a tree" (v.32). Hence the greatness here described in Revelation is the greatness of a harlot. Please observe that the Romish pope is greater than an emperor. An emperor can only control a man’s body, but a pope can control a man’s soul, yes, even that of the emperor’s. Now such a situation is not at all normal for the church on earth.

In order to please the kings of the earth, the Roman Church was willing to baptize them as long as they wished to be baptized. Thus, she auctioned away the principles of Christ and the word of God.

I'm just getting warmed up. Do you want more?

I wouldn't worry too much about all of this. What I would advice any person to worry about is this: the Lord warned us against sin and false teachings. Therefore, if you are not moving forward, it would be wise to start conforming to His image.

This word of God is given, for obviously God wants us to be concerned with it and not be deceived by the Roman Church and its heresies.

You can't conform to His image if you are not in Christ, so since a Roman Catholic is not born-again, all their works are in vain.