7th Day Adventists Try to Alter God's Word in Several Ways to Worship a False Christ
Re: Cyndee Holm
afbiblequestions@amazingfacts.org
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Originally Posted by Cyndee Holm
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Originally Posted by Parture
If you consider the mark of the beast to be worshiping on Sunday, how do you deal with these problems? 1) If the mark of the beast is the implant under the skin do you agree you will go to Hell?
1. We don't believe the implant itself is the mark. The mark represents compliance with the laws of the beast. If you do not comply with the laws of the beast you cannot buy or sell. As it was in the days of Esther where the people were penalized for not bowing down to Haman, there will be similar religious laws in the last days. Those laws may incorporate the use of some kind of card or computer tracking system, but the mark itself is not an external mark. Some people may have computer chips inserted against their will. That does not mean that they now have the mark and are doomed. They can still choose to follow God's commandments and be faithful and true to Him!
You said it is "computer chips inserted" and "represents compliance with the laws of the beast," but "the mark itself is not an external mark." It seems to me you have a doubletongue like Satan. The Bible says be "not doubletonged" (1 Tim. 3.8). It is physical and it is not physical? Revelation 14.11 says, "whosoever receiveth the mark of his name" which suggests that, of course, you will not be judged if it is forced on you, only if you receive it willingly; but that doesn't change the fact it is a physical implant to be able to buy or sell as the ultimate sign of allegiance whose side you stand on. Mere allegiance only does not facilitate that function: there needs be functionality with the physical device. "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Rev. 13.16,17). This is clearly physical, for it is a definite physical description "in". It is in no way suggesting some choice only, but a choice as affirmed by taking a physical mark. Of course those who reject Christ are going to Hell, but so too are those who take the implant willingly. No words need be spoken. Simply receiving the mark is enough to show they reject God of the Bible.
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2) Since the Bible says let no man judge you on what days to keep let him be an athema.
2. I think you are referring to Colossians 2:16, although it does not say let him be anathema. According to Colossians 2:14-17 a certain law of ordinances was nailed to the cross. This was the ceremonial law of types and shadows that pointed forward to the death of Jesus and that had no further meaning beyond the cross. This is why Paul said it was contrary to the Christian. The torn veil in the temple at the death of Christ (Matt. 27:51) indicated the end of the ordinance of animal sacrifices, and Eph. 2:15 says that Jesus “abolished…the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Cor. 16.22). These are not empty words spoken by Paul. They have application in real life. How are you loving the Lord creating laws for yourself against God's will? Col. 2.16 is preceded immediately by "God disarmed the evil rulers and authorities. He shamed them openly by his victory over them on the cross of Christ" (v.15). Verse 16 then says, "So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths." Clearly, Paul is considering those who try to keep such laws an athema because to try to keep such laws, even one's own laws unto oneself, is that of evil rulers and authorities as in your in cult of 7th Day Adventism. As the demonic spirits you follow try to show themselves openly with the implant under the skin and you try to keep the Sabbath or deciding on what foods you can eat, Jesus responds openly by the cross where "He shamed them openly by His victory over them on the cross." It's like you are trying to put Jesus to shame and rendering His work on the cross of no effect since you are unwilling to die to the law with Christ on the cross. Since you still try to keep the Sabbath which is consummated in the Holy Spirit rest now indwelling, again, I see your doubletalk, because if it is nailed to the cross, then you don't have to keep that Old Testament law, yet you said the death on the cross is the "end of ordinances." Let no man judge you on what days to keep. "Jesus has filled up this law Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ" (Col. 2.17). Therefore, I rebuke you in the name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit for your Sabbatarianism.
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Aren't you really atheists in a way since you believe in annihilationism?
when the Bible says none will ever die in Hell.Take note that Colossians 2:16, 17 refers to the yearly sabbaths and not the weekly Sabbath of the moral law. These shadowy sabbaths are described in Leviticus 23:24-37. They fell on certain set days of the month—a different day of the week each year, yet they were called sabbaths. But please observe in verses 37 and 38 how they were distinguished from the weekly Sabbath: “These are the feasts of the Lord which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, every thing upon his day, beside the sabbaths of the Lord.” The law of the yearly sabbaths, with all its meat and drink offerings, was nailed to the cross, but the great Ten Commandment law with its weekly Sabbath was not affected by that “blotting out” of ordinances.
God is clear let no man judge you on what "days to keep": "or in respect of a day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths" (Col. 2.16). Let us not assume into the text more than what is said-it includes all sabbaths and all days. Read Col. 2.16 again. All it says is sabbaths, so it includes any sabbath. All sabbaths are shadowy. Lev. 23 is discerning the sabbaths, not saying under the new dispensation you still have to keep some sabbaths but not others. How silly! 7th Day Adventism is a cult through and through and this is your idolatry you erect which is an athema to God.
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The weekly Sabbath is different from all the other feasts and holy convocations (see Leviticus 23:37, 38) in that it originated at creation (Gen. 2:1–3), whereas the annual feasts and “sabbaths” had their origin with the Jewish nation. The seventh-day Sabbath “was made for man” (Mark 2:27), and hence is of obligation for all men forever; the annual feasts were made for the Jews and ceased to be of obligation when the symbol became reality at the death of Christ (Col. 2:16, 17). The seventh-day Sabbath is incorporated in the law of God, the Ten Commandments, His constitution for this world. Because it was made before sin entered, it will remain after sin is no more (Isa. 66:22, 23). On the other hand, the annual Jewish feasts were of only temporal, local, ceremonial application, fitted to conditions in Palestine, and could not be made of worldwide application.
The weekly sabbath is a sabbath too; nowhere is suggested otherwise. Can we read the Bible without inserting or assuming anything? Since Jesus died on the cross it is not obligated anymore. Jesus fulfilled all Sabbaths in His death on the cross. Both the annual sabbath and the weekly sabbath were made for the Jews only as a sign of covenant for the Jews. As God rested on the 7th day, that rest now is the Holy Spirit indwelling every day. After the millennial kingdom all these things pass away. While these laws are still there, they are fulfilled in Christ. Therefore, we are not to judge others by what days to keep, because that is an athema to God, worshiping a false Christ. For example, practically, people often need to work on Saturday, but if they did according to your law you are suppose to stone them to death or let yourself be stoned to death for working on a sabbath. Technically according to your faith you should be murdered. Your faith is Satanic. "But the Lord replied, 'You hypocrite! You work on the Sabbath day! Don't you untie your ox or your donkey from their stalls on the Sabbath and lead them out for water?'" (Luke 13.15)
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Luke 4:16 makes it clear that Jesus kept the seventh-day Sabbath. It is true that Jesus was a Jew. However, through His disciples, He was the founder of the Christian church. The Bible gives no record of Him authorizing a change to Sunday, and the apostles continued to keep Saturday. The Bible would certainly have recorded the furor such a change would have caused had He advocated it, but it is totally silent. It is also interesting to note that Jesus said in regard to the time of trouble in Matthew 24, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." This indicates that He expected the Sabbath to be kept to the end of time by His people.
The Lord's day is not a change of day, so this misconception you have is wrong off the bat. The Lord's day has nothing to do with the Sabbath. Sabbath under the Old Testament was a day no work could be done. The Lord's day is a day which work can be done is full of spiritual vibrant activity. Remember, the Sabbath was a sign of covenant for the Jews under the law, but we are no longer under the law, for we who are in Christ and the true Jew is a Christian now has died to the law. The Apostles were found fellowshipping on Sunday more so than on Saturday. Since there was no change of days, why would the Bible need to mention a change of days? The law of the Sabbath was simply consummated in Jesus filling it up by the Holy Spirit indwelling every day. What we are told is let no man judge you on what days to keep, so that there is no longer a day for the Jews to keep. What flight on the Sabbath indicates is such flight would involve a work, so the Sabbath can be kept by a person, but it is not required anymore. Some people may keep a Tuesday or Thursday instead to devote extra time to the Lord and for fellowship.
Luke 4.16 doesn't say one must keep the Sabbath but he went to the Jews on a Sabbath, and this is a transition showing Jesus kept the Sabbath before His crucifixion, but no longer did so after His resurrection. He fellowshipped with the disciples on the Lord's day after His resurrection. This is the Jesus you reject. It was the "the Lord's Day" John worshiped in the spirit (Rev. 1.10) not the Sabbath. "On the first day of the week, we gathered to observe the Lord's Supper. Paul was preaching; and since he was leaving the next day, he talked until midnight" (Acts 20.7).
"Now upon the first day of the week . . . And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. . . . Jesus himself drew near ... But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, ... 'our chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done'" (Luke 24.1,13,21).
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From my perspective, the Sabbath is a day of rest from our own works, a weekly reminder that we are to worship and honor the One Who created us. We rest not only from physical labor, but also recognize that on a spiritual level, our salvation is based on God’s grace and not our own works. We are also acknowledging God’s authority over man’s traditions.
Yet the Sabbath need not be kept so he doesn't need to be stoned to death if he doesn't keep your self-indulgent sabbath, that is not the sabbath to the Jews to be kept under the old dispensation. A person's circumstances may require him to work 2 weeks on and two weeks off. You are a legalizer, but praise the Lord the word of God says, "So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain days or new-moon ceremonies or [any] sabbaths" (Col. 2.16).
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Aren't you really atheists in a way since you believe in annihilationism? when the Bible says none will ever die in Hell.
3. No, we are definitely not athiests! We believe the true view of hell and death demonstrate the very loving character of God. He wants everyone to serve Him out of love not fear. We believe that the second death is hell. Sinners who do not repent and accept the free offer of salvation will be destroyed once and for all in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). God does not allow them to be tormented forever and ever. The same word that describes the fires of hell as “eternal” or “everlasting” also is used in reference to the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 7), but those fires went out long ago. The Greek word “aion,” which we normally translate “eternal,” means “as long as a thing lasts.” In the case of God that truly is forever and ever, while a fire goes out after it has consumed the material it is burning. That is why it tells us in Malachi 4:1, “For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” The effects of the second death by fire that destroys the wicked are definitely everlasting, as they will never experience life again. Justice in this sinful earth, if properly administered, is according to the offense. For one lifetime of sin could God allow an individual to suffer agony through all eternity without relief? You can find more on this topic at
www.helltruth.com
Certainly you are atheist in this regard of annihilationism. The second death is Hell. Hell is the lake of fire. God lets them be tormented forever and ever as they wish. God does not eradicate our free will, for with free will comes the choice to be eternally separated from God and thus punished commensurately whatever that may righteously entail. It is not for us to judge God is being unfair for you to alter God's word and pronounce annihilationism instead.
Unlike any natural fire that burns out, this one never does. "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone" (14.10), and "they have no rest day nor night" (v.11), for it "will never burn out" (Matt. 25.41). They "will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out" (Is. 66.24).
To Christians to be in Hell forever is a torment, but for the unregenerate or false Christian, such as yourself, you lock yourself in Hell for eternity. You are the one who does it. Realize this instead of blaming God for what you want ultimately in the false Christ you prefer. It becomes at that point more painful for you to give up your life for Christ than to remain eternally separated from God in the lake of fire. Sodom and Gomorrah reflect judgment not Hell itself.
aiōnios in Jude 7 is
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
NOT "as long as a thing lasts." That's the complete opposite. Don't try to remove from the English language the word for everlasting. You will go to eternal damnation.
You're trying to compare physical fire of Sodom and Gomorrah with the eternal fire of torment in Hell you will suffer. That fire never goes out. Malachi 4.1 is speaking in the flesh, not in resurrected bodies. Even you will be resurrected, but for Hell, the Lake of Fire. They will have no "root" in this world. Their rulership and control in this world will soon fade away.
Since Scripture was given to you that those in Hell will never cease to exist, you'll have to deal with those verses. Your main issue seems to me in this life it is unfair to determine eternity by your choice in these short few years. But realize reality. I am not aware of anyone in their 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, etc. who have given their lives to Christ, so their choice has long since been made up. Why would they need another hundred years or a billion years for that matter to decide? It is evil of God to let His children be punished with your presence for a billion years. In this life many punishments go unpunished. They will be reconciled in eternity future. It is not like you will have a change of mind after they are resurrected. Your decision is made so how appropriate it is what Jesus said you are "condemned already" (John 3.18). You would rather be in Hell, for it is more intriguing to you than to be with God since you reject the God who created Hell and who filled up the Sabbath you still try to keep. Of the 10 commandments there is one we no longer keep, because it is ceremonial, and that is the Sabbath Sunday which was a sign of covenant from God the Jews were His chosen people to user in the Messiah.
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4) Since the Judgment Seat has not taken place yet how can you have an investigative judgment in 1844ff?
4. There is more than one aspect to judgment. There is a process that goes on in which a person is judged and determined to be guilty or innocent. This is taking place in heaven right now. (Hebrews 4:15,16). There is also a phase in which the righteous will be given the opportunity to look at the books of heaven and see how wise God has been in making the decisions He has made in regards to who will be saved and who will be lost. This is referred to in Revelation 20:4: “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:” This occurs during the millennium when the righteous are in heaven. Then there is a final aspect of judgment in which the person actually receives the penalty of their actions. It is this final aspect that Hebrews 9:27, 28 is referring to. “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
There is only one Judgment Seat. It is no a process. It is precise. And it does not commence until Daniel's final seven. Nothing in the interim is suggested otherwise. Rev. 14.14-16 are the regenerated who are raptured at the last trumpet in Daniel's last seven. They were preceded by a firstfruits (Rev. 14.1-5) before the Tribulation. Immediately after resurrection comes the judgment (Heb. 9.27,28). Since nobody is resurrected yet, there is no investigative judgment. Heb. 14.15-16 doesn't talk about the Judgment Seat. Rev. 20.4 is the first resurrection, that is the reward given to those who overcome who will reign during the 1000 years. They are not in Heaven, but they have returned with Christ to reign for 1000 years. "Judgment was given unto them" and "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Jude 14,15 says they return with Christ to reign on earth. They are not in heaven. Many do not have faith to believe this, for they worship a false Christ and practice necromancy of claiming communication with those you think have been resurrected already. Nobody has been resurrected yet, not even David a man after God's own heart (Acts 2.34). The penalty for the unsaved who are resurrected to the Great White Throne to be judged and cast into Hell for all eternity goes on forever in conscious awareness of their wrong choice. Remember, free will is not truly free if you don't have this choice.
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I think you misapply the 2300 days which says "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Dan. 8.14). The Sanctuary is not cleansed on earth today, for it is not even built yet.
The final phase of the judgment occurs when the Holy City has come back to this earth, the wicked are resurrected and are rallied by Satan to attack, and then fire comes down from heaven to destroy them. The earth will then be purified by fire and all things will be made new. This is all described in Revelation 20.
I hope you will keep an open mind and continue to study these important topics from God's Word!
Cyndee Holm
Bible Instructor
"Life is God's gift to you. The way you live your life is your gift to God"
www.amazingfacts.org
www.cosmicconflict.com
The wicked are resurrected and attack? No! The wicked are resurrected to the Great White Throne to be judged and cast into Hell at the end of the 1000 years. The only two persons that we know of mentioned in Scripture that are resurrected by Satan, given the key to the pit (Rev. 9.1) are the two sons of perdition, Caesar Nero as the 1st beast (Antichrist) and Judas as the 2nd beast (False Prophet). Out of the pit come more demons as well. And the Antichrist and False Prophet will be the first two persons to go into Hell-the Lake of Fire. Satan is let loose a little season at the end of the 1000 years to show he will never repent and man still yet had some hidden sin.
Salvation is not by works lest any many should boast, so a person who is born-again, receiving eternal life, can never perish. Once saved always saved! Praise the Lord! Amen.
Nothing happened in 1844. It was just a misreading the 2300 days. After the 2300 days Jesus returns. Only His presence cleanses the Jewish Temple, newly constructed. Since the investigative judgment is a false teaching to cling to it shows the world you worship a false Christ. Instead of humbly accepting the false prophecy, you morphed it into another lie. This is typically called self-rationalization and it is fleshly. When Jesus returns His sickle will remove you from the kingdom of heaven (that is, the outward appearance of the kingdom of heaven if you are in it), because it appears you won't repent.
I hope you will consider what has been said.
