Why Calvinism is so completely and utterly wrong!

People accuse calvinism as being wrong because they say it denies free-will. That is not what calvinists believe. They deem the choices made in the Bible free-will. There is so much sinning bearing false witness in the flesh of men. Ask any calvinist, and they will tell you they believe man has a free-will, so what are they really saying then?

What calvinists are wrong about is they believe they are premade for salvation like robots, which puffs up. They don't think they were premade for hell, but for heaven, because God saved them so they could believe. Their spirit can not sense it is wrong for God to premake people for just hell or heaven. They kill the image of God, because they say in order to come out of total depravity (a false teaching), they can't come to the cross from the image of God in which they are made (this first grace), but that God had to have unconditionally premade them irresistibly and limitedly, like the arian nation or natural selection. They truly despise Gen. 1.26,27, the garden choice an Abel's right offering. God foreknew the choice that Abel would make. He chose Abel because He foreknew his choice.

They really do despise that God can predestinate by foreknowing our choice. They have no faith to believe God is all-knowing to have this ability. So instead the calvinist believes the person needs to be preprogrammed long before to be saved - this is what they mean by "chosen," which is not in the same sense as "chosen" by God predestinating by foreknowledge (Rom. 8.29) of our choice.

"Chosen by premaking" does not glorify God. God does not want to walk with robots, but man made in His image who receives the cross. Obviously calvinism is a Pharisaical heresy, because though we are still fallen, we are still made in God's image, so yes, we can come to the cross, not by the will of the flesh but by that part of the will made in God's image which God allows us to receive the redemptive design. The image of God can not be destroyed by the mind of a calvinist. Never, and I repeat, never say that God saves you first then you can believe. This is a zombiism.

If a cult doesn't teach non-OSAS to (control you and passify you), they seem to want to teach calvinism (pride you up and passify you). In either case, the cult (RCC or Reformers, e.g. puritans, presbyterians, lutherans) want to passify you to control you into their system. It is not so pure or presbyr is it? Luther was notoriously confused, for he couldn't let go of the false teaching of total depravity while contradictorily still believing in resistible grace. Those who know anything about lutheranism know this matter always gets shoved under the rug. You can't have it both ways. Either we can resist God's grace because we are not totally deprave (though fallen), or we can't because we are zombies. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

"Total depravity" is considered in God's eyes to be an idol. Not only is the remedy in calvinism wrong to man's fallen nature, but so is their perspective on their version of what needs to be remedied.

They seek to remedy something that is not as they say it is, not being able to distinguish the difference between a fallen nature and a total depravity.

Remember clearly that total depravity is a condition, unlike the fall, which requires that the man need to be premade for salvation, because this totally deprave condition of the whole man will never be able to come to the cross and not even allow access of the image of God to come to the cross to receive saving grace unless the drawing is God's premaking.

This is the problem with fanatics and extremists is that their particular idol leads to additional mistaken assumptions as sin begets sin. I am not sure if they will ever be willing to repent. It is a very dangerous condition. I would not want to be in their shoes since God righteously God does not save this way and never will - a preservation of those non-saints.

Calvinism does deny original sin since they say the original sin leads to total depravity to the point of killing the image of God effectively unable to choose so that the drawing from God is God premaking the person like a robot. The fallen nature does not kill the image of God man is made in. Ironically calvinists are really pegagians because they den the original cause. The original sin causes man to fall, but not be unable to come to the cross, drawn and called by God. God wants to walk with those whom choose His life, not those who are premade out of total depravity. So in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, we reject any notion of legalisms why one might use if they were a bad lawyer.

Of all the verses in the Bible, I can find none more powerful than this, to expose a calvinist, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate" (Rom. 8.29).

They change "foreknow" to "know" because they can't have God foreknowing our free choice ("whosoevereth" John 3.16) made in His image.

What do men who like to just self-declare things have in common with the great accuser? He can't back up his accusations either. He spouts whatever mindlessly. That's the proof. After the experience of talking to over 100 calvinists and reading it seems every faulty argument, the calvinist has nothing. If the calvinist is not the tare, then who? Calvnists try desparately with 1001 articles to show they are regenerated first before they can believe in the pride of thinking they are premade for salvation like a robot when they say God has to elect them unconditional to cause them to have faith. Crazy stuff!

Christians, my brothers and sisters in Christ, believe that we are elected conditionally in humility. That is, God foreknew our choice before the foundations of the world (Rom. 8.29). Calvinists hate this verse so much they literally try to change the word foreknow to know because they despise God's omniscient foreknowledge and the image of God in our free-choice. From pelagian false view of original sin to the false teaching of total depravity to the man-made ideology of regeneration before faith roboticism, ends up effectively killing the grace of the image of God to choose which then is a believing in a corrupted lesser god (gnosticism).

Even a calvinist is not an automaton, though I am sure they feel like one as that is how they come across. They cannot sense their conscience is dead because it can't sense this premaking could never glorify God and God would not want to be with robots. Calvinists are oblivious they are going to hell as the tares. They really don't believe in Jesus Christ. Wow!

It is sad to lose even one soul to hell. Christians need to learn to kick the dust under the feet and leave a calvinist remain in their own you know what. I would be happy to help them if their spirit was open, but they don't want to be saved, not really. We should not cast pearls before unsave swine. We could be sinning if we try further to help them when we have done all we can do. It is a waste of time for God's children to help a dullard who will never be born-again.

This is what they are saying about themselves by their own words, so John 3.18 says they are condemned already. I really believe they are condemned already by God Almighty because they will never repent and are eternally hostile to God in their inner man, even deeper.

This has been a very powerful message for me to know in all my experiences with calvinists, they are the tares of Matthew 13 whom Jesus will put the sickle to, and may anyone who reads this message sence the authenticity of these words, so less people are corrupted by the pride of calvinism. Though I am at peace with this knowing some people just want to go to hell, I believe God is very angry with those who try to look like the saved wheat without every truly repenting to the cross. Perhaps there is nothing worse. You might even say their hell will be worse than the hell for atheists/agnostics.

Churchwork,

I must say that I am shocked and appalled that you would post such slander against those who are labeled by others as Calvinists. ALL FOUR of your posts presented here are attacking straw men and do not represent anything that I believe. I am a Reformed Christian, and a member of the Westminster Fellowship (you can google it) which is a Reformed Christian Society, I am a member of the Presbyterian Church in America. I have been a Reformed Christian for the last 5 years when God revealed to me in His Word the amazing doctrine of Grace.

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

They really do despise that God can predestinate by foreknowing our choice. They have no faith to believe God is all-knowing to have this ability. So instead the calvinist believes the person needs to be preprogrammed long before to be saved - this is what they mean by "chosen," which is not in the same sense as "chosen" by God predestinating by foreknowledge (Rom. 8.29) of our choice.

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I don't despise anything of the sort. I do have faith that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and almighty. Calvinism does not, and has NEVER declared or stated that you must be "pre-programmed" to be saved. On the contrary, it is by a SUPERNATURAL intervention of God through the Holy Spirit that draws us to Christ. It requires God to literally grab us and take our dead spiritual corpse and renew it and bring it back to life so that we can know the Good things of God.

God does not chose people by looking down the corridor of time to see who would chose him. (See 2 Timothy 1:9; Romans 9:15 - 24; Acts 13:48; John 3; John 15:16) I am bound to the Word of God, not to the words of man.

Please sir, if you disagree with someone and would like to refute them, please do not misrepresent your opponent as you will only hinder your argument.

Prayerfully your brother and servant in Christ,

Missionary

When a Calvinist claims they are irresistibly regenerated, that is "pre-programmed". God does not supernaturally intervene by irresistibly regenerating someone and denying others the opportunity for salvation. That would be evil. God needs to quicken our dead spirit which occurs when a person is born-again, but before He will do so, you must be willing to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. Alas, you are unwilling and that's why you are going to Hell. God looks down the corridor of time to predestinate according to our free-choice. Your god is unable to do this. You couldn't get any of those verses to agree with you.

I am glad you couldn't show an misrepresentation on my part.

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

When a Calvinist claims they are irresistibly regenerated, that is "pre-programmed". God does not supernaturally intervene by irresistibly regenerating someone and denying others the opportunity for salvation.

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Absolutely not. Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit in which the Spirit of God supernaturally intervenes in the Sinners life and revives their spiritually dead heart and draws them to Christ.

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

That would be evil.

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What you are calling evil is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

God needs to quicken our dead spirit which occurs when a person is born-again, but before He will do so, you must be willing to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated.

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Let us look at the Gospel of John... John 3:1-15 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

The Spirit which regenerates the sinner goes where it wants too. Jesus uses the word 'born' here in two instances. One for being physically born our birthday :), and the other our birth in the Spirit. When one is born, it is something that happens to one not what one does. Your mother birthed you, you had absolutely no free will choice in the matter. Your mamma pushed you out and you took your first breath of air and lived, same with the Spirit of God.

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

Alas, you are unwilling and that's why you are going to Hell. God looks down the corridor of time to predestinate according to our free-choice. Your god is unable to do this. You couldn't get any of those verses to agree with you.

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My God is saves every single person that he is fix'in to save. Not a single one of them are lost to the second death. Your god is unable to save those whom he wishes. IF God looked down the corridor of time to see who would believe the Gospel and turn to him. The number of believers would be absolutely zero. (see Romans 3 & 9)

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

I am glad you couldn't show an misrepresentation on my part.

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That depends on what you are trying to represent. I do not know what you are representing in your first four posts, but it is most definitely NOT Calvinism. Represent true Calvinism, and not a stawman and perhaps we could have a discussion on it.

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Originally Posted by Missionary

IF God looked down the corridor of time to see who would believe the Gospel and turn to him

Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit in which the Spirit of God supernaturally intervenes in the Sinners life and revives their spiritually dead heart and draws them to Christ.

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You've admitted that you didn't repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. That's why you are not born-again. Since you prefer a selfish salvation, God won't save you.

God draws everyone to Christ but many such as yourself "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). He's the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (Rom. 4.10). It wouldn't make much sense to say "Savior of all men who believe, specially those who believe."

Sir,

All I know is what you are preaching and the spirit in which you are preaching it is completely foreign to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My trust is in my God and Savior Jesus Christ, who saved me from witchcraft, idolatry, lust and the rest of my sins and my nature. When I came into the Body of Christ, I was a man who hated and was at war with God. I am Born Again. Why? Because I was Born Again.

You sir, have not answered any of my questions in anyway shape or form.

When I stand before my God and he asked me why I should be allowed into the Consumated Kingdom my only reply will be, "Because of Sola Christus!" That is, "Because of Christ Alone!"

Please address the issues I have raised, and the passages of Scripture.

Also have you read anything by Calvinists?

You're still involved in idolatry which is Total depravity and it's your point of pride. Since Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world and provides sufficient grace for us all to be able to respond, then none of us are Totally depraved. Amen.

1 Tim. 4.10 is one of the best verses to help you see the Bible is against Calvinism.

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

You're still involved in idolatry which is Total depravity and it's your point of pride. Since Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world and provides sufficient grace for us all to be able to respond, then none of us are Totally depraved. Amen.

1 Tim. 4.10 is one of the best verses to help you see the Bible is against Calvinism.

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I have been studing 1 Timothy 4:10 and breaking it down exegetically...

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Originally Posted by 1 Timothy 4:10 (E.S.V.)

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

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The Greek word translated as Savior, means savior in the sense of common deliverer or preserver or blesser. For example, in God's Common grace he lets it rain on both the elect and the reprobates crops and brings them to harvest. God will save a young women from being raped and bring the rapist to civil (and eventual spiritual) justice.

Thus when the passage states, "especially those who believe" it is then in turn going from a non-soteriological (non-salvation) use to a soteriological (salvation) use.

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Originally Posted by An Exegetical Study 1 Timothy 4:10*

II. NONSOTERIOLOGlCAL-SOTERlOLOGICAL INTERPRETATION (FREE GRACE SALVATION).

A. This is the correct interpretation. It is found by making a thorough study of the term "Saviour" (in both its noun and verb forms1) in the context of the chapter, the epistle, the New Testament and the Old Testament.2 The final phrase "specially of those that believe" clearly Indicates that the term is here given a twofold application. Of all men God is the Saviour, but of some men, namely, believers, He is the Saviour in a deeper, more glorious sense than He is of others.

This clearly implies that when He Is called the Saviour of all men, this cannot mean that He imparts to all everlasting life, as He does to believers. The term "Saviour," then, must have a meaning which we today generally do not immediately attach to it. And that is exactly the cause of the difficulty. Often In the Old Testament, the term meant "to deliver — (verbal form) or deliverer (nominal form)" — both with reference to men and God (cf. Judg. 3:9; II Kings 13:5; Neh. 9:27; Ps. 25:5; 106:21). Also, in the New Testament, reference is made to the Old Testament where God delivered Israel from the oppression of Pharaoh for He had been the Saviour of all, but specially those who believed. With the latter, and with them alone, He was "well pleased" (I Cor. 10:5). All leave Egypt; not all enter Canaan." POINT: In both the Old and New Testaments the term "Saviour" is often used to speak of God's providential preservation or deliverance which extends to all men without exception. (Cf. Ps. 36:6; 145:9; Matt. 5:45; Luke 6:35; Acts 17:25, 28.) Moreover, God also causes His gospel of salvation to be earnestly proclaimed to all men without distinction; that is, to men from every race and nation (Matt. 28:19). Truly the kindness (providence or common grace) of God extends to all. But even the circle of those to whom the message of salvation is proclaimed is wider than those who receive it by a true saving faith.

B. Conclusion. A paraphrase of what Paul is teaching in I Timothy 4:10 is this: "We have our hope set on the living God, and in this hope we shall not be disappointed, for not only is He a kind God, hence the Saviour (i.e., preserver or deliverer in a providential, non-soteriological sense) of all men, showering blessings upon them, but He is, in a very special sense, the Saviour (in a soteriological sense) of those who by faith embrace Him and His promise, for to them He imparts salvation, everlasting life in all its fulness.

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* Please see http://www.the-highway.com/1Tim4.10.html for the entire article.

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Originally Posted by Missionary

The Greek word translated as Savior, means savior in the sense of common deliverer or preserver or blesser. For example, in God's Common grace he lets it rain on both the elect and the reprobates crops and brings them to harvest. God will save a young women from being raped and bring the rapist to civil (and eventual spiritual) justice.

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Eventually a Calvinist attempts this argument because his back is up against the wall, but the reason it fails is because as Savior of all men it wouldn't make much sense to pour rain down on the reprobate but not rain down with the Holy Spirit to provide salvation to whosoever is willing. Preserving and blessing and delivering a person in this world but sending them to Hell anyway? That is sheer evil and sadistic.

The context is for salvation not so you can walk your dog in the park: "a good minister of Jesus Christ...we both labour and suffer reproach" (1 Tim. 4.6,10). When the gospel fully reaches all the earth, then Jesus will return. If you deliver the gospel to people who are denied sufficient grace to be able to respond, then you give them false hope. God's not going to do that nor ask anyone to do that. Again, that is sheer evil and sadistic.

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Thus when the passage states, "especially those who believe" it is then in turn going from a non-soteriological (non-salvation) use to a soteriological (salvation) use.

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I don't think those who are going to Hell irresistibly according to your faith would be too pleased to hear about how great your god is that he sustains and blesses them in this world and delivers them from all kinds of problems, but was impotent do more than that when he could have, so it is all in vain anyway since they have to go to Hell. That is sheer evil and sadistic.

Can you see the pride that engulfs you from worshiping a false God?

Just realize this. "Specially those who believe" is a subset available from the "Savior of all men" so everyone in the set "of all men" must have the sufficient enabling grace to obtain "those who believe" for "we have also obtained access by faith into this grace" (Rom. 5.2), "for by grace are ye saved through faith" (Eph. 2.8). The gift of faith is given to any who come to God with an honest heart. Think of that. God pleads with you to come to Him with an honest heart and says if you do so, you shall surely find Him. He doesn't say you shall surely find Him because you were irresistibly regenerated.

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This clearly implies that when He Is called the Saviour of all men, this cannot mean that He imparts to all everlasting life, as He does to believers. The term "Saviour," then, must have a meaning which we today generally do not immediately attach to it.

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It does not follow that since God provides the opportunity to be saved to all men or that He doesn't save all, that therefore Savior must exclude dying on the cross for the sins of the whole world. If not everyone is going to be saved, it's because many refuse God's provision to be saved.

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And that is exactly the cause of the difficulty. Often In the Old Testament, the term meant "to deliver — (verbal form) or deliverer (nominal form)" — both with reference to men and God (cf. Judg. 3:9; II Kings 13:5; Neh. 9:27; Ps. 25:5; 106:21).

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The same principle again applies, God is not going to deliver a person in this world from heartache but not then provide a way to be saved if that person is willing. To be delivered from the hands of an enemy is not "delivered from the hands of the enemy, but I will send you to Hell". That's absurd! That is sheer evil and sadistic.

In those Old Testament passages it is clear the delivering is out of the hands of their enemies, not about salvation. But in Tim. 4.6,10, it's clear the word is about saving souls: "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" NOT "Savior of all men TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD BUT NOT BE SAVED, specially those who believe" for those who believe are subset of "all men" not "all men to live in this world but without salvation". To sustain a person in the world but without any grace to have the opportunity to be saved so they must go to Hell is not much of a Savior. Since it is evil for us to be this way, it is evil for your god and for you to worship such evil.

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Also, in the New Testament, reference is made to the Old Testament where God delivered Israel from the oppression of Pharaoh for He had been the Saviour of all, but specially those who believed.

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The Saviour of all out of Egypt was not exclusive of salvation, otherwise nobody would believe. Saviour of all, therefore, is inclusive of providing the opportunity for any to be saved; that's why we read, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" (John 3.13) given to ALL of Israel not just some in Israel.

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With the latter, and with them alone, He was "well pleased" (I Cor. 10:5). All leave Egypt; not all enter Canaan." POINT: In both the Old and New Testaments the term "Saviour" is often used to speak of God's providential preservation or deliverance which extends to all men without exception. (Cf. Ps. 36:6; 145:9; Matt. 5:45; Luke 6:35; Acts 17:25, 28.) Moreover, God also causes His gospel of salvation to be earnestly proclaimed to all men without distinction; that is, to men from every race and nation (Matt. 28:19). Truly the kindness (providence or common grace) of God extends to all. But even the circle of those to whom the message of salvation is proclaimed is wider than those who receive it by a true saving faith.

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Why limit common grace and the gospel to only some men from every race and nation? If God wants none to perish, then He will do everything possible to saved every last one of us. For He is a just and righteous God! But if some people are denied sufficient mercy to have the opportunity to be saved yet is preached to everyone, then that makes your god sheer evil and sadistic, taunting and berating them when your god made them unable to respond. The reason why salvation preached to the whole world is wider than those who receive is not because they are denied the grace and mercy of God, but because of their own sovereign free will, despite all God's pleading and convicting, they still refuse such as yourself to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. And that is very sad.

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A paraphrase of what Paul is teaching in I Timothy 4:10 is this: "We have our hope set on the living God, and in this hope we shall not be disappointed, for not only is He a kind God, hence the Saviour (i.e., preserver or deliverer in a providential, non-soteriological sense) of all men, showering blessings upon them, but He is, in a very special sense, the Saviour (in a soteriological sense) of those who by faith embrace Him and His promise, for to them He imparts salvation, everlasting life in all its fullness.

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What kindness is there in saving people for Hell? While you reject God of the Bible who is able and does provide sufficient grace to the whole world, you remain unsaved assuming pridefully you were irresistibly selected without having had to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated.

This is why Christians are turned off by you because we can always sense your pride and pomp. We prefer the lowliness and meekness in Christ that flows from having truly repented and believed in Christ to truly be regenerated according to God's will. Amen.

Conclusion: doesn't make much sense to say "Savior of all men but without sufficient grace to believe, specially those who believe" for obviously, those who specially believe are said to come from those without sufficient grace to believe. Funny. It is self-contradictory if you read it that way. Obviously "those who believe" as a subset of "all men" who could "believe" as those that do. Plus the context is "a good minister of Jesus Christ...we both labour and suffer reproach" (1 Tim. 4.6,10) delivering the gospel. It's not talking about there being enough water on the planet or enough land to grow food or the ability to procreate to maintain life or escaping the Pharaoh. Any reading of Scripture that is self-contradictory is false. Hence, Calvinism is a false teaching and the belief system of false Christians. Always remember, if God is big enough to let the rain drop on both the saved and unsaved, He is able to provide sufficient grace to both as well. "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?" (John 3.12).

"We work hard and suffer much in order that people will believe the truth, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and particularly of those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10 NLT). The Savior of all people is in pertaining to the Gospel of Salvation that people would believe the truth. Putting the Old Testament aside of Israel being delivered from oppression, the Greek word is soter for soteriology in the New Testament.

The essence of the whole Bible is "He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2.2). This is a great and glorious God that He can do this. But your god cannot, because he is impotent to be able to do so. Even worse, if not impotent then unwilling. Satan is not willing and does not want God to save to the uttermost with resistible grace to give us the choice, to save the most and damn the least.

Let the whole Bible agree with itself:

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Tim. 2.4-6).

Only the Savior of the whole world would have all men be saved! Praise the Lord!

You are using the phrase, "Savior of all men", to discredit Calvinism. HOWEVER you refuse to stick to the way you are using it when you apply it to your beliefs. Unless you are a universalist, you are accepting that the word "Soter" or savior can mean more than just one thing. You inconsistency knows no bounds. Unless you are saying that you believe that Universalism is true, you can't use this verse to say Calvinism is wrong because you yourself say that in actuality not all people are saved. Especially in light of the fact you keep telling me I am going to hell.

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Originally Posted by Missionary

You are using the phrase, "Savior of all men", to discredit Calvinism. HOWEVER you refuse to stick to the way you are using it when you apply it to your beliefs. Unless you are a universalist, you are accepting that the word "Soter" or savior can mean more than just one thing. You inconsistency knows no bounds. Unless you are saying that you believe that Universalism is true, you can't use this verse to say Calvinism is wrong because you yourself say that in actuality not all people are saved. Especially in light of the fact you keep telling me I am going to hell.

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God wants you to see "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10) shows clearly Calvinism cannot be true. "Savior of all men" is in relation to "specially those who believe" so that "Savior of all men" can't be universalism otherwise the text doesn't make sense which would read according to your universalism idea, "Savior of all men who believe, specially those who believe." Don't you see that as redundantly nonsensical? You're accusing me of not contradicting myself? Thanks for the compliment.

I am not sticking to the way I use it when I apply it to my beliefs!? My belief is that it would be a contradiction as shown in the above paragraph if "Savior of all men" meant universalism. Nor can it mean what you think it means: "Savior of all men but without sufficient grace to believe, specially those who believe" which is also nonsensical since "specially those that believe" in your interpretation are said to come from those without sufficient grace to believe. By such a view you admit they don't have grace but are saved anyway!?

Hence, only one possibility remains, "God who is the Savior of all men, specially those that believe" for God provides sufficient grace to all men. That's what it means to be a Savior who died on the cross for the sins of the whole world. Not for some sins or some people, but all people (an unlimited atonement). Expect nothing less from a perfect God. Your god can't do this so God of the Bible trumps your god. A Savior is someone who provides salvation. That's what Jesus did for us on the cross. Why does that offend you? Because you admit you never repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated by this wonderfully amazing great God!

Plus, observe, you have a doublestandard because apparently you think Savior means everyone has to be saved, so you accuse someone of not being a universalist when you apparently are not a universalist. I thought you were suppose to treat others as you would like to be treated. Not only your contradictions expose your false teaching but so do your doublestandards.

For you God is not allowed to provide salvation which is why you worship the evil spirit and demons of Calvinism. Your god has to save irresistibly, but where does it say that in the Scriptures? The reason you are going to Hell very simply a child can understand is because you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated by erecting an idol called Totally depravity so you can selfishly claim you can't repent and believe, so you won't; instead pompously you assume you are saved irresistibly, exalting yourself above what you think are the damned from birth with no grace given to have the opportunity to be saved. Sick!

"Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel'" (Mark 1.15). He's pleading with you, with all peoples. "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3.19). Jesus is pleading with you and you keep telling Him you can't but you seem strong enough to be able to assume you were irresistibly selected. Don't you see how obnoxious that is? Do you really think God is pleading with with people who are already regenerated so they will repent and believe to be saved? Regeneration is salvation: new birth, eternal life, OSAS, initial salvation, born-again, etc.

You're a bad guy. Calvinists are false Christians worshiping a false Christ. Plain and simple. Not so simple for a Calvinist who is stuck in his head while his spirit remains dead to God. In the next minute you could literally receive Christ instead of clinging onto a false and selfish salvation. If you truly did then you will not say you were irresistibly graced, unconditionally elected and part of a limited atonement. Your conscience will begin to sense the pride that goes with the unsatisfying ideas of Calvinism you once clung on to.

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

Of all the verses in the Bible, I can find none more powerful than this, to expose a calvinist, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate" (Rom. 8.29).

They change "foreknow" to "know" because they can't have God foreknowing our free choice ("whosoevereth" John 3.16) made in His image.

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Maybe sir you should go back to the original greek text and translate. You see, foreknow and predestinate actually come from the same greek root. And do you know what sybol is at the beginning of the word? the symbol for love. Because God lovingly CHOSE those who would come to him. Let me ask you a series of questions. Did God choose adam to be the first human? Did God elect angels?(1Tim. 5:21) Did God choose Abraham to be the father of israel? Did God choose Israel? Then WHY can God not choose Christians? You cheat and create a new God based off your opinion, not the holy scriptures. I believe in a just sovereign God. You do not believe that God is sovereign.

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Originally Posted by lovingbrotherofChrist

Maybe sir you should go back to the original greek text and translate. You see, foreknow and predestinate actually come from the same greek root. And do you know what sybol is at the beginning of the word? the symbol for love. Because God lovingly CHOSE those who would come to him. Let me ask you a series of questions. Did God choose adam to be the first human? Did God elect angels?(1Tim. 5:21) Did God choose Abraham to be the father of israel? Did God choose Israel? Then WHY can God not choose Christians? You cheat and create a new God based off your opinion, not the holy scriptures. I believe in a just sovereign God. You do not believe that God is sovereign.

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Where did I say God foreknowing and predestinating are the same thing?

God chooses Christians but He doesn't have to be an evil tyrant irresistibly imposing regeneration. He enjoys fellowship, thus, giving us the free choice. Your god can't do that. Your god sucks. Such a god is not sovereign like God of the Bible.

Since God pleads with you and implores you to believe in Him, obviously, this is not a charade, but He has given you the free choice.

My prayer is one day you stop worshiping your false Christ and give your like to Christ Jesus. Amen.

I would like to understand the meaning of repentance. Is it a change of mind or a total turning away from all known sin?

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Originally Posted by Ricky

I would like to understand the meaning of repentance. Is it a change of mind or a total turning away from all known sin?

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Why does it have to be mutually exclusive?