Misreading Facts About Adam and Eve in Genesis

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12-27-2014, 02:20 AM
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Misreading Facts About Adam and Eve in Genesis

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Originally Posted by Squillem

Could you please provide a QUOTE from the Bible that refers to Humans existing before Adam and Eve. I've looked through Genesis and it says that God created humankind, on the 5th day after the creation of the universe.

The Bible doesn't say humans existed before Adam and Eve. Pre-Adamic men are not human since they are not made in God's image. That is, God has not for them breathed in the breath of life. But for Adam and Eve God directly created their spirit and when their spirit made contact with the body fully developed from pre-Adamic evolution, they became living souls with a spirit and a body.

It's actually the 6th day that man was created, not the 5th day. Gen. 1.1 God created perfectly over 13.8 billion years. Then verse 2 says God caused earth to be desolate and waste because of the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages - dinosaurs. What follows was the restoration of creation in which there were 6 twenty-four hour days that sum up the period of restoration. And on that 6th day 4000 BC God created Adam and Eve.

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"[1:23] And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
[1:24] And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind." And it was so.
[1:25] God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind, and the cattle of every kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good.
[1:26] Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."
The male and female it refers to are Adam and Eve, as is clarified later in Genesis.
"[2:7] then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being."
(Adam)
"[2:22] And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man."
(Eve)

The Bible, at no point, EVER mentions Adam and/or Eve encountering any other human beings. If you disagree, please provide quotes to prove me wrong.

The Bible is 66 books. If we were to include all the happenings of Adam and Eve there would not be enough space for the stuff that really matters so the Bible tracks one family line which allows for relations with other people at that time. Adam and Eve were not saved since they rebelled against God and never repented. So their story ends there other than the mention of their descendants. The spiritual significance should be in view not petty arguments about how many of Adam's descendants were relationships with other women. That line of thinking doesn't produce much spiritual value to strengthen in your innerman. Was it 1/3 or 2/3rds who can say?

We have fossil remains of other people that are not strictly descendants of Adam and Eve and so Adam and Eve become representative of the human race. The point being from 4000 BC onward all pre-Adamic men became Adamic, that is to say, they had God-consciousness and once you have God-consciousness you can never cease to exist. You will be resurrected either to be with the saints or with the unregenerates in Hell.

Think how evil it would be of God to make you aware of His existence and then be told you will just cease to exist. What love is that? God created us in His image and to do so implies a permanently existing spirit, soul and body for God's image never ceases to exist. We are unique among the stars the only planet in the universe that contains life.

If you were wondering what this view of creation is called: it is "gap restoration". You can read a detailed study here,

Download Mystery of Creation, CFP white cover, by Watchman Nee on the teaching of Gap Restoration.

Chapter 1 & 2 - (1) Genesis & Geology and (2) Mystery of Creation Chapter 3 - Restoration of the Earth in 6 [Summary] Days
12-27-2014, 03:46 PM
Squillem

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The Bible doesn't say humans existed before Adam and Eve. Pre-Adamic men are not human since they are not made in God's image.

If that's the case, why are your referring to them as "men"? Men is the word for male HUMANS, nothing else. Also, if these Pre-Adamic creatures weren't human, then they could not have procreated with Adam, Eve, or any of their descendants. Anyway, could you please provide a quote from the Bible that refers to these creatures? Because, from what I've seen, there's no mention of anything but animals existing alongside Adam and Eve on earth.

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That is, God has not for them breathed in the breath of life.

So, then, they're not alive? That doesn't make much sense. Could you elaborate?

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But for Adam and Eve God directly created their spirit and when their spirit made contact with the body fully developed from pre-Adamic evolution, they became living souls with a spirit and a body.

Once again, please provide a quote that refers to contact between Adam and Eve and a pre-Adamic creature.

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It's actually the 6th day that man was created, not the 5th day.

My apologies, that was a typo

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Gen. 1.1 God created perfectly over 13.8 billion years. Then verse 2 says God caused earth to be desolate and waste because of the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages - dinosaurs. What follows was the restoration of creation in which there were 6 twenty-four hour days that sum up the period of restoration. And on that 6th day 4000 BC God created Adam and Eve.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that Dinosaurs were God's first "trial," so to speak, for creatures to inhabit the earth. And you're also saying that they were more than animals, and thus able to comprehend a moral system. This is an interesting claim, considering how small and, based upon scientific projections, simple their brains were.
Also, some of the claims you've been making are incompatible. You said that Adam and Eve were created at 4000 B.C.E., but also that they were created 6 days after the beginning of the universe, which is at the beginning of the Bible. Which is it? It can't be both
Now, you made the claim that God made the earth desolate in verse 2, however, Gen. 1.2. doesn't say that, it says: [1.2] "The earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters." Is there any chance that you could provide a direct quote from the bible that refers to the following?:
1) Dinosaurs
2) The meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs
3) The Universe being as old as 13.8 billion years

The last one's not that major, but the first two are pretty critical
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The Bible is 66 books. If we were to include all the happenings of Adam and Eve there would not be enough space for the stuff that really matters so the Bible tracks one family line which allows for relations with other people at that time.

The bible includes a lot of incorrect information (how to use bird blood to cure leprosy, things like that) and a lot of history that isn't necessarily related to Christianity (A few books following genesis and before exodus). I hardly think that the authors were too keen on looking at what was the most important information.

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Adam and Eve were not saved since they rebelled against God and never repented. So their story ends there other than the mention of their descendants. The spiritual significance should be in view not petty arguments about how many of Adam's descendants were relationships with other women. That line of thinking doesn't produce much spiritual value to strengthen in your innerman. Was it 1/3 or 2/3rds who can say?

I don't care about this whole "innerman, outerman, and whatnot" philosophy. I'm looking at this from a perspective of historical truth. I don't know what you're really saying here, the wording confused me. However, hear this: You've not demonstrated that your claims are true in any way.

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We have fossil remains of other people that are not strictly descendants of Adam and Eve and so Adam and Eve become representative of the human race. The point being from 4000 BC onward all pre-Adamic men became Adamic, that is to say, they had God-consciousness and once you have God-consciousness you can never cease to exist. You will be resurrected either to be with the saints or with the unregenerates in Hell.

1) How do you know who the fossils descended from? All of their organic tissue has rotted away, and that includes their DNA.
2) As for Pre-Adamic creatures becoming Adamic human beings, How does that work? One can't go from being non-human to human in one lifespan, that's simply impossible. Also, does the Bible even refer to this happening?
3) By God-conciousness, do you mean knowing of the Christian god, or believing in him/it?
4) unregenerates is not a word

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Think how evil it would be of God to make you aware of His existence and then be told you will just cease to exist. What love is that? God created us in His image and to do so implies a permanently existing spirit, soul and body for God's image never ceases to exist. We are unique among the stars the only planet in the universe that contains life.

How evil would it be for God to create em knowing that I'd become an atheist, and then punishing me by sending me to hell for being an atheist? What kind of love is that?

Also, how do you know that there are no other planets with life on them? Can you prove that?
12-27-2014, 07:11 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squillem

If that's the case, why are your referring to them as "men"? Men is the word for male HUMANS, nothing else. Also, if these Pre-Adamic creatures weren't human, then they could not have procreated with Adam, Eve, or any of their descendants. Anyway, could you please provide a quote from the Bible that refers to these creatures? Because, from what I've seen, there's no mention of anything but animals existing alongside Adam and Eve on earth.

You are making this harder on yourself than you need to with your petty self. What name do you want to give to humanoid-type bodies prior to 4004 BC that we have skeletals for? Pre-Adamic bodies were given fully developed human bodies. So the pre-Adamic became Adamic on all continents when God breathed in the breath of life to those bodies. I like to use the analogy of Jesus' blood. When Jesus died by now after 2000 years His blood has touched every square inch of the planet. Likewise, when God breathed in the breath of life this life was given to all pre-Adamic bodies but in this case instantly. Gen. 2.7 encapsulates all these bodies from dust over a vast period of time in the restoration of creation after 65 million years ago. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Gen. 2.7). "Man became" is not saying human man was human before he became man. It is saying that body of man is that man that the pre-Adamic race became. Hence, we talk of two men. The pre-Adamic man that ceases to exist and the Adamic man who will never cease to exist. Since the pre-Adamic race has no spiritual purpose other than to form man's body Biblically it is excluded, and just the line of Adam and Eve are followed. The reason for this the Bible would be unnecessarily too big to carry around writing stories of pre-Adamic men so the Bible starts the focus on just two representative persons for the entire Adamic race. That's quite reasonable.

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So, then, they're not alive? That doesn't make much sense. Could you elaborate?

Who says they are not alive? To breathe in the breath of life Scripturally is to give them a spirit that will never cease to exist, whereas pre-Adamic men prior to 4004 BC did not have this feature to their being as they did not have a permanently existing spirit given to them. Your problem is you are forming arguments by misreading everything because you read the Bible with the evil spirit in your innerman and not by the Holy Spirit. You're not reading the Bible as it was intended to be read so you form a bunch of false arguments by misreading the Bible. Things are not as the seem to you.

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Once again, please provide a quote that refers to contact between Adam and Eve and a pre-Adamic creature.

Once again, I gave you the two reasons there is no discussion of interaction among individuals other than the physical line of Adam and Eve, because they are representative in Gen. 2.7, and the Bible would be unnecessarily large and the focus would come off the physical line through whom the Messiah would be born as represented by the tree of life in the Garden. If everything was included from antiquity the Bible would be as large as all the books in a library. So spiritually speaking that is not the approach the Bible takes. Remember, the Bible is a book of edification for one's spirit and not primarily focused on the physical. Remember I said man has 3 parts: spirit, soul and body. The Biblical focus is not on the latter two but the spirit, because it is the spirit that needs to be regenerated first. So we talk about being born-again in the spirit.

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that Dinosaurs were God's first "trial," so to speak, for creatures to inhabit the earth. And you're also saying that they were more than animals, and thus able to comprehend a moral system.
The last one's not that major, but the first two are pretty critical

Dinosaurs were creatures Satan manipulated when he fell from grace and twisted genetic code. They became irredeemable. So mercifully God caused them to cease to exist with an asteroid and an ice age. God would never have a global flood like that again just as in Noah's day God promised there would not be a massive local flood as there was then. Like the pre-Adamic race, dinosaurs simply cease to exist when they die even like animals today. There are no animals in the New City in eternity future. Today we extract oil from the ground from the decayed bodies of dinosaurs so I guess there is some purpose. Don't think of dinosaurs as God's first try, for everything God does is perfect and within infinite foresight. His ultimately goal was to create man in His image. You can't make system better than He did. 1/3 of angels fell. This was not a first try either, but angels will be subject to men. Angels were created with free will but no redemption given to them if they rebelled so the 1/3 that rebelled would go to Hell with you and Hitler, Mao and Stalin. Whereas man could receive redemption through the precious blood of Jesus. Dinosaurs though not permanently existing unlike angels have this feature of being irredeemable. I am explaining it the best that I can, but I am sure if you want to ask you will know more when you come before the Great White Throne and are judged for why you must go to Hell. Perhaps you can ask Jesus why He did it this way, and His answer will be perfect. But I am not far off in the explanation as it all fits quite well and agrees with Scripture. The only correct creation view is 'gap restoration' because all the other creation views break down. That's what I have been explaining to you.

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This is an interesting claim, considering how small and, based upon scientific projections, simple their brains were.

Actually all creates have some sort of moral system though not fully developed like for humans. Take for example dogs, you can sense a certain amount of guilt when they do something wrong. So it doesn't matter the size of their brain. What they don't have is a spirit of God-consciousness. They can't like you and I acknowledge the uncreated Creator and the proof since nature can't start up from nothing always have existed; so it needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated.

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Also, some of the claims you've been making are incompatible. You said that Adam and Eve were created at 4000 B.C.E., but also that they were created 6 days after the beginning of the universe, which is at the beginning of the Bible. Which is it? It can't be both

What's incompatible is your misreading of the Bible. At this point -- actually I already knew this before about you -- I can tell you are being disingenuous or incredibly lazy, because many times I have explained that the Hebrew used for the 5 days is restoration not creation. Gap Restoration is not hard to understand. There is a gap after creation over 13.8 billion years in which God caused earth to become desolate and waste because although God created perfectly Satan fell from grace as was his free will with his fallen angels and tainted the dinosaurs as well as other killing creatures. Demons became the disembodied spirits of former beings cast into the deep. Day 2 is not called a good day like the other days because when the firmament was split unavoidably up came some of those demons, one of which entered the serpent to tempt Adam and Eve. This effectively provides man free will to have the free choice to accept the lie and rebel. God commenced a restoration of creation summed up by the 5 days followed by breathing in the breath of life into the pre-Adamic body now fully formed by 3986 BC. The beginning of the Bible is not the creation of man. The beginning of the Bible is the creation of the universe (Gen. 1.1) followed by creatures that developed and became tainted by Satan's fall, followed by causing earth to become desolate and waste due to their sin, followed by the restoration since 65 million years ago to 4004 BC when Adam was born (adding all the ages of the Bible gives us 4004 BC). The rest is history.

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Now, you made the claim that God made the earth desolate in verse 2, however, Gen. 1.2. doesn't say that, it says: [1.2] "The earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters." Is there any chance that you could provide a direct quote from the bible that refers to the following?:
1) Dinosaurs
2) The meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs
3) The Universe being as old as 13.8 billion years

The word here is not was but "became". The same Hebrew word is used elsewhere as "became". So the reasonable question to ask is why what was created perfectly in Gen. 1.1 then become desolate and waste? Obviously, due to the sin of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages. There are other references in Scripture to these earlier ages even an intelligence, but you are not ready for that. But you can refer to that link that goes into them that the Bible gives. I don't want to cast too much which is holy unto dogs. First you have to at least understand the concept. In the Bible the Behemoth and Leviathan are dinosaurs. The scientific community is pretty much in agreement it was an asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs followed by an ice age. Again, all the Bible indicates it as is a massive flood not necessarily by water. I see it as darkening the skies, the light couldn't come in. That's why day 1 and day 4 are different in the restoration. The atmosphere was damaged. Oxygen levels were different, etc. You couldn't see the outline of the sun on day 1. When Jesus returns there are 3 things that happen before the Tribulation starts. Rev. 6.12 says a great earthquake (2010-11), black sackcloth sun (Nov. 3, 2013) and a red blood moon (2014-15). Various passages talk about falling stars which is referring to asteroids and comets such as in Rev. 8. Asteroid Apophis is about 3 football fields in length and on April 13, 2029 it will come within satellite distance of earth affecting satellite communications to some extent. An asteroid of this size hits earth every 80,000 years or so. If it hit earth, which it won't, it would kill tens of millions of people. The asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs is known. The location is under the ocean where it hit.

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The bible includes a lot of incorrect information (how to use bird blood to cure leprosy, things like that) and a lot of history that isn't necessarily related to Christianity (A few books following genesis and before exodus). I hardly think that the authors were too keen on looking at what was the most important information.

Actually, you're just misreading the Bible so what you think is an incorrect view is you just misreading the Bible. The purification ritual is for those already cured by leprosy. It also points to the once for all sacrifice of Jesus by His precious blood for the forgiveness of sins. The OT even says a person is not saved by these ceremonial laws. So to be consistent, your interpretation does not fit. If you were not disingenuous you would have realized that or you would have at least tried to seek out how Christians read this passage by the Holy Spirit. This is a perfect example of someone who is unwilling to search God out with all their heart and soul to surely find Him. Instead of searching God out you misread a passage of the Bible and use that misreading as an argument to reject God. How stupid is that? The entire Bible is related to Christianity, for the entire OT is about the law that no man can keep. Only Jesus could. So the Bible says salvation is not by works for the sinner, for no man can work a work good enough to bridge the gap between God and man. So Jesus enters His creation to pay the ransom. There is nothing more personal and loving than that. The 66 books is a complete and perfect compilation of God's word to mankind about His mercy, judgments and saving grace. Your problem is you shut your mind down and don't think these things through with any depth. You're very shallow and considered a dullard.

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I don't care about this whole "innerman, outerman, and whatnot" philosophy. I'm looking at this from a perspective of historical truth. I don't know what you're really saying here, the wording confused me. However, hear this: You've not demonstrated that your claims are true in any way.

It's not a philosophy. This is our very being. We have a spirit of God-consciousness. Who can deny we can sense God's being? God says in Heb. 4.12 to divide our spirit from our body from our soul. Why? Because the spirit and soul even body are so mingled you lose your spiritual sense and confuse the sense of your outerman with your innerman. In fact, by doing so your spirit becomes so dull it is hardly noticeable unable to follow God's will as spirit makes contact with spirit. Whereas the Bible discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart and divides one's spirit, soul and body to walk by the spirit with the Holy Spirit indwelling so that it is no longer we that live but Christ in us by His Spirit. This is historical truth. You have a conscience, intuition and communion of your spirit, except that you commune with the evil spirit and not God's Spirit. You also have a mind, will and emotion that can reason and feel and chose. These are less sensitive features as those of our innerman. And your body makes contact with the world. How is this not a historical reality? Words have meaning and these words are very characteristic of our being. This is all demonstrated. Do you not think you have intuition? Is your intuition and conscience so dead that you think it doesn't matter what you do your conscience will not respond? The word that keeps coming back to describe is you are a dullard. I don't think we need to talk more. You need to be more sincere and more honest with yourself. That hostility you have is the evil spirit in your spirit compelling you to be rebellious and nonsensical in your independency, not relying on God's guidance. If you don't care about your being therein likes your problem for your body the Bible says is a temple, but you treat it like garbage.

What I recommend you read is The Spiritual Man on the dividing of your spirit, soul and body,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm

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1) How do you know who the fossils descended from? All of their organic tissue has rotted away, and that includes their DNA.
2) As for Pre-Adamic creatures becoming Adamic human beings, How does that work? One can't go from being non-human to human in one lifespan, that's simply impossible. Also, does the Bible even refer to this happening?
3) By God-conciousness, do you mean knowing of the Christian god, or believing in him/it?
4) unregenerates is not a word

Carbon dating tells us approximately what age the various humanoids comes from. Surely you know that. Well we know Adam was born 4004 BC so you can say he became Adamic at conception. How does God breath in the breath of life creating man's spirit that is permanently existing? Surely you jest. Is there nothing God is allowed to keep for Himself otherwise you would reject Him? It's like you are claiming you need to be God if God exists. What arrogance! You keep asking for proof from the Bible of God breathing in the breath of life giving man a spirit, but how many more times do I have to quote Gen. 2.7 and 1.26,27? Surely you are not that daft.

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How evil would it be for God to create em knowing that I'd become an atheist, and then punishing me by sending me to hell for being an atheist? What kind of love is that?
Also, how do you know that there are no other planets with life on them? Can you prove that?

It is very righteous for God to send you to Hell because you choose to shut your mind down like a zombie to the proof for God, need for salvation and Jesus being God. God gives you the perfect proof of Him and yet you prefer to claim God does not exist? How more obstinate can you be? The irony is when you are before the Great White Throne you would still reject Jesus no matter what He tells you so you actually lock yourself in Hell from the inside because you want to be eternally separated from your Creator. Jesus might say something to you like why did you reject what I did for you on the cross? The proof I gave of my resurrection is the best proof I could give. Remember that lawyer in the Guinness Book of Records who won 245 cases in a row who evidential said the best case he has ever seen was for my life, death, burial, resurrection and deity? The way we know no life exists on other planets is because Hugh Ross has compiled 800 factors for life to exist on another planet and there are not enough planets in the universe. Pretty simple.

I think it best you read TSM, Gap Restoration, Hugh Ross' work, etc. At least do something to show you are searching out God and see that by observing nature (Rom. 1.20) we know God exists. It really gets boring every time you come up with another misreading of reality.