False Christians Are Not Sure About Their Faith

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06-05-2012, 04:47 PM
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False Christians Are Not Sure About Their Faith

Re: rotomi89 @ Youtube

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotomi89

You state that nature must have a cause (which i´ll agree for the sake of argument) and you demonstrate this by pointing out that everything in nature does not come from nothing nor is eternal. But then you state that this cause HAS to be a conscious being (which we call God) and you base this statement on nothing. Although you provide proof for the existence of a "cause" you don´t provide anything for claiming that this cause has to be a being. And this is your argument from ignorance, for you claim that this must be God, because no other option has been presented.

The uncreated Creator which is proven must have a mind because a mind is needed to create a mind. And the uncreated Creator can't have morals below our own so must have a conscience and can't be amoral. You're special pleading for a mindless uncreated Creator is meaningless so shall you live your life meaningless, but that violates the principle a mind is needed to create a mind and must have a conscience as we do.

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To claim that this cause is in fact God, you have to demonstrate it. And since you haven´t, the lable "argument from ignorance" applies to your argument. Until you demonstrate that this "cause" is actually God, the only answer we can have for the question "what is natures cause of existence?" is "we don´t know". Say that it has to be God because we just don´t see any other option is a statement founded on ignorance.

When we say God we mean uncreated Creator that the Creator both created and is uncreated. The only other additional aspects of our discussion that are relevant is that God would have a mind, a conscience, is accessible and is personal for we have these qualities, and God can't be below us. The greater is never less than the created by definition. God transgresses all.

You're regressing in your statements. Remember, the uncreated Creator is proven to exist because nature can't always have existed nor start up from nothing. Do you need to go over this proof again? Acknowledge this fact!

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After you make this extraordinary statement of "We have proof for who God is" you don´t show ANY PROOF AT ALL. You just start talking about how faith is supposedly founded on evidence and then you talk about those who wont accept the evidence even if they see it and then you start talking about me not been a real christian and that i will go to hell and bla bla bla bla... All that time you talked about the evindece WITHOUT SAYING WHAT THE EVIDENCE IS.

We are first establishing with you the uncreated Creator exists. If you can't overturn the proof given then acknowledge the existence of the uncreated Creator. Don't continue to shut your mind down. The next step is to examine the "proof for who God is." Don't worry about who God is yet until you first accept the proof for the uncreated Creator being. It's true many people have the evidence right in the front of them but they shut their minds down. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

Of course you are not a Christian because you admit you could be wrong about your faith. A Christian has no such doubt. We had a born-again experience, made new creations of God undeniable and irrefutable. You have no such real life experience in your "blind faith." You're in your head, not in your spirit.

We know by the proof of both the uncreated Creator and who the Creator is that we who are born-again are once-saved-always-saved. God chose us before the foundations of the world. Assuming you stay as you are then obviously God never chose you because He could foresee your free choice to eternally reject Him. How sad for you that that is the type of person you want to be.

My prayer is one day you give your life to Christ for real this time not in some fake or pretentious way. Amen.
06-06-2012, 10:24 AM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotomi89

This cause doens´t have to be a creator, it could be anything else we don´t know about yet. In order to determine that this cause IS IN FACT the creator you need to prove it. Do you understand what i´m saying? The claim that nature must´ve had a cause IS NOT ENOUGH evidence to determine what the cause actually is.

Alas, I am repeating myself, and you are not addressing what I said and the evidence I already gave in the previous post. I will say it again until you address it. Have you reached the point of acceptance that the cause is uncaused? If so then you are in a position to begin to compare various claims of the uncaused cause. Compare your mindless uncaused cause to the uncaused cause that has a mind. Who prevails? The lesser can never produce the greater so the uncaused cause can't have qualities below our own, so he must have a mind, be personal, accessible and possess an intuitive conscience. Since your uncaused cause does not meet this criteria you can be confident your appeal for a mindless uncaused cause is faulty.

Naturally, if you maintain your belligerent stance, contrary to the evidence, you're just expressing your dead conscience and desire to eternally separate yourself from the love of God, and God will give you your wish when He sends you to Hell. Your choice. Nobody to blame but yourself. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Your position is morally bankrupt, like in the movie Prometheus (2012)--so a mind is needed to create, but not only this, the mind must be perfect, holy and true. We are not caused by naturalistic only factors. This would not only be meaningless but evil. The only One who qualifies to create mankind or any replicating organism is God. The lesser cannot create the greater. The capacity does not exist for that occur other than by an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient ability.

Let's consider the spiritual implications. With your view you consider annihilation a possible consequence of your life so that it really doesn't matter if you are a mass murderer or a saint, the result is the same. This is unrighteous, unholy, and just plain evil. You live your life now in accordance with your faith.
06-06-2012, 03:02 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotomi89

I have reached the point of considering that the cause could be uncaused.

Actually, that is a wrong view to take because the evidence we have discussed you have not challenged which shows unequivocally that the cause is uncaused outside of time and space.

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And here is where you are mistaken. Starting to compare the various claims of this uncaused cause is not a path to the truth of this cause. Who prevails? Until you can actually prove that the cause is in fact intelligent, both claims prevail.

Comparing claims is integral, because having proven that the uncreated Creator has a mind, you can remove any claims of an uncreated Creator who doesn't have a mind.

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You say that the lesser can never produce the greater? If the greater doesn´t even exist i don´t see why this is relevant. This cause can´t have qualities below our own? What sort of criteria is this? This criteria doesn´t even make sence.

The greater can't not exist because th lesser can't produce the greater. It makes perfect sense the Creator can't have qualities below our own, such as, the Creator can't be evil, for to us evil is wrong.

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Besides, every mind that we have knowledge of has been actually formed by a mindless biological process.

That is quite false. Every mind that has ever existed was due to the supernatural instigation of God creating the first replicating life that evolved into our body from dust (Gen. 2.7) then when God breathed in the breath of life about 6000 years ago, directly creating our spirit, it made contact with the body, making man a living soul with a spirit and body. The soul has the function of the mind made in God's image.

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Every human is borned not do to the work or supervision of a mind but do to a mindless biological process that takes place in the mothers womb.

I don't think that's English.

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Evolution explains how brains came to developed and the theories of abiogenesis are coming closer to explain how life itself came to be (without the influence of a mind). So you claim that a mind must come from a mind? There are no examples for this anywhere and actually there is a whole planet full of life that gives examples for the contrary.

Evolution can't explain self-consciousness because nobody can reproduce abiogenesis let alone abiogenesis able to produce self-consciousness. What's interesting to me is if man could produce abiogenesis, the problem would still occur because it required man's mind rather than random atoms eventually doing so. There simply is not enough interatomic interactions in the history of the universe.

Here's another interesting thought. Hugh Ross has calculated there are at least 800 variables for life to exist on another planet, but when you divide through the number of planets, it is impossible for life to exist on another planet. But since that it is the case it wouldn't agree with your theory we were caused by a mindless uncaused cause. It would seem a mindful God who only allows one planet in the entire universe to have life on it is pretty profound don't you think? Have you ever thought to bring humility into your life and let go of the pride, the arrogance, the overassuming nature that characterizes your every move?

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And let me understand this correctly... you are mentioning a science fiction movie in order to make a case for your statements? I can´t even find the words to discribe how idiotic this mentioning is.

Try not to be ignorant, it betrays your actual condition. The movie Prometheus shows how evil it would be if we were created by an evil Creator so this can't be true. No loving God would allow it. That's why God doesn't allow man the ability to create replicating life from the elements alone.

My prayer for you always is to give your life to Christ, instead of remaining in your hostility, independency and disobedience from Christ. He created you to have a personal relationship with you. It will make Him very sad to have to send you to Hell for all eternity, for once you are there you lock the door from the inside because you won't change your mind after that.

p.s. have you ever considered using a spell checker to show you are conscientious?