Postrib Rapture Onlyism has Unsettling Repercussions
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Originally Posted by zeke37
envolve, are u open to other possibilities, or are u stuck on this rapture according to readiness theory?
because, u r incorrect...
someone sold u a bridge...
lol...actually, the actual scripture u quote, says/teaches opposite...
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
we want to be left, working for the Lord, not taken.
dont be taken in the flood that is coming.
The problem with your theory is that it is to those who have Lord that are being spoken to. As a consequence of being watchful they are either taken or left. If to be taken here refers to being caught up in the flood and not be left alive to end up at the last trumpet to be raptured that would not make any sense because God can't promise us there will be no martyrdom for believers in the Tribulation. In fact, by being an overcomer who is watchful it is more likely you will be put to death, martyred by the world, for the world treats us who are in Him as He and His disciples was treated. So God can't promise you if you are left to pass through the Tribulation that you won't be martyred. Could such a promise be given to those who were martyred in the 2nd century in the Smyrna church period? Of course not. They, therefore, would not necessarily be left alive, because many shall be martyred. Hence, though certainly the world will be taken in the flood, Christians are to be watchful because if we are we will be taken or raised up before the Tribulation and not be left to pass through the time of testing. First rapture is according to readiness.
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and yet, the bible says otherwise...
Rev14:13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Though it is true the martyred are blessed and will be rewarded, nonetheless, God doesn't want people to die. He would prefer they be raptured alive, because murder is just plain wrong.
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a false presumption based on another false presumption.
Luk21 promises protection for the elect, and Rev9 limits Satan's powers so he cannot kill.
infact, when Satan breaks this limitation, the two witnesses are killed...
and that is the cue that brings GOD down to end this age!
Nowhere in Scripture do we find saints are guaranteed to escape martyrdom if they are left to pass through the Tribulation. This is why you can't find a specific verse to support your theory. Were not all the original Apostle, except John, martyred in their tribulations? Jesus was raptured ahead, taken, because He is an overcomer, the firstfruits overcomer. He is God. Let us be Christ-like so that we may be taken up at the first rapture. Saints are a testimony to the world and experience martyrdom. You sound like you are afraid to be martyred because you teach you won't be martyred in the Tribulation. How contrary that is to the Scriptures: "until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed" (Rev. 5.11) in the Tribulation. Because you are so fearful you concoct an imaginary scheme where it is impossible for you to be martyred during the Tribulation. There is another word for that - delusional! Even Enoch and Elijah in the Tribulation who are overcomers were killed. God could not prevent their death because that is not how God works. He allows saints to be martyred as a testimony to the world, the world love not His own and thereby will be judged harshly. In the 5th Seal the martyrs under the altar are told to wait a little longer for the rest of their brethren to come in who will be martyred during the Tribulation. How can you not believe this if you are a Christian?
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if u are worthy to escape all the bad stuff going on at that time, then the Lord has BIG plans for u...and it ain't relaxing in heaven...
Those who are watchful escape the Tribulation. God has big plans for them. For they get to return with Christ to reign 1000 years. No relaxing in heaven.
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1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
it'd make u part of the elect....fighting the beast...
it'd make u part of, one of the two churches that are defined as candlesticks in Rev1-2-3, against the beast in Rev11.
Those who are raptured ahead at the first trumpet may very well fight with Michael the archangel in 3rd heaven against Satan to throw him out of 2nd heaven down to earth. And those very same overcomers get return with Christ to defeat the Antichrist at the end of the Tribulation. From the 1260th to the 1290th day Jesus' judges the nations.
The "seven golden candlesticks" (Rev. 2.1) are for all 7 churches. Only Philadelphia though was an overcomer church and told to keep what it has attained. Though the church in Sardis is truly a restoration, the recovery is not perfect. For unlike the church in Philadelphia which receives praises, Sardis receives reproaches. We thus know for sure that Philadelphia is the Lord’s choice because it is an extension of the orthodox line of the Apostles. We should expect about 1/7th of Christians alive at the time of the first rapture will be raptured alive.
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20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
7 churches in Rev2-3...
2 share the same doctrine
and are the only 2 NOT chastized by Jesus.
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Smyrna is reproached though not chastised, for they needed still to be faithful until death; whereas the Philadelphia church was already faithful unto death so no such warning was needed for Philadelphia. All Philadelphia had to do was keep what it had got.
Enoch and Elijah would be included as overcomers and did not need to be told to be faithful unto death, because they already had this ability. Oil here represents the Holy Spirit and they are both candlesticks because they are a light to the world. They are individuals who wear "sackcloth" not a group of souls. We are appointed once to die. Enoch and Elijah are the only two persons in the in the Old Testament who had not died.
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u'd need to be pre-ordained as elect.
all other Christians shall be seduced by the false Christ.
it's God's plan!
God preordains by foreknowing our free choice. A person who is a Christian has eternal life which can never be lost for the Bible is clear those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Those who worship false Christs have no faith to believe this, giving their lives to an impotent god who can't assure being kept. God's plan is to not let a single one of His children be lost. Your god can't do this so he accuses Christians.
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lol...limiting God is dangerous...
13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
You prove the point since you provided the verse, "some of you shall they cause to be put to death." God does not promise escape from martyrdom, but He does promise if you are watchful you will escape the hour of trial-that is, the Tribulation time or hour itself.
You're limiting God but not allowing God to allow His saints to be martyred.
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Satan's name, death Heb1
Satan is the god of this world, indicating he can kill a Christian at any time. Not so during the millennial kingdom, because Satan will be cast into the pit 1000 years before being released for a short while at the end. Perhaps part of your problem is you really don't realize how sinful this world is.
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17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19In your patience possess ye your souls.
This means the Christian is saved and can't lose eternal life and martyrdom will not take place before they are greatly used by the Lord. Jesus told the Apostles they would be martyred. Do you call Jesus a liar?
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patience means going all the way, not being removed early.
what good could u accomplish then? none
To keep the word of His patience is going all the way, but it is not a going all the way through the Tribulation or some specific period of time, because as we have seen God can't assure the saint won't be martyred during the Tribulation. You make Paul and Peter and James failures. Rather, to be patient in the word is to be accounted worthy and ready and patient, thus like a balloon ready to be released to the throne in 3rd heaven before the Tribulation starts. This is God's will whosoever hath an ear to hear. Don't take away the hope of the Church for with the hope of the return of Jesus is the hope of being first raptured. This is the prize Paul sought after an to be included in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is a rewarded "out-resurrection" from all the raptures and resurrections of just overcomer believers.
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we all will go through it...better be prepared instead of wishing to be zapped outta here.
Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10 say you will only go through the Tribulation if you are not watchful, not prayerful and don't keep the word of His patience. These are conditional statements. My prayer for you is when you are in the Tribulation which no doubt you will be (2015 to 2022), don't accuse the couple million souls who vanished (Sept. 14, 2015) and don't think it is not the Tribulation, for clearly you will be in the Tribulation since a couple million will have vanished without you.
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no rapture till the end...
There is no rapture at the end. At the end Jesus steps down on the mount of olives. So there is a first rapture before the Tribulation according to readiness, the rapture of the martyrs during the Tribulation as they go to rest individually to be resurrected 3.5 days later, and there is at the start of the 7th trumpet the general rapture and resurrection according to completion. There is 24 months that separate the 7th trumpet rapture and resurrection (1 Thess. 4.14-18) and when Jesus steps down (Zech. 14.4, Rev. 19.11-16) with His overcomers (Jude 14,15; Rev. 20.4-6).
No joke. Let me repeat it... God can't promise you won't be martyred if you enter the Tribulation, so this is referring to the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) before the trumpets of the Tribulation commence (8.7ff).
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so, according to u, non overcomers, are saved? ok???
Of course. Once-saved-always-saved. The 5 wise unwise virgins still had oil of the Holy Spirit in their lamps. They are still of the same class of virgins as the 5 wise virgins, except they don't get to enter the marriage feast to reign for 1000 years, and of course, if they were alive at the time of the first rapture would not be raptured, but would pass through the time of testing.
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well...you are only partially right, and dangerously wrong.
Based on everything you said and everything I said in response to what you said, you show that you are partially right and partially wrong. Since there is a rapture beforehand and near the end of the Tribulation, first rapture must be according to readiness. May the pretribber onlyists and posttribber onlyists stop arguing with each and come together on this basis. Praise the Lord! Partial rapture brings Christians together.
What is dangerous of your belief is you are a catalyst in causing many Christians to falter, to not only exclude themselves from the first rapture but the reward of returning with Christ to reign during the 1000 years. So imagine the judgment that is to come upon you! And even worse, possibly the reason you believe what you do and will accuse the brethren day and night who vanish at the first rapture and thus will deny the Tribulation is going on when it is happening is because you worship another Christ. My prayers go out to you for you know not what you do.
Very dangerous indeed!
