Human disapproval by others is the least of our worries! In the life to come, the last will be first, and the first will be last. Don't forfeit rewards of the kingdom for temporary benefits. Be willing to make sacrifices now for greater rewards later. If we sacrifice now our return today is actually 100 fold NOW greater than what we give up, but in the millennial rewards it will make that hundred fold in today's foretaste of the kingdom pale in comparison to the million fold when Christ returns. Imagine! How absolutely incredible Christ will return from the clouds that He went up to. Accept human disapproval from the unregenerates, while knowing you have God's approval. Other people can not understand what you are saying because their spirit has not been regenerated. O how wonderful it is to have a quickened spirit able to see underneath that which others have no means or capability because their spirit is dead to God. It is the most amazing revelation in my life, and the greatest thing that ever happened to me was when I was born again in January, 2001. I could see that which I was I could never see before. I could sense intuitively that which my spirit was incapable of sensing before. How spectacular God is to save us to take us, when He returns, into the millennial reign and peace or outer darkness, and how righteous of God to cast unbelievers into the lake of fire at GWT after the millennial rewards end. Only a holy and righteous God does not annihilate souls. All in the Adamic race are eternal souls, made in God's image, even before the foundations of the world, predistinated by foreknowledge (that is, God foreknowing what choice we would make individually) of the choice we each would make for or against Christ of our own volition, saved or not saved, by the grace of God upon that choice afforded by first faith, and the grace (in John 3.16,18) of new birth for His children: sons and daughters. What comfort there is in knowing after entering into new birth that in fact God chose me before the foundations of the world. That is so amazing! God is obligated to non-annihilation for everyone, though quite sad for those going to perdition, yet we will have no tears for them in eternity future when enternity future starts. It is the most splendind miracle for the millions and billions and trillions of years ahead of us. I am so grateful to be part of God's design. I promise not to get tired after the first 1 trillionth year of my existence in eternity future. Amen!
I am beside myself.
Not one tittle of the law shall pass away until eternity future starts. 9 laws of the Ten Commandments are moral in nature so they remain. One is ceremonial as a sign of covenant to the Jews, but since Jesus came to fill up the law, to enter into a new covenant, therefore, the ceremonial law of the old covenant has passed, but the 9 moral commandments remain, so you should have found the commandments on the mountain. That is the meaning of the sermon on the mount (Matt. 5-7) that fills up these 9 laws in Christ's teaching. And Jesus gets rid of the Sabbath in Matt. 12. Hence the law is inadequate if it needs to be filled up (5.17). Even the sabbath still remains except that since we are not under the law we don't keep it, but instead live by the Spirit of the law. Israelites ought to come to the cross which now supersedes the keeping of the law, for if you try to keep the law you shall die by the law.Quote:
Greetings. The Lord bless you. I was thinking about starting a Christian forum and was checking out what was already here in the directory and so that's how I came came across this one. I was reading some of the posts and I was being blessed and am still being blessed. Somebody here was praying for some Spirit filled backup. I hope I don't disappoint anyone. I have been around: was born again about thirty years ago and can't wait for the Lord to return and set this sad sick old world back on a godly foundation. I have been on the mountain; but I didn't get any ten commandments. Just one; Love God and your neighbour as yourself. I have a web site and the Lord has blessed yours truly in many ways; though it seems the closer I walk with Jesus the fewer there are that want anything to do with me. I have just finished an article last week and would like some feedback. So without further ado I present this link and hope that you will be blessed by such. Glory to Jesus! Your brother and fellowservant in Christ Jesus, Bryon
Think of it like a new version of Windows. Windows still keeps the old DOS program working. It is still there, but we don't use it since we are under the new law of the Spirit of God indwelling, which is like Windows.
In reading the first paragraph of your piece, I do not see mysticism as you defined it, since we should have a personal relationship with Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is contrary to your strange words, "Mysticism is based on the idea that man can have a direct personal relationship with God". Instead, mysticism means living in your emotion not your spirit, that is your inner man. In other words, confusing your emotion of your soul of your outerman for the the intuitive inner spirit having the tesimony of the Holy Spirit therein whom agrees with God's Word. God contacts us in your spirit, not our soul.
Conclusion: (1) You Have No Peace When You Reject the "Open Bible" (line by line) that Gives No Control to Any One; (2) historicalism is not of God; (3) calvinism is not of God; (4) the blessing of Rev. 1.3 is Pre(readiness to be received)Trib + Post(completion of those alive and left and resting)Trib Premillennialism.Quote:
Greetings. The Lord bless you. Jesus told told us that all the law is summed up as; love God and your neighbour as yourself. If we in truth do that by our abiding in Jesus we will also be obeying the 9 morals laws as given to Moses. I didn't mean that the law had passed away as regards morality.
About my defining mysticism as believing one can have a direct relationship with God; I was pointing out that many believe that they can have such fellowship, without Jesus. That business would have to be self deception and whatever they think they are in contact with cannot be God. Spirituality without Jesus Christ cannot not be true and so must be based on contact with a deceiving spirit and especially so when they think they are having some experience of God. Mystics are usually enthralled by their own emotions and so I would agree with your definition as well.
I just discovered that you too are Canadian. I used to live out in Alberta; I live in Ontario now. I have been checking out your web site and it looks good. When I have opportunity I will be going over such in detail. We probably won't agree on some matters I'm sure; but I believe that we can agree that God's word is the only sure basis for knowing reality and that all understanding must proceed from that source in order to be considered sound and reliable. The Lord bless you.
I agree with your meaning with regard to having a relationship with Christ and not some imaginative relationship with God. Words are touchy. So easily we can misread another as I misread your intention in your quote I gave, yet I did sense something wrong (read below to find out-I sense your calvinism even though I do not know if you are a calvinist by anything particular that you openly said). I do agree with you about Wescott and Hort, Word of Faith redemption in hell and other false tongues speakers, but I would like to ask you something specific. Do you believe in calvinism or osas arminianism? Those who call themselves reformers at least 9 times out of 10 I have found call themselves calvinists.
In your chart,
http://users.churchserve.com/on/ldpr...ion_chart1.gif
The finding as I pray by the Holy Spirit (and compare what I wrote below), the conclusion is that no particular line has complete ownership in the Bible, and that is why we rely on the "open Bible". In light of what the next paragraph reveals we know there is something heinous at work in the reformed, Lutheran, Presbyterian line. Presbyterian soul annihilation and Lutherian calvinism pride of believing he was premade for salvation is heady zombiism, and not touching the spirit. Mysticism is a problem on the Wescott and Hort side. The position the Holy Spirit has revealed to me in agreement with God's Word is both parties are WRONG. Neither are we premade for salvation, nor do we indulge mysticism. Therefore, what gives us the correct rendering of each verse? it is none other than a dividing of spirit, soul and body to know what is of spirit and what is of soul,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/spiritsoulbody.htm It did not take me 3 years to realize this. It was realized in the first year of being saved in Jan. 2001.
1Corinthians 11:24 "broken" should not be included for it is obvious. KJV has a bad habit of adding things that are to the effect of causing one not to think. That is why Jesus gave parables. So to is it the desire of God in this verse not to use the word broken to cause one to think on its meaning of being broken. RSV and ASV agree this word was added by the RCC. The position I take which is the most reasonable position to take, unless shown otherwise, is that the ASV on par is a better version than the KJV, but the KJV is a better version than the RSV, and there is really no competition past that. Though other versions can find errors in the KJV, like the NLT has done, the KJV remains yet better than all the others except the ASV. Even so, what God has for us is the "open Bible" and the right to compare where some mistakes have persisted through various segments of time as for example the KJV in Rev. 5.10 should read "them" and "they" not "us and "we". This is an error in pride by the KJV writers since it is the angels praising the redeemed, not the redeemed praising themselves. And KJV brutally confused hades and hell as if they were the same thing when they are not, and never were. There is nothing to be gained by reading the NIV with its treatment of Mary. "How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!" (ASV Isaiah 14.12) is a better rendering than KJV. This is another example of KJV wanting to spell it out for you, whereas God's Word causes you to ask, who is the day star? By checking other verses you find out that the day star is fallen Lucifer. "In whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins" (ASV, RSV). Again, KJV has an uncanny need to add more. Many verses already speak of the redemption of the blood. It need not be added inordinately otherwise it becomes a a drum beat. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life" (ASV, RSV John 6.47) is a better rendering than KJV since KJV is always adding what is already obvious. These are the original, which are better than the KJV on these accounts for the simple reason that God does wants you to think and especially since elsewhere God's says it enough times already. However I must say that I do like the word "everlasting" as somewhat poetic. However, eternal life is as good for that is in fact what we have, is eternal life which is everlasting. We must accept today that the KJV words are quite outmoded for our language. This therefore, becomes gnostic in itself for only those with a 1611 dictionary can know God's Word; those who are scholars and historians. This is wrong. Time and time again, we find which is the right rendering for verse with a little prayerful study. "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds between thine arms? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends" (Zech. 13.6 ASV) is better than KJV because when this person was in the house obviously his friends attacked him for his zeal of prophecying against God's will, so his hands were put up to protect himself as his friends attacked him for that which he is not suppose to be doing in the millennial kingdom to come. So the incident occurs between his hands or arms implying his chest. The NLT does a particularly good job in this regard and with its footnotes. Context wins out here.
What is the conclusion of this. The same as I had before that KJV onlyism is the work of the evil spirit and the flesh wanting an only-something, treating it as an idol, and not discerning the errors mentioned in the KJV, actually defending them.
The Bible is especially powerful when it seemingly does not say the same thing the same way and we have to find how it does in fact agree causing us to agree like in comparing the 4 Gospel accounts.
There is a very important principle we should accept of the Scriptures, that no matter what century we are in the Scriptures are translatable to that languge of that day. Today, the KJV is outdated in its language and we are allowed to have a non-gnostic current language of the Bible for babes in Christ to understand. This causes the NLT to be an acceptable version. It has a terrific number of footnotes to discern.
In the bottom of your piece, after reading through your various pages these are my findings:
1) hostility towards pre-trib, not seeing its part truth, while rejecting it for its untruth. In other words first rapture is about readiness, not a forgone conclusion for Christians. If a Christians is not an overcome and ready to be received according to Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36 in keeping the Word of His patience, he will go through the Tribulation. 7th trumpet resurrection though, is the rapture and resurrection of completion of all saved since Adam. First resurrection includes first rapture but not all those in the 7th trumpet resurrection are included in the first resurrection, since the first resurrection is a "best" "out-of" resurrection from the raptures and resurrections of the Tribulation.
2) I am not sure if you are a posttribber onlyists but that has its own problems also in that it is a seeking for the Antichrist first taking away the hope of the church to escape the Hour of trial if it is ready - at most 1/7th of the Church alive at first rapture are raptured alive.
3) If you are a historicalists, why do you claim this time of hitler is the millennial peace, and why do you take away rewards unto accountability of the millennial peace? This would be your sin as would be your calvinism prideful preselectionism. Do you realize Luther was wrong that you were not premade for salvation? Historicalists are actually blunting the solemn warning at the end of this age for last generation in this dispensation so they can not know the wrath of God, so they think.
4) When we die, we sleep awaiting resurrection at the 7th trumpet, 1 Thess. 4.15-17, 1 Cor. 15.50-52. We can not enter 3rd heaven without newly clothed spiritual bodies and we are all raptured together during this 7 year Tribulation to come. You may call this soul sleep, or rest, or Abraham's bosom, or Hades, or Sheol; it is not Hell of course, since it has no fire about it.
5) Penance and indulgences for reduced time in purgatory obviously is ridiculous. However we can not throw the idea of rewards out completely and the matter of accountability. Therefore, we find in Scripture three instances mentioned regarding outer darkness, which is loss of rewards outside the light of rewards of reigning with Christ during the millennial kingdom. Outer darkness never has fire about it. Simply stated: of all those that are saved, there are overcomers and non-overcomers. Overcomers receive rewards. Non-overcomers do not. In eternity future after the millennial kingdom, rewards are done away with as well as the nations; left with just the new earth and its peoples with bodies of flesh and blood that multiply and are fruitful (which go through the new city to receive renewal, but there is no disease since there is no longer sin), and the resurrected-saved in the new city with their spiritual bodies.
Lutheranism teachings pedobaptists, but that is not the worse of their teachings, the worse being what they share with presbyterians for example. The reason one ought to reject calvinism is for the pride of believing they were premade for salvation. No loving God saves according to zombiism. Therefore God saves according to John 3.16,18: osas arminianism. Are you oppossed to calvinism for the right reason then? http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/calvinists2.htmQuote:
Dear Troy, Greetings. The Lord bless you.
OK! First of all I am opposed to Calvinism because it is an elitist false gospel for pedobaptists. I doubt that any pedobaptist is saved because if they were they would know they weren't Christians because of water baptism. I was reading your pointer on Rev. 5:10 and I think you need to go over that again because the 24 elders are praising Jesus and thanking Him for making the saints into kings and priests unto God. I don't see where there are angels praising the Lord in that passage. I understand that you are into 'Partial rapturism' where part of the Church gets raptured and part gets left behind to suffer through the tribulation period. However Rev. 20:4-5 tells us that the tribulation saints take part in the 'first resurrection' meaning that there cannot not be a 'rapture' before that. Read that over carefully and pray about that. I am not sure what you mean by 'Open Bible', but I do know that the Greek and Hebrew text that the KJV is translated from is the genuine 'Word of God' while all the rest of the new English versions are either based in whole or part on Westcott and Hort's falsified Greek text and/or they falsely call Gnostic corruptions of God's word the 'oldest and best mss.' (At least in the margins.) There are many such lies in the modern bibles and because of that they can't be called 'Holy' bibles because the Lord will not bless 'lies'.
Though pedobaptists are mistaken, I would say a greater percentage of them are saved than "stacking the deck" teaching of calvinism.
In Rev. 5.10 the 24 archangels are praising God for saving the redeemed, that is why the KJV is wrong for it does not say "them" and "they" as it ought to.
The 24 elders are 24 archangels, and angels take up prayers, not man himself. Here in lies your confusion. For a full proof of this fact please read:
4.4 “THE TWENTY-FOUR ELDERS”
The common interpretation of the 24 elders as given by most commentators is that they point to the entire glorious church. But do these commentators have sufficient proof for offering this interpretation? Recently some of them have quoted 4.4, saying that these elders have thrones and therefore they reign as kings; they also point out that in 5.8 these elders are shown as having harps and golden bowls full of incense, and hence they are priests. And does not 1 Peter 2.9 state that believers are “a royal priesthood”? Since these 24 elders are both kings and priests, surely, they conclude, these elders represent the glorious church.
According to this interpretation, therefore, the entire church must be raptured together and thus it does not go through the tribulation. But how, then, will 3.10 be explained? Furthermore, there are ten other reasons why the 24 elders do not represent one glorious church.
1) The name of elder is not the name of the church. Nowhere in the Scriptures does “elder” ever represent the church. There are elders in the church and among the Jews, but not all believers are elders. If the elders here point to the church, it will be almost like saying that the entire church is made up of elders. According to historical fact, God first chooses the angels (Is. 14.12; Ez. 28.11-19), then the Jews (Gen. 12.1-3), and thirdly he gave grace to the church (for it is formed in the time of Acts 2). How can the church bear the title of elders?
Not only the church cannot be reckoned as elders, even the Jews are not to be considered as elders (the election mentioned in Eph. 1.4 refers to the eternal purpose of God, and hence is quite different from the elect angels as mentioned in 1 Tim 5.21).
2) The number of the elders is not the number of the church. The church’s number in the Scriptures is seven or multiples of seven, but 24 is not such a multiple.
3) The church cannot have the throne and the crown before the Lord Jesus has His. The one who sits on the throne as seen in 4.2 is God the Father (the Lamb is standing, according to 5.6). The 24 elders also sit on thrones, and they all wear crowns of gold as described in 4.4. If they represent the church, how can it be that the church sits while the Lamb stands? According to this interpretation, in 5.6 the church is already crowned. Yet please note that the Lord Jesus will not be King until the time of chapter 20 is reached! How can the church receive glory in advance of the Lord? Moreover, after 19.4 there is no more trace of the 24 elders. If these elders do indeed represent the entire church, what has happened to the glorious church thereafter? Thrones and crowns are symbols of kingship.
4) The white garments which the elders wear are not said to be cleansed by the precious blood; however, in another place 7.14 the white garments are said to have been washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. The white garments here show that the elders are without sin.
5) The song these elders sing is not that of redemption since the song in 4.11 tells of the creation of God. They thus know only God’s creation; they have no personal knowledge of God’s redemption. Though they do sing a new song not of themselves as mentioned in 5.9-10, this is because the Lord has redeemed “them”-not these elders, but men of every tribe and tongue and people and nation. “And madest them to be…” (v.10). The word “them” here refers to the church. Now if it is the church who sings, would she use “them”?
6) All the phenomena in chapter 4 stand for the state of the universe. Besides the throne and the seven Spirits, there are the four living creatures and the 24 elders; none else is mentioned. This indicates that these elders are the elders of the universe. Can we possibly say that the church is the eldest of the universe? Revelation 4 deals with the universe and not with the church, the nations, or the Jews. The church is not an elder of the universe.
7) To carry prayers to God as is shown in 5.8 is not the action of the church. Even though the church is commanded in Scriptures to pray for others, God has not asked her to bring others’ prayers to Him. The church does not have this power. Many commentators agree that the angel spoken of in 8.3-4 refers to the Lord. Whether or not it is the Lord, it can at least be said that the task of carrying prayers to God is done by angels. Thus, bringing prayers of the saints to God as mentioned in 5.8 must be the task of done by the angels.
8) Never once do the 24 elders identify themselves as the church. The “them” in 5.10 is a reference to the church. The “them” in 5.10 is a reference to the church by these elders. If the “them” were indeed an expression of self-identification, the elders should have instead said “us”. What the elders do say clearly distinguishes them from the church. The 24 elders cannot represent the entire church. There are three classes of people in view in 7.13-17, namely: (1) elders, (2) John, and (3) those arrayed in white robes. Should the 24 elders be an allusion to part of the church, it would still make some sense for the elders to ask John, “Who are they, and whence came they [those in white robes]?” But if the 24 elders mean the entire church, it would be absurd for the entire church to ask concerning part of the church.
9) John addresses one of the elders as “my lord” (7.13-17), thus showing the superior position of the elder over John. Otherwise how could the elder permit John to call him “my lord”? (cf. 22.8-9). If the 24 elders represent the church, then John who is among the first in the church, should be the elder of the elders. If John also represents the church, it would then be the church asking the church.
10) The demeanor of the 24 elders before God is most peculiar. They have never been hungry and thirsty like the church nor have they ever shed any tears. They are not afraid of God, neither do they possess any sense of sin. They are strangers to the experience of being redeemed. All these points prove that they are not the redeemed church
Your understanding is blocking you: that is, overassuming that partial rapture means just those at first rapture would be the overcomers. It is not so in your imagination. Overcomers do come from first rapture as well as martyrs from the Tribulation as well as the overcomers from previous centuries raptured at 7th trumpet resurrection also. Read that over carefully and pray about that. To show that you are not reading what I write in having already explained this here is again what I had said: "7th trumpet resurrection though, is the rapture and resurrection of completion of all saved since Adam. First resurrection includes first rapture but not all those in the 7th trumpet resurrection are included in the first resurrection, since the first resurrection is a "best" "out-of" resurrection from the raptures and resurrections of the Tribulation."Quote:
However Rev. 20:4-5 tells us that the tribulation saints take part in the 'first resurrection' meaning that there cannot not be a 'rapture' before that.
This indicates that you are already blocked in your understand, since open simply means no one Bible has control, not the KJV, RSV, ASV, NLT, etc. We need to compare to be sure. Legalists say otherwise and are often KJV onlyist idolists - lazy believism. If it were not so there would have not been hundreds if not thousands of versions of the Bible.Quote:
I am not sure what you mean by 'Open Bible'
ASV is translatted from Greek and Hebrew and so is the RSV and the others. To say they did not consult the Hebrew and Greek is just dumb on your part bearing false witness. That is a sin you know. The KJV relies on the masoretic judaized text a late text giving no consideration for earlier texts, blocking out information it ought to be responsible towards, but it is not.Quote:
I do know that the Greek and Hebrew text that the KJV is translated from is the genuine 'Word of God' while all the rest of the new English versions are either based in whole or part on Westcott and Hort's falsified Greek text and/or they falsely call Gnostic corruptions of God's word the 'oldest and best mss.' (At least in the margins.)
We ought to consider all information, and not selected texts only for we should leave no stone unturned.
Observe your sin in particular. That of speaking in generalities. When you compare the text in study, which is what God wants you to do, even what Wescott and Hort provide, we can determine which is the original by simply picking the best of what is available to show right rendering. As we have seen the KJV has its own set of gnostic teachings and falsified translation producing false teachings like hades is hell or that the 24 archangels are not the 24 elders (24 represents administration), eldest of all elders as the angels were made first, even 24 archangels.
Of course there are errors in modern bibles, but so too are there errors in non-modern bibles which were modern bibles of their day, especially KJV. Therefore, we can be certain the Lord does not bless the lies of the KJV, just as much as God will not bless the errors in any modern version.Quote:
There are many such lies in the modern bibles and because of that they can't be called 'Holy' bibles because the Lord will not bless 'lies'.
The difference between you and I is I proved it more than you have in that I showed specific verses and errors of the KJV, where you speak only in generalities.
Remember, Satan speaks in generalities so as to confuse and not be specific. Satan would want you to be a KJV-onyists instead of thinking for yourself.
Praise the Lord for this discernment!
Here is some helpful questions for you to disclose unhidden (in noticing what your chart points to at the bottom which says Lutherinism and Presbyterianism reforminism-calvinism by name), if you can answer them: do you believe in any aspect of calvinism? Are you a historicalist: ammillennialist, post-millennialist, preterist, pre-wrather, posttribber, or even a pretribber? Do you believe in millennial rewards to come for 1000 years as spoken about in the 3rd last chapter of the Bible? The time of the law looked towards this period, but the time of the prophets even looked further towards eternity future, and of course the NT goes into even greater detail of both the millennial kingdom and eternity future (new earth and new city).
