The Evidence is Before the Atheist but the Atheist Shuts His Mind Down

Printable View

07-03-2011, 07:19 PM
Parture

The Evidence is Before the Atheist but the Atheist Shuts His Mind Down

Re: TamaNewb @ YouTube

Quote:

Originally Posted by TamaNewb

The universe was spawn naturally, there is no need for a god, like i already stated everything is explained in string theory. There is NO non-existence which the universe came from. there IS existence beyond our universe. Just because something is unknown or unknowable doesn't make it impossible. "since god cant be less then us": Why cant a creator create something greater then itself? The Resurrection is and will never be proven. Physical evidence is needed, which doesnt exist.

To spawn naturally needs a cause from something. It can't just happen all by itself like puff the magic dragon. Since you agree the universe can't come from non-existence then you should agree with this point. And since there can't be an infinite regress of cause and effects because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so, we know nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This is whom we call God the uncreated Creator.

Since God is proven yet to reject God and His Son, the Bible is clear: "If anyone does not love the Lord, that person is cursed. Our Lord, come!" (1 Cor. 16.22).

Since God can't be less than us, He is personal and reveals Himself. The lesser can never create the greater. Non-sentience can't produce sentient life. Since you can't create a being greater than you and you can't get non-life to turn into life, you provide this evidence yourself atheism is a lie.

Only in Christianity does God enter His creation. Since the resurrection is proven, this proves Jesus is God for man can't resurrect Himself. Science and physical evidence agree only God could do that. If you don't think the resurrection is proven then come up with a PHYSICAL naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs and their eyewitness testimony that has been physically documented. People don't willingly die for what they know is a lie-this is a physical fact-and group hallucinations are impossible which is also a physical fact.

You previously mentioned something about the moon splitting by Muhammad. How many writings of original eyewitnesses do you have for this alleged splitting of the moon? Who was there to see it? How many centuries later was it written? Why discount a natural phenomenon like something in the atmosphere crossing it's path to cause it to appear to split? Why did nobody else see it in the world which you would expect for such a massive event, including massive tidal waves that scientists say would occur?

Whereas multiple attestation in various group settings are substantial testimony in the case of the disciples up close and personal. They didn't willingly die for a lie, so they truly believed it, yet group hallucinations are impossible.

You really can't ask for a better physical proof than this proof of the physical resurrection of Jesus that is testified to physically and physically recorded on papyri and physically communicated from one generation to the next, e.g. Polycarp was a student of John and Clement of Rome was friends with Peter as physically recorded by these second generation Apostles.
07-03-2011, 08:14 PM
Tamanewb

***To spawn naturally needs a cause from something***

Yes and this cause is that or narutal processes. Just like how atoms form molecules energy formed the universe. How it happen exactly is obviously complex and much is left in the unknown. But to EVER say GOD did it, COMPLETELY stop all research and closes the mind. Closing the mind with religion is something man kind has done endlessly through out exists. If it couldnt be explained the common thing to do was put GOD in its place. How does water fall from the sky? Water god... and so on (pray to the water gods to make it rain).

***The lesser can never create the greater. Non-sentience can't produce sentient life. Since you can't create a being greater than you and you can't get non-life to turn into life, you provide this evidence yourself atheism is a lie.****

Your assuming life can never create life non-biologically. Life is simply an arrangement of molecules working in unison. Life is matter, and just because the technology hasnt arrived to physical manufacture life doesnt mean it will never happen. In fact this advance in science is soon to come (do some research).

I still fail to see the evidence. A BOOK can not claim that the book itself is true. Thats like me convincing 10 friends that a i cant fly and they all wright about it. IT cant be tested, eyewitness evidence is beyond useless, we can go to any magic show and everyone walking out will tell you exactly what they saw.

There is also great reason to believe that Jesus never died on the cross. Its documented that crucifixion lasted between 2-3 days before they would take down the body. IT is highly probable that Jesus simply never died. And using christian logic i can simply say, you cant prove that he died.
07-03-2011, 11:00 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamanewb

Yes and this cause is that or narutal processes. Just like how atoms form molecules energy formed the universe. How it happen exactly is obviously complex and much is left in the unknown. But to EVER say GOD did it, COMPLETELY stop all research and closes the mind. Closing the mind with religion is something man kind has done endlessly through out exists. If it couldnt be explained the common thing to do was put GOD in its place. How does water fall from the sky? Water god... and so on (pray to the water gods to make it rain).

As was said many times, if there was a natural process of infinite regress, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. So nature needs a cause outside of itself that is outside of time and space, being uncreated and this is whom we call the uncreated Creator or God. Why do you avoid this fact? Why shut your mind down?

Here is proven the uncreated Creator. The name "God" is the uncreated Creator. This is what is meant by the word "God." Knowing God did it doesn't mean you should close up shop and stop searching out how things works, but now you have a framework from which to understand God's will, how things work with God in mind and His purpose. Why shut your mind down?

Everyone needs a religion, but we don't need false religion. We need true religion. That true religion is salvation in Christ, for there is no other name under heaven by which one can be saved. It is quite true water from the sky comes from God, for without the planet that God created, water would not exist on this planet, and without God creating the universe earth would not exist. Why shut your mind down to this fact? Don't pray to the created water, but give your life to the Creator of the water. Put down your idols.

Quote:

Your assuming life can never create life non-biologically. Life is simply an arrangement of molecules working in unison. Life is matter, and just because the technology hasnt arrived to physical manufacture life doesnt mean it will never happen. In fact this advance in science is soon to come (do some research).

I still fail to see the evidence. A BOOK can not claim that the book itself is true. Thats like me convincing 10 friends that a i cant fly and they all wright about it. IT cant be tested, eyewitness evidence is beyond useless, we can go to any magic show and everyone walking out will tell you exactly what they saw.

There is also great reason to believe that Jesus never died on the cross. Its documented that crucifixion lasted between 2-3 days before they would take down the body. IT is highly probable that Jesus simply never died. And using christian logic i can simply say, you cant prove that he died.

God is life, and He created the angels which are not biological but spirit. Our spirit is not biological, but our body is biological. As our body is to the physical, our spirit is to the spiritual. Our soul is not biological but soulical and uses the functions mind, will and emotion which are themselves not biological. The brain is just the housing for these functions. The life of the soul is in the blood, down far deeper than you realize, farther than science can see. Molecules are just the apparatus for life, they are not life itself.

You will for eternity reject God by assuming man can create life from non-life.This is your idolatry you erect above God. Yet God is uncreated. Nothing is greater. As each day goes by you are proven wrong ever more so because scientists with increasing advances in science find that they are as confused as ever about how to produce life from non-life. Only God can turn non-life into life for it is God who directly gives man life in his spirit. When God breathed in the breath of life He directly created man's spirit, and when the spirit made contact with the body the soul life was formed. Man became a living soul with a body and a spirit.

A book can claim that the book itself is true and can prove it if the proof is substantial. We do this with all sorts of texts. There is no evidence for your idea the crucifixion lasted three days so why believe something so blindly? No human being has ever been able to survive the cross unsupported by his legs for more than 12 minutes let alone three days. All the data we have both from Christian and non-Christian sources indicate Jesus was taken down a few hours after the cross. Nothing to the contrary except in your deluded mind.

Your attempt at swoon theory that Jesus never died fails you, because obviously, Jesus wouldn't look much like a risen Messiah to the disciples appearing before them all bloodied, holes in his hands and feet, unable to walk, hole in his chest and scourged down to the bone. Who would believe Jesus resurrected in that case? The disciples wouldn't have died for a lie they knew was a lie if Jesus didn't resurrect in that case. Hence, He did resurrect, because He had a resurrected body, without these afflictions.

Remember, the guards would themselves be put to death if Jesus was allowed to live. Science shows if you are placed on the cross suspended for more than 12 minutes without the support of your legs you will suffocate to death. Science shows a person dies when his chest cavity, the cavity surrounding his heart and his heart are pierced. Jesus couldn't even carry the cross going to His death, and He was supposed to have somehow survived this piercing of his chest and nailed to the cross? Think how arrogant you are that you think you could survive this when it is scientifically impossible. Surely you're mad!

So you can see nothing you say makes much sense because your spirit is dead to God, and you don't think properly.
07-04-2011, 10:02 PM
Tamanewb

***As was said many times, if there was a natural process of infinite regress, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. So nature needs a cause outside of itself that is outside of time and space, being uncreated and this is whom we call the uncreated Creator or God. Why do you avoid this fact? Why shut your mind down?***

Ill respond only to this seeing as everything else is basically you preaching.

Care to explain this abit more in detail for me? Infinity is a man made concept, your making a claim based on nothing. Even if i grant you that existence must me infinite, It only opens door to endless possibility. ME happing already? If infinity was a reality i should of happened an infinite amount of times. A Natural cause is that which yields change automatically with out intelligent intervention. It happening naturally means an intelligent being or a god isnt needed.

Time and space are properties on our one universe. With the idea of infinity we should have and infinity number of universes with an infinite number propertie compositions.
07-04-2011, 10:25 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamanewb

Ill respond only to this seeing as everything else is basically you preaching.

This is a lousy excuse to avoid the points made here. It's a way for you to shut your mind down and not deal with reality. One fact leads to the next and as each fact does, you are led inextricably to the fact that you are going to Hell. You call this preaching. I call this reality, fully evidenced-based. If you can't overturn any of the evidence, then you convict yourself. You are guilty as charged. Your choice is to be eternally separated in Hell from God. C. S. Lewis says you lock yourself in Hell from the inside. We lock people in jail for life so why think God would not have an eternal jail for you as you wish to be eternally separated from your Creator? I hope you are getting a sense why this sin is the greatest sin a person could ever commit. Nothing is more evil than this.

Quote:

Care to explain this abit more in detail for me? Infinity is a man made concept, your making a claim based on nothing. Even if i grant you that existence must me infinite, It only opens door to endless possibility. ME happing already? If infinity was a reality i should of happened an infinite amount of times. A Natural cause is that which yields change automatically with out intelligent intervention. It happening naturally means an intelligent being or a god isnt needed.

You're the one who proposes an infinity-an infinite regress of cause and effects-so you are the one who made it up and yet admit it is a "man made concept." So why the doubletalk? I agree. It's a lie. So since infinite regress is impossible and something can't come from nothing then nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This is whom we call God. One of the characteristics of God is being uncreated.

Existence is not infinite in nature in the past. Why would you grant me this when I don't believe that? That makes no sense at all. How can you be so daft? In your infinite regress theory you said there would be infinite possibilities. Even so if there was, you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. The you that you are now would have happened already whether you happened an infinite number of times or not. The you that you are now would have happened already. You're not thinking straight. A natural cause requires an ultimate supernatural cause because infinite regress is impossible. The first cause, thus, must be an Intelligent Designer. An Intelligent Designer is needed. Moreover, non-life can't produce life. It needs an Intelligent Designer. That's what the scientific evidence shows us.

Quote:

Time and space are properties on our one universe. With the idea of infinity we should have and infinity number of universes with an infinite number propertie compositions.

Even so, you should have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. It's very simple, you just don't think. This is the nature of being an atheist. A hostile heart to God doesn't think. Just like in that Casey Anthony murder trial, the prosecutor said Casey avoids, deflects, runs and doesn't deal with these problems and conflicts in the data. That's a difficult case, but the lawyer who won 245 cases in a row in the Guinness Book of Records said the greatest and best proven case he has ever seen is the proof for the resurrection of Jesus. And Simon Greenleaf, the most famous lawyer of the 19th century who produced more jurisprudence than all the lawyers in Europe combined said,

"Every document apparently ancient coming from the proper repository or custody and bearing on its face no evident marks of forgery, the law presumes to be genuine and devolves on the opposing party the burden of proving it to be otherwise."

You've been given every opportunity to make your case and you come up empty for your faith that is therefore, blind faith. You have blind faith in atheism. Your hostility to God breeds this blind faith and shutting your mind down to the evidence right here before you.