Angels Take Up Prayers of the Saints (Gen. 28.12, Rev. 8.3-4)

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02-16-2011, 09:35 AM
Parture

Angels Take Up Prayers of the Saints (Gen. 28.12, Rev. 8.3-4)

Re: Joshua David @ christianityboard.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua David

What is the chapter and verse that states that the angels carry our prayers to God?

It's explained right there in Revelation itself.

"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand" (Rev. 8.3,4).

"Behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it" (Gen. 28.12) taking prayers up to heaven.

"And another angel"—This "another angel" is a priest, hence he must be the Lord Jesus. The prayers of all the saints ascend to God through the incense offered by this angel. No Christian can offer up prayer except by means of incense, which signifies the merits of Christ. Through the sweet savor of Christ a believer’s prayer reaches before God, taken up by angels.

Quote:

If all angels are overcomes, then why aren't all the other unfallen angels seen with crowns? Face it, your argument that the Elders were some type of Rulers of the Universe, was based on the fact that you thought they were wearing ruling crowns.

Only the 24 archangels would have crowns because they are the ruling archangels.

Hence, you can understand why this is such a powerful proof. "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints" (Rev. 5.8).

We are to seek after the Lord, but we can't take our prayers up to Heaven. That's the work of the millions of angels whom the 24 Archangels rule over in Heaven. If there are levels of authority in the demonic realm and among evil spirits how could there not be for the Angels in Heaven?
02-16-2011, 06:02 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua David

Ok the scripture in Rev 8 is a very good scripture, and one that I will study in more detail. Thank you very much for bringing it to my attention. I will study it in detail. But I still would have to disagree with you about the crowns. If the crowns were meant to show any type of rulership then the crowns would have been the a diadem, as shown in Rev 12, 13, and 19.

But I will study it in greater detail since you brought up the scripture in Rev 8. But I do have one question.. Since you say that you believe that this 'Other Angel' is none other than Jesus himself, and we know that Jesus is not an Angel in the sense that we think of angel's, how does that prove that the angels bring God our prayers?

Joshua David

Since it is clear the angels take up the prayers of the saints then the crowns the archangels wear is because of their rulership and overcoming still for the battle is not yet won yet against the demonic realm. Not all angels, but just the 24 archangels wear the crowns because there is also the aspect of rulership over millions of angels. That's all a crown means here. And they overcometh because they kept their abode and did not fall with 1/3 of the angels. Part of the overcomers life is to simply keep what we are confidently assured of.

Let go of your petty self and that will help let the Scriptures breath life into their meaning. Stephanos is also used on Rev. 9.7 for the crown on evil spirits but obviously those are not crowns of overcoming and spiritually pleasing to God, but of rulership in the demonic realm. So I think you are making a mount out of nothing. Often our flesh tries to find some way to exalt itself. That's all you're trying to do. It's a game of one upmanship which is due to pride of trying to vaunt oneself.

I think the question to ask is why use stephanos instead of diadems for the 24 archangels? I think it is because you can only use one term, and to make the choice John went with stephanos because there is also the element of overcoming involved here. In other words, the battle has not yet been won. That seems to be reasonable. There is yet a great war in 2nd heaven that is to take place which Michael will fight for God and for Israel.

Whether Jesus is the "another angel" (Rev. 8.3) or not makes no difference. The aspect of being an "angel" is enough to know the angelic aspect is in taking up the prayers of the saints. It is enough to know it was not man who took up the prayers of the saints, but the hosts of heaven. Praise the Lord. Amen.

"And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand" (Rev. 8.4).
06-12-2012, 11:13 AM
JoReba

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parture

Since it is clear the angels take up the prayers of the saints then the crowns the archangels wear is because of their rulership and overcoming still for the battle is not yet won yet against the demonic realm. Not all angels, but just the 24 archangels wear the crowns because there is also the aspect of rulership over millions of angels. That's all a crown means here. And they overcometh because they kept their abode and did not fall with 1/3 of the angels. Part of the overcomers life is to simply keep what we are confidently assured of.

Let go of your petty self and that will help let the Scriptures breath life into their meaning. Stephanos is also used on Rev. 9.7 for the crown on evil spirits but obviously those are not crowns of overcoming and spiritually pleasing to God, but of rulership in the demonic realm. So I think you are making a mount out of nothing. Often our flesh tries to find some way to exalt itself. That's all you're trying to do. It's a game of one upmanship which is due to pride of trying to vaunt oneself.

I think the question to ask is why use stephanos instead of diadems for the 24 archangels? I think it is because you can only use one term, and to make the choice John went with stephanos because there is also the element of overcoming involved here. In other words, the battle has not yet been won. That seems to be reasonable. There is yet a great war in 2nd heaven that is to take place which Michael will fight for God and for Israel.

Whether Jesus is the "another angel" (Rev. 8.3) or not makes no difference. The aspect of being an "angel" is enough to know the angelic aspect is in taking up the prayers of the saints. It is enough to know it was not man who took up the prayers of the saints, but the hosts of heaven. Praise the Lord. Amen.

"And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand" (Rev. 8.4).

Does this information affect how we are to pray?
06-12-2012, 11:52 AM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoReba

Does this information affect how we are to pray?

Yes, I believe misreading this passage can affect one's prayers because if you delusionally think you take up your own prayers, you will rely on your own self-strength rather than God's way of doing things by employing the angels to take up our prayers. However, I do think the reason why someone believes they can take up their own prayers is because they are already deluded; thus, Jesus hardens your heart further allowing you to pray even more selfish prayers that are not in accordance with His will.