Dave Hunt's Free Will (True Molinism) vs. Libertarian William Lane Craig

Libertarian free will is not what OSAS Arminians believe by the way, because to be Libertarian is to surmise that you can go against God's provisions. Whereas OSAS Arminians believe with God all our choices fall within His creation and enabling grace even to have the choice to refuse salvation eternally.

What distinguishes a Christian from a non-Christian (or should I say a false Christian) is that our God provides sufficient grace to all by the drawing power of God's Holy Spirit to have the choice whether through common or special grace of the gospel.

There are clear Scriptures Calvinists shut their minds down to: "He is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him" (Heb. 7.25).

One ought not to neglect human ability and responsibility. You should not make an idol of inability by making it Totally unable. Don't take glory in man's alleged inability. Believing in Christ and receiving from Him the free gift of eternal life requires no ability-a child can believe.

James White mistakenly thinks man's free will would allow man "to frustrate the intentions of the triune God saving him." (Debating Calvinism, 75, Dave Hunt vs. James White). Why would God be anymore frustrated than by Israel who rejected Him? If Calvinism is true and God decrees all (without sufficient grace for all), why is He complaining? "I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me" (Is. 1.2).

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Rom. 1.16).

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him" (Heb. 11.6).

Ken Keathley writes,

Some scholars understand the warning passages to be admonishing believers about the danger of eternal judgment while at the same time they hold that the Scriptures teach that a believer cannot apostatize. Three positions attempt to reconcile these two seemingly contrary concepts....

Ochuk's Blog, said about Craig: "As far as I can tell Craig is able to make sense of the real possibility of falling away and the means necessary for guarding against it via God’s middle knowledge, which Calvinism cannot."

Knowledge without saving faith - On the flip side, it is equally clear that someone could have knowledge that Christianity is true without having saving faith. We may start by considering the demons, who know with certainty that Christianity is true, and tremble - but they do not have saving faith.

It is at least conceivable that there are people who in their heart of hearts know that the Lord is calling them and that the gospel is true. But they cannot, or will not, respond. They are so tied up in themselves, or so committed to their own pleasures or fears, that they can’t get outside that to make the right choice. If so, then they have knowledge without saving faith.

I testify against William Lane Craig. He is a non-OSASer which means he does not worship the same God I worship who gives eternal life at new birth which can never be taken away and therefore, I am left with the only conclusion he is not born-again.

http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...=6205#post6205

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Originally Posted by Churchwork

...our God provides sufficient grace to all by the drawing power of God's Holy Spirit to have the choice whether through common or special grace of the gospel.

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Here's my big question for libertarians on this point. If God has given the same grace to all, why do some believe and others don't? Are the ones who believe inherently better (works)? Do they have more willpower (works)? I'm ok with the fact that God wouldn't be frustrated if he set the world up so that people could defy him because they had a free will. I just have yet to hear anyone tell me what in the world libertarian free will is that doesn't rely on some form of inherent goodness or causality.

Christians are not libertarians, but I will answer the question anyway. You asked if God gave the same grace to all, but where does God give the same grace to all? Why assume that? Rather, God's grace is sufficient for all to have the free choice. You asked why do some believe and some do not? Because they have been given the free choice as sovereign free willed human beings made in His image. God has provided them with the best world ensemble possible yet in that world most still reject God with the free choice to do so.

This is right where the Calvinist gets stuck because instead of accept God does something we can't understand how He does it, he has to try to get into God's mind and make rules for God that go contrary to His mind. The Calvinist in doing so has no humility and is trying to get ahead of God's mind when God has not given you the ability to understand how He does some things. Can you accept this God?

Since salvation is not by works then it is not more or less works why a person is saved and another is not. Since a person can't will themselves into being saved as Calvinists try to do by assuming they were irresistibly selected then that is not the reason why a few are saved and most are not. Though it can be said that is why a Calvinist is not saved because he refuses to genuinely search God out with all his heart and soul to receive the gift of repentance and faith to be regenerated.

You keep arguing against libertarian free will, but Christians don't believe in libertarian free will so why carry on like that as though we do? That's sinning bearing false witness. OSAS Arminians believe not in libertarian free will but sovereign free will made in God's image. He has provided total provision for and is within His divine providence and allowance. This is something your god can't do so God trumps your god every time! Praise the Lord! Hallelujah!