Calvinists Admit They Refuse to Repent as Christians Have

Re: Justified - CARM

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Originally Posted by Justified

Enemies are in the quicksand, devising evil against God because that is what they love to do. God has determined to take certain ones out, because He has set His love upon them, and in doing so He does not leave them enemies, but through the person and work of Christ makes them His friends, and indeed, His children.

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A person who is born into sin which is not their own fault is an enemy of God? Why not believe in a loving God that doesn't irresistibly impose salvation on people and Who is just in providing sufficient grace to all to have the choice?

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The question I would ask you is this. If you believe they are children already who are lost and dying, then why wouldn't all be irresistably drawn out? I would not leave my children in the quicksand, true enough, but ... they are my children, not enemies out for the harm of my children.

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Those children are not perishing, for remember, God provides them sufficient grace so that when they reach the age of accountability they have true authentic choice to receive what Jesus did on the cross. So do you see your mistaken assumption about them perishing is a false one? And God doesn't need to irresistibly draw them out, since He provides them sufficient grace to be able to respond. He draws everyone, but sadly many such as yourself "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). If He is like your god and irresistibly imposes, then He removes the choice to refuse God; then the will is not free to choose all options. That's true free will.

I assume when you say "they are children already" you mean saved. No, they are not saved in the sense of them having chosen Christ to be born-again for they have not reached the age of accountability yet to have the choice. Since God is just, He would never send that child to Hell just because they were born into sin.

Apparently, you would leave your children in quicksand (preterition) because you worship a god who created two souls made in his image, yet no fault of their own let one or both sink. Why not give your life to the God who provides sufficient grace to both by extending His hand out to both to grab hold? If it is incumbent upon us to treat each other this way, then why would you worship a god with standards less than our own? Unless of course, you are not actually a Christian.

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I would also ask how it is that one who does not see the gravity of sin on a person, including themselves, can truly repent? From the analogy, sin poses danger, but it does not affect the essential nature of the person.

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God has given the word to show us the gravity of sin. In fact, even without the word of God, people have the law written in their own hearts to know the gravity of sin and have received common grace, so they can repent through the grace of God by faith. Their salvation is summed up in Christ because if they were given the word they would surely accept the Lord Jesus.

You make God out to be a sadistic bastard calling people to repent but you claim they can't. "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17.31). Clearly, if God calls you to repent, you can repent, so repent and receive Christ so He will regenerate you. This is my prayer for you.

Re: simplelife

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Originally Posted by simplelife

Oh I get it. What you mean by "adding" is that we assume God shows more grace than he actually does, right?

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No, Christians don't think irresistible grace is grace at all. It is forced just as sending people to Hell for being born into sin is not mercy or love or just.

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First, I didnt say "not all", I lean toward total restoration. Second, God shows grace upon whom he will, and hardeneth whom he will. It's up to Him.

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In providing sufficient grace to all, God hardens whom He hardens and shows grace upon whom He will even though you don't know how He does this in all its fine detail. Even though He has given you grace, you refuse to receive what He did for you so like the Pharaoh, He hardens your heart further off of the first active instance of you hardening your own heart first.

You will more likely repent one day and give your life to Christ by God hardening your heart further. If He sits back and pretends like there is no problem, you will never give your life to Christ. Hardening is the best thing that could happen to you now.

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Could you give an example where someone went to jail for giving someone something wonderful, and the recipient rejoiced and treasured it forever?

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Why would I need to come up with an example for that? How does that question relate to what I said? "It is not grace to irresistibly impose salvation on someone. People go to jail for that." How is it irresistible grace when it destroys free will? Calvinism is a prison. What you call wonderful Christians call Hell.

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The contast in my opinion is between works, and a trust in God (which is a fruit of the Spirit) which reveals salvation to us.

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It is a work to repent and believe in Christ? But the Bible disagrees with you. "By grace are ye saved, through faith;...not of works" (Eph. 2.8-9); "But to him that worketh not, but believeth..." (Rom. 4.5). Why confuse faith with works? "Repent, and be baptized every one of you" (Acts 2.38). "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16.31).

To trust in God is by the wooing of His Spirit and grace. It would be a fruit of the Spirit given to you if you were willing to come to God with an honest heart, but you are not willing. Looking back upon your situation you can know you are not saved because you reject God who provides sufficient grace for all; you worship a Hitler-type god who sends children to the gas chambers just because they are were born into sin; and he irresistibly imposes salvation on his Aryan race. Do you see now how you are demonically possessed thinking you are saved just because by your works or self-strength assumed you were irresistibly selected? Delusionally exalting yourself and trying to come to Christ selfishly will never work. That's a false way to come to Christ. God will never save someone like that. Better that you know this now.