The Uncreated (Always Existed) Created
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Originally Posted by TheDemiprist
You'll find something...that only two worldviews exist in the world and only one must be 'wrong.'
The problem with your theory that if all are wrong then nothing we know of is right, and if nothing is right, you have no basis for anything and always pride yourself on everyone being wrong which you self-exalt yourself over others with, when actually some can be right. For example, if we can prove gravity is true then we can plainly accept this world-view is true. Plus, you contradict yourself because if all worldviews are wrong then yours is true, so you are wrong to claim that everyone's view is wrong. There is an inherent contradiction in your theorizing, for how can all worldviews be wrong and not yours when you claim all worldviews are wrong (which necessarily includes yours)?
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God is non-existent/uncreated.
Since I first introduced this word "uncreated" to you with its specific meaning I was using, why change the meaning to misrepresent what I am saying? Christians don't use the definition of uncreated to mean non-existent, but use the dictionary definition of uncreated to refer to God always existing, so why misrepresent the Christian position to argue against the Christian position? That is violating Step 3 of the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God.
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Jesus isn't 'God'. There are no gods but YHWH.
God said to Moses, "I AM THAT I AM" (Ex. 3.14). Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1.8). "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10.28-30). Jesus is Jehovah, the 2nd Person of Elohim, one with the Father Yahweh. Jehovah is a derivation of Yahweh.
If only God can forgive sins and Jesus forgave man's sins, then He is claiming to be Yahweh. To prove it He was resurrected which only God can do. Jesus resurrected Himself, for how can death hold down God?
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'God is uncreated' equates to 'God is non-existent'. You always talk about a non-existent 'creator'.
No, when I speak of God uncreated I am referring to Him always existing. That would be strange if I or an Christian believed God didn't always exist, for He existed before the foundations of the world.
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'Uncreated created' is a contradiction.
Not at all, not in the sense Christians use the term, 'uncreated.'
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You haven't presented why 'uncreated created' isn't a contradiction. I already did my part, the burden is not on me.
You haven't done your part, for you say there is a contradiction, but you have to show it first. I don't need to do anything but respond to your allegation to show if it is true or false.
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Show where atheism requires something to be created from nothing.
Since atheists claim there is no need for God and God does not exist, then an atheist has to ask himself where did the universe come from. If it was not always existing and was not created by God, then the only possibility left is that it came from nothing, but that is illogical because nothing can't produce something. Nothing always comes from nothing.
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Statement A: "Everybody else believes X existed, so X existed."
Statment B: "Belief is not evidence for the existence of X, X holds no evidence for it's existence." ('X' here is Jesus). Statement A is fallacious and doesn't provide evidence for the existence of Jesus. Statement B addresses Statement A, explaining why Statement A is not evidence of Jesus' existence. Statement A will project that Statement B is delusional, which is a baseless claim. Statement B is logical as to why 'they believe it, why don't you?' is a problem.
It is not that everybody believes X, so X existed, but almost all skeptical scholars believe a number of X's for good reasons, and it is because of those reasons, Christians agree with skeptical non-believers about certain things surrounding the resurrection claims even though non-Christians don't accept Jesus as God. And since no naturalistic explanation can account for the resurrection claims based on this data, then the only possibility that exists is that God who is uncreated resurrected Himself. Since no Statement B is forthcoming from you, we can accept it is true Jesus is God.
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We can't move onto the next point until you get over this: I have nothing to admit, no 'wrong' I've made is listed, I haven't misread anything.
Since I am not allowed to post on those forums where we were talking, I have invited you here to continue the conversation, if you are willing. I have shown you how you misread and you have not shown otherwise. Thus, you are wrong, and you should admit it, so we can move onto your other issues. No point in addressing your other issues if you can't get past this first point.
Praise the Lord for this discernment! Amen.
