Mockers and Scoffers of the First Rapture and Resurrection at the 7th Trumpet
Re: kaoticprofit @ christianityboard.com
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Originally Posted by kaoticprofit
I quoted where 'eklektos' is used. Jesus is quoted as saying in verse Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days.
After the Tribulation of those days is after parousia. The Jews can return because the war is over. Whereas the saints are raptured at various points before. You do not include yourself with those saints, that is your choice. Before Rev. 19 we see saints in 3rd heaven in Rev. 7, 11 and 15. Without knowing anything else it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize to be in heaven before Jesus returns requires a rapture before Jesus returns.
They are not even called Christians yet when you require all elect all be Christians. Immediately after the Tribulation of those days the Jews can gather not before. The same is true of Christians as overcomers return with Christ to gather and assemble. Rev. 7.1-8 are Jews. 144,000. Rev. 14.1-5 are Christians. Also 144,000. God has in view both groups, but elects them in different ways for different purposes: one to be a nation, the other for eternal life. This is a wonderful blessing you have seeing it explained this way.
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Look at this definition. Jews aren't implied anywhere. I've quoted several verses that prove the word 'eklektos' refers to all Christian's. The word doesn't denote the Jewish race of people.
In context.
A. 24.1-31 concerns the Jews, since everything here is literally interpreted; but 24.32-25.46 concerns the church since everything there is spiritually interpreted. For example, “winter” in verse 20 is literal since it is in actual fact a difficult thing to flee in the winter (“sabbath” too is literal); “summer” in verse 32, however, is to be spiritually interpreted since it points to the soon coming of the kingdom (while the “fig tree” refers to the nation of Israel). Or as another example, in verse 26 “the inner chambers” must be interpreted literally, whereas in verse 43 “the house” is to be interpreted spiritually. Hence what concerns the Jews is to be literally interpreted; but what concerns the church is to be spiritually interpreted (see Matt. 13.11-13).
B. The part before24.31 is full of Jewish background, as is made clear by the usage of such terms as “the holy place” (v.15), “in Judea” (v.16), and “sabbath” (v.20); but the part after24.31 is plainly without any localized restriction in its terminology.
C. The things mentioned before 24.31 are physical in nature, whereas all those things mentioned afterwards are moral in character. For instance, the nations, the mothers with children, and the children mentioned in the first part are all physical or literal in meaning; yet the virgins, the servants and the householder, and the goats and the sheep cited in chapter 25 have moral implications about them. In addition, “go . . . forth” in 24.26 and “went forth” in 25.1 are different in character, with the former being literal and the latter being moral in their implications.
D. Before 24.31 there is no moral demand included; what is required is to flee. But after 24.31 there are moral demands presented, such as watch, be ready, and so forth—which actions are the responsibilities of the saints at the end time.
E. Since the Jews are still expecting the Messiah, there are false Christs being mentioned before 24.31; but there is no word about false Christs after 24.31, because the latter part is addressed to the church.
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Quote the other verses where you say 'eklektos' implies Jews! I really want to see them!
1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24.22-24).
vv.23-24 The purpose of these verses is to show that the parousia of the Lord is not secretive towards the Jews, rather is it to be an open affair. He will not manifest himself only after being on the earth for some time. No, the Lord shall come in the clouds and appear on the earth. Hence this section serves as a warning to the Jews lest they be deceived by the Antichrist. The Lord’s coming will be neither “here” nor “there”—but it will quite clearly come out of heaven. Christian believers have no such problem, but the Jews do. Because they have rejected Jesus, they are still waiting for a Messiah who will dwell in their midst. Here or there means anywhere. Yet Christ shall come from heaven as lightning comes forth (see v.27). Therefore, all who claim to be Christs manifested on earth are false Christs.
False Christs and false prophets are in plural number, thus indicating that there shall be more than one. Great signs and wonders will be performed during the three and a half years. And why? For the simple reason that the dragon will give his power to the first and the second beasts. Both 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13 record the wonders performed by these big three. Such wonders are not mere tricks or magic; nevertheless, the intention behind these wonders will be to cause people to believe in lies. They are the very opposite of the wonders of the Lord, which aim at leading people to believe the truth. The more we observe how evil spirits work wonders even in our own day, the more we are convinced that the lies of Satan are very real. Christians who live in the end time need to be especially careful. We receive the truth not because of seeing wonders, but because of trusting in the word of God. Take note that wonders will be greatly increased in the last days.
“So as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect”—The elect point to the Jews (Is. 45.4, 65.9; Deut. 7.6), though so far as the applicability of this verse’s teaching goes, we Christians are not completely excluded. We also have the possibility of being deceived. He who thinks he stands should take heed lest he fall.
"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me" (Is. 45.4). "And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there" (Is. 65.9)
Jesus has not departed from the Jewish people as his chosen nation to be the center of all nations in Matt. 24.4-31.
You don't want to be included in the first rapture but you take away this hope, for with the hope of the return of Christ is the hope of being received before the Tribulation and escape the hour of trial at the end of this age (Rev. 3.10) if you keep the word of His patience.
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I take no hope away from myself. You have faith in a false hope. One that you will be scoffed at about.
2 Peter 3:3 ¶Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
At least you admit when a couple million vanish you will scoff at them as you scoff at those who seek to be worthy to be raised up before the trumpets of the Tribulation.
You are one of those Peter is speaking about in 2 Pet. 3.4. "They will say, What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? (You mock the rapture that gets overcomers into 3rd heaven in Rev. 7.9 before the Trib and even to the air at 11.15, 15.2-4 that occurs before Rev. 19 when Jesus steps down). From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.” I wouldn't hold your hat on the fact things have remained the same up till now. Things are a changing. The Tribulation is Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.
Remember the first rapture.
"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" (Matt. 24.40,42).
Who is to watch? The Christian since it speaks of "your Lord". What happens if you watch or don't watch?
If you watch, will you be taken or will you be left?
The Lord comes to take and not leave. A thief in the night comes to steal the best first.
So if you are watchful you will be taken at the first rapture before the Tribulation starts.
Death is no blessing so to be left and die is not good. To be taken is better than being martyred in the Tribulation.
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21.36).
All these things that come to pass is the Tribulation. To stand before the Son of Man is in 3rd heaven "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9).
To be accounted worthy to escape the Tribulation you would need to be prayerful.
But God can't promise you won't be martyred when you enter the Tribulation, so this promise to escape the Tribulation can only be assured if you are raptured for keeping the word of His patience.
If "thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Rev. 3.10.
This hour of trial is the Tribulation which comes upon the whole world. A Christian can only be assured escape it if he is raptured.
God can't promise you won't be martyred if you enter the Tribulation, so this referring to the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) before the trumpets of the Tribulation commence (8.7ff).
In summary: Overcomers are raptured at the first rapture (Rev. 7.9). Non-overcomers though saved pass through the Tribulation to be resurrected and/or raptured at the start of the 7th trumpet (1 Thess. 4.14-18, Rev. 11.15, 15-2-4) near the end of the Tribulation, but before the bowls of wrath, since it is the 7th trumpet that contains the bowls of wrath and we are not appointed unto wrath. Jesus returns with 10,000 overcomer believers (Jude 14,15) after the 7th trumpet-the 2,520 day of the Tribulation or 1260th day of the Great Tribulation-to reign with His overcomers over nations (Rev. 2.26) with a "rod of iron" for 1000 years (20.4-6). The Day of the Lord spans from the first rapture according to readiness to the 7th trumpet general rapture and resurrection according to completion to Jesus returning with His overcomers to reigning with them for 1000 years. As a day is to the Lord so is a 1000 years with us. "The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Pet. 3.10).
Many have no faith to believe this, but it is amply proven in God's word in the plain reading of the Scriptures. And "Chiliasm" was the word used in the first and second centuries by the early church fathers for premillennialism so premillennialism existed long before the great schism.
