The Nature Between the Father and the Son

The Nature between the Father and the Son

God does not want to hand us everything on a platter, but He takes joy in us finding Him so He does not make it extremely easy in the Scriptures. Even so, we got to be sure! We all want to feel special with a special idea so various organizations start up, but may not be right. If God is more than One Being, the burden of the proof is on the person who believes this considering the agreement of historical Christianity of God being One Uncreated Being Father, Son and Spirit, and the Bible not saying otherwise. We are put in the position to be humble and not assume more. This is true humility! Who is being worshiped if the God of the Bible was created? Why worship a created being?

If there was an eternity of the past of gods creating gods, then we would have had an eternity to be perfected without sin, yet we all know we all still sin. Even the best of us are selfish at times. Depending on which god you worship from the past in the chain of cause and effect, it becomes very confusing which god to worship. Who is the author of confusion? We existed before the foundations of the world in God’s heart in creating us, but before that we were not reincarnated. If the cycle of reincarnation is true then sin has no everlasting consequence, but you always get another chance. Is this righteous?

“making himself equal with God” (John 5.18). “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Heb. 13.8). He always was. “Unto him [be] glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages” (Eph. 3.21). “O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” (John 17.5). Co-equal.

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD” (Deut. 6.4). One Being or 3 beings being Lord? How could the Bible express it any better to say He is One Being?

“Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Isaiah 43.10). Nobody created God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit; even God the Father did not create the Son nor the Spirit; the life of the Father and the Son is the Spirit. “the Spirit of your Father” (Matt. 10.20).

“I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God” (Isaiah 44.6). How many times need it be said, God is uncreated? “Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any]” (Isaiah 44.8). “even from everlasting to everlasting, thou [art] God” (Psalm 90.2). From everlasting means from the eternity of the past being uncreated! Jesus “whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting” (Micah 5.2). “The same was in the beginning with God” (John 1.2). Wow!


"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1.3). If everything is made by Jesus, then nothing exists concurrently with His existence in the past, but is emanated from Him. Therefore, He is uncreated. Jesus didn't create the Father, so the Father is uncreated equal with the Son, and since there can only be one uncreated being in the eternity of the past, not multiple beings, as then you would have to ask where these others come from, you know the Trinity is true.

“I and [my] Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him” (John 10.30-31). How better can the Bible say that the Father and Son are One Being?

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Eph. 2.6-11).

At the beginning a council was held within the Godhead. God conceived a plan to create the universe. In that plan the Godhead agreed to have authority represented by the Father. But authority cannot exist alone. God must therefore find obedience in the universe. Two living beings were to be created: angels (spirits) and men (living souls). According to His foreknowledge God foresaw the rebellion of the angels and the fall of men; hence He was unable to establish His authority in angels or in the Adamic race. Consequently, within the Godhead perfect accord was reached that authority would be reached by the obedience of the Son. From this come the distinctive operations of God the Father and God the Son but not separate. One day God the Son emptied himself, and being born in the likeness of men. He became the symbol of obedience. Inasmuch as rebellion came from the created beings, so obedience must now be established in the created being. Man sinned and rebelled; therefore the authority of God must be erected on man’s obedience. This explains why the Lord came to the world and was made as one of the created men.

“the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever…But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you” (1 Peter 1.23,25). The Word of God was not corrupted or lost in anyway in the 66 books. Any book added called God’s Word, the fullness of the Jesus embodied on paper, is not and could not be, for we did not receive the partial Word of God. God would not leave man empty handed for 1800 years or in the case of Islam, 600 years.

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16.18). The Church was not corrupted. There is always a remnant of spiritual Christians and carnal Christians despite the unsaved tares operating in the sphere of the kingdom trying to look like the saved wheat.

Rev. 22.4, "they shall see his face" is referring to "God and the Lamb" (v.3) as One Being.

“who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things” (Heb. 1.3). One substance with the Father!

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble” (James 2.19). One God means no god before God. How better can the Bible say it?

“thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by [them that are] no gods” (Jer. 5.7). Israel had forsaken belief in no gods but One uncreated God.

If after a review of a few of these verses, and a person still don't want to listen, why waste your time? You may want to convince a person with many verses but if a person doesn’t want to listen after reading only a few verses then why waste your time? Did the Messiah waste his time in such a way? I’ve said it many times before and I’ll say it many more times, people believe what they want to believe. Only the few who love true honest reason will listen to Truth.

I walk by the mormon church every day and felt compelled to go in. I met with two missionaries and we discussed on the phone and in person for several hours and this was my defense of Christianity in the opening post.

I asked one of them what words could the Bible supply to convince them, hypothetically, that Jesus is uncreated, the Father is uncreated and the Sprit is uncreated, One Being, the Trinity?

The response was intriguing. They said nothing. So you see even if the Bible said "The Father, Son and Spirit are One Being Uncreated..." in those exact words the mormon would still reject it.

I also learned that these missionaries were born into mormonism. This seems to be the normal condition down through generational lines, that their parents brainwashed them subconsciously into it at the youngest of ages and they do not have a will of their own anymore. When you are around something long enough quite often you become that thing.

So I said to them they have an assumed position, but considering the history of Christianity not taking the position that God is created, to suggest such a thing in mormonism 1800+ years later would need some substantial evidence. Then I said, doesn't Satan take such an assumed position also, needing no evidence for his self-exalted position? And if there is an eternity of the past of gods creating gods then which god should be worshiped and why worship a lesser created god? Why not worship the god that created the god you worship? Alas, he is created too! Satan is author of confusion. If there had been an eternity of the past of gods creating gods, wouldn't you have had an eternity to be without sin? Yet you still sin, so it cannot be true that there is an eternity of the past of gods creating gods. Thus, mormonism must be a lie.

These mormons started to get very angry and irate with me. It was at that moment I had to high tail it out of there. As I was leaving they were praying out loud for me to receive the prophet Joseph Smith. Inititially I suggested we not pray to start the meeting because they would be praying for their god which I refused and I did not want to be pretentious in praying for my God to them which they reject in Christianity. In this way we both be respectful to each other.

One added interesting point is when they talked about how Jesus is at the right hand of the Father therefore Jesus is a separate being than the Father. I responded by saying, yes it is true Jesus is seen by Stephen at the right hand of the Father, but nothing is said about actually seeing the Father, for no man has ever seen God the Father as the council of the Godhead only provides for seeing the Son at the right hand of the Father and knowing the Father at the throne even though not seeing the Father. That Jesus is seen distinct from the Father is no indication of Him being separate, but we are given a visual of the Son of God whom we come to the Father through. Obviously, already we know God has provided for us to see the Son since He was already seen almost 2000 years ago in Person and He will return to be seen to reign on earth for 1000 years and be the center of the new city in the new earth thereafter. Amen.

Any further advice on my encounter?