Alvin Plantinga Tries to Defends Non-OSAS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin Plantinga
Maybe you should be careful about claiming people are unsaved. "Judge not, that you be not judged", says the Bible, and nowhere in the Bible do I read that you must believe in predestination in order to be saved. What I do read is that whoever believes in in Jesus, God's son, shall be saved, and all the evidence is that Bill Craig does that.
I was being careful so how do you shake off this evidence? I think the Bible would agree that which you try to defend that is false you are guilty of.
I am not judged for this same judgment because I don't believe a person can lose salvation, and I did not give my life to such a god. I believe in God of the Bible who says those who are born-again, "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Alvin, I am disappointed, a great scholar that you are, that you would misuse his verse, because you took it out of context. The context is "...for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged..." (Matt. 7.2). God never tells us not to judge but that if we do judge we ought to be careful because the same judgment comes upon us if we do or believe the same thing. Fortunately I do not believe what Willaim Lane Craig does, 1.2 billion Roman Church do and nearly 800 million protestants believe. Wide is the gate and broad is the bath that leads to destruction. Do you believe it is possible you could lose salvation also? is that why you defend this teaching? Or is it because you are very liberal in your faith and ecumenical that there are many paths to salvation? I am not sure which view is worse. Both are deplorable.
The Holy Spirit tells me you are misusing the term predestination. You are using predestination to mean a person can never lose salvation. Predestination, rather, refers to how God saves. There are three kinds of predestination. God can:
- predestinate us foreknowing our free-choice to be in a salvation where one could one day walk away from the relationship (non-OSASer),
- predestinate us by irresistibly making a person to be saved without their choice in the matter (Calvinism), or
- predestinate by foreknowing our free choice to the God who keeps.
The latter has the humility and repentance the former two do not.
There is the Christ unto salvation of being once-saved-always-saved and the Christ of a false salvation of claiming you can lose salvation tomorrow by giving your life to that god who doesn't surely keep. Eventually everyone would be unsaved because in eternity eventually everyone fall away based on their own works. The Bible time and again in verses tells me I can never lose salvation, so when Craig the Wesleyan comes along and says I can, I feel Satan speaking through him trying to cast doubt. I will not be spending eternity with such evil lies and deceived ones. This is how, like the Bible says, we shall know a person by their fruits.
All the evidence tells me (e.g. those who were born-again "they shall never perish" John 10.28) Craig is not saved, because he refuses to give his life to the Christ who keeps. Just think, for eternity he will continue to profess he could yet still lose salvation based on his prideful works. In his own audio series on Hell, he admits that those who go to Hell are those who have something they use to keep themselves perpetuity separated from God. Because he is naturally stronger than us he will outlast us all if the salvation he purports were true. I am thankful to God I don't have to spend eternity with people like that in the New City and New Earth because there is none that will think like that. As that is not love.
You said there is no evidence in the Bible Craig is unsaved? The Bible teaches salvation is not by works, lest any man should boast. Craig tried to save himself by works, because it is by works he tries to keep himself saved by the fact that by those works he can lose his salvation he will attest. "Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2.9). 2 billion is a "little flock" (Luke 12.32)?
Am I to take it you also believe you can lose salvation? If such is the case, then I can understand why Craig respects you, because you think like him. And by your words you project liberally then about 2 billion, actually nearly 7 billion people on the planet (because all false religions teach salvation by works) could be saved. If this is the kind of salvation you think God is talking about, it explains why you defend the salvation of the great harlot of religious Rome held by William Lane Craig. If the net is cast wide enough it could include you.
It's not enough to just accept philosophical proofs of the uncreated Creator, you will need to give your life to the true Jesus who once-saves-always-saves. Now one may not have this in their awareness when they were truly saved, but surely if you hold to a liberal and false salvation afterward as you do, it tells people you were never saved to begin with since you never gave your life to the God who keeps. As Dave Hunt would say, that would be a weird kind of salvation if you could get saved, lose it, get it back again, and lose it again.
I know William Lane Craig is not born-again, and all else being equal, I don't believe you are saved Alvin Plantinga on two grounds: 1) you believe Craig and most non-OSASers and Calvinists would be saved, and you chose a Calvinist university (after the murderous Protestant Pope of Geneva) to do your work and frequent a Calvinist church; and 2) you seem to hold the same non-OSAS view by the fact that you said there is nothing in the Bible about it being wrong. At the very least this is an allowance for this sin. Are you a non-OSASer Calvinist? That's the vibe you are giving off. That is to say, you believe God irresistibly makes some people lose salvation? Satan is the author of confusion and father of lies. And what you defend as well as what you don't defend reveals your condition. Teaching a person has free will to eventually leave God never gives the person the choice to give their lives to the God who keeps and humbly accepting we can't keep ourselves saved. Thus, the free will Alvin Plantinga purports is not the true free will God give at all.
I don't need both points to confirm your unsalvation. One would suffice. All I am doing is observing your words and conduct noticing something is very wrong. A Christian who is not willing to speak up for the truth and who does not speak the truth is not in the truth and is no Christian at all. This is something you erect as an idol to keep yourself eternally separated from God.
