The Unsaved Non-OSASer Wants a Selfish Out-Clause

Re: Buruc
http://www.youtube.com/user/Buruc

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Originally Posted by Buruc

I think your mistaken. OSAS is only in place if one does not reject God. we have free will. and if we have a relationship with God and have felt the holy spirit and if we then reject God. we've known God yet rejected him like the angels. and we cannot be saved again. by rejecting God you are lost, no one can take out out of his hand except you yourself. btw, whether or not one believes OSAS it does not concern your salvation.

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No person who is truly saved will ever reject God since God keeps us. Just know that you are not born again because you received Satan's facsimile, a false salvation that you claim is from the Holy Spirit. If you want to be saved give your life to the God who keeps and not one with a selfish out-clause like William Lane Craig and Wesley have. They are men of unsaveable works. Wesley can't be saved now, but William Lane Craig may yet one day give his life to Christ though likely will not.

When God says "they shall never perish" they shall never perish. It doesn't say they shall never perish if they keep working for it. We are not saved by works lest any man should boast. Christians are those who gave their lives to the God who keeps knowing we can't keep ourselves saved. Whereas you pride yourself on your own strength of belief to keep yourself saved in your alleged salvation. There is no silly rule in God's word that says after being saved if you reject God then you can't be saved. Such a person was never saved to begin with.

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the works that are refered to are works people do to work their way up to God. but to have faith is to put trust in that which God (jesus) did for you on the cross. having faith or not does in no way attribute anything to that work that Christ did for us. "they shall never perish" who is the "they" that Jesus refers to? it is those who follow him and not the unbelieving Jews. therefore one must believe or have faith to be saved. we are saved by faith not through works!! i completely agree! but having faith is not works. it seems alot of christians believe that to have faith is a work. but this is simply not the case. cont..

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In your faith your change of faith to having no faith shows you did not have true faith to begin with because the faith that you had was based on works to keep you faithful. Just know that you did not give your life humbly to God to keep you from changing your mind. "They shall never perish" is referring obviously to those who are born-again. You don't realize you are trying to save yourself by works, because your works can convince you one day to lose the faith that you think you now have.

Just know you are not a Christian because you never gave your life to the God who keeps, humbly accepting that you could never keep yourself saved or keep yourself on believing either.

I've noticed there is something wrong in the thinking of those who when they refer to Christians they call them christians without the capital C. At the very least it is an indicator something is wrong.

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i'd like to repond to one thing, because i wouldnt want you to say i'm lost (which many have done) but God cannot force you to remain if you choose to leave. if you do you are lost. salvation is by faith, faith is placing trust in that which we know. if you do not want to have faith. you are lost. God cannot do the logically impossible and make you choose that which you dont want. even after you are saved!

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God doesn't force a person to stay, but gives what Christians wanted, the mercy and strength to stay faithful so that we never change our minds like you do. You d not want to have the kind of faith the Bible describes to be once-saved-always-saved which shows clearly you want a selfish salvation with an out-clause. You would like to get out of the contract in a year's time or in a billion year's time. You know what? God simply won't save you to begin with with all your delusions. It is logically necessary for God to keep us saved and willing after we are saved since that is the arrangement we wanted. You don't want this so God will send you to Hell to be eternally separated from Him and us as you wish.

Amen.

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Originally Posted by Buruc

It seems to me that you feel that you have the authority to speak in Gods place? or are you talking about those who reject God? This idea of restricting people from leaving their relationship with God seems to be logically inconsistent. because we are free creatures created in Gods image. i.e. being a being endowed with person hood and freedom of the will. God cannot make you choose one or the other.

Also reality also speaks against this issue, there are people who have experienced the holy spirit and have had a relationship with God yet they still reject God. (the kings in the old testament) but also people in our day and age.

the bible even clearly states Heb 6: 4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

those who have been saved (because they have enjoyed the fruits of the spirit) they cannot be saved if they fall away. that is by choice. because why would the bible even talk about this if it were impossible. anyway i think i've made my case Thank you for the enjoyable dialogue

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Yes, I am talking about you who rejects God, because God says "they shall never perish" and you say they will. God is not restricting a person from a relationship with God, but those who entered into a relationship with God want to be kept for eternity so God obliges. You prevent this option by God imposing your will on Him how He should do things in your selfish out-clause seeking to change the times and the ways. You are not the type of person God wants to spend eternity with. You are a like a guy who is always talking about divorce with his wife. What love is that?

The Holy Spirit woos people and is working everywhere omnipresent. Those people you considered saved were never saved to begin with as the Bible says, "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them" (2 Pet. 2.21). They may have come close to God, learned of His teachings, even claimed they believed in the blood for forgiveness, but in reality they were never born-again to begin with. Just like you.

Heb. 6 is simply saying a person can't be born-again again. Once-saved-always-saved. The "falling away" in verse 6 not saying a person can lose eternal life. Heb. 6 is not the same as 2 Pet. 2.21. Heb. 6 is talking about someone who has eternal life which can never be lost, whereas 2 Pet. is talking about a person who received lots of information, but still refused to be saved God's way. Watchman Nee has explained this best...

“Once” in verse 4 refers back to a historical fact. “Again” in verse 6 is the same word as the “again” in verse 1. The coordinate conjunction “and” in this section joins four things together; namely, once enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift, made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come. Hence what is said here is, that if a person already has experienced these four things it is impossible for him to be renewed again unto repentance if he falls away. For this person has only fallen—he has not forsaken the course he runs. Since his direction is still correct, how can he ever renew his repentance, crucify again the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame?

The writer of this letter told the Hebrews in verses 1-3 that they had no need of laying again the foundation. Some might retort: But what if a person fits the description in verses 4-6? Must he not lay the foundation again if he falls away? Should he not be renewed again to repentance? The answer of the writer was: Even though one may have the conditions of verses 4-6, that is to say, a situation in which he has really sinned, it is still impossible for him to be renewed to repentance [necessary for entering into new birth].

Can we be born again and then be unborn? Can we be renewed to repentance and be reborn? The repentance in verse 6 is the same repentance as in verse 1, so it is repentance as a foundation. This does not suggest that one should not repent again; it only affirms that no one could go back to the foundational position and renew himself to repentance. That, then, is the big difference. Take special note of the word “again”—renew again to repentance, laying again a foundation of repentance. Not again, because it is impossible.

Therefore, this passage does not instruct us that if a person falls after he has received so much spiritual benefits he must renew his original repentance and lay again the foundation. Regeneration happens only once. Who will start all over again if he merely falls on the way? Even so, many people entertain such a misconception as this.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/1Tim4.htm