Why is the church in ruin?

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12-23-2005, 10:46 PM
Churchwork

Why is the church in ruin?

Why does the church always seem in ruin?

The answer is simple - overassuming!

Men step where they do not belong. Instead of seeking the dividing of spirit, soul and body, emotion gets stirred inordinately to such a degree false tongues comes in and other antics.

The mind suffers mental gymnastics which creates errors, and overassuming types in the Scriptures.

People stop reading the Bible for their spirit, and do so many things in the name of God, it is hard to believe they are doing God's will.

And in the church itself, man overassumed how to fellowship, dividing by doctrines and men, even national boundaries or by independent congregations. I can hardly stand it.

What is this Laodicean overassuming "differing opinions" caused by?

Lack of humility; that is a fruit of the Spirit which flows from the Spirit applying the cross to our lives.

If I had to say the underlying of lack of humility is caused by people taking their eye of the cross.

Consequently, Biblical locality has been utterly forgotten by the church. And no one cares to do anything about it. None!

I wonder what God is going to do with church having forsaken Biblical locality?
01-07-2006, 01:19 AM
BellaRose1

Troy,
Do you believe people can speak in tongues, interpret tongues and prophecy etc...?
Do you believe that what happened in Acts still happens today?
01-07-2006, 01:29 AM
Churchwork

Yes, of course, but it is not what is commonly thought of as being gibberish babble of Pentecostals.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/FalseTongues.htm

15) Do you believe Pentecostals' tongues is not teaching Biblical tongues?
a) Do you believe this first wave movement of Pentecostals' tongues that began in the late 19th century is not a gift of the Holy Spirit?
b) Do you believe it is actually to confuse the the soul and spirit?
c) Do you believe it requires the alteration of the Word of God?
d) Do you believe it has the appearance of being harmless, supernatural or emotionally acceptable as it was designed for the tares and to deceive brothers and sisters in Christ?
e) Do you believe it is falsely claiming a language that is non-linguistic?
f) Do you believe it does not flow from a quickened spirit in its mediums of babble & psychic gibberish?
g) Do you believe that the interpreters of these false tongues are inconsistent in their psychic readings of gibberish babble?
h) Do you believe the teaching of repetitive mind drowning, which its users called pray-reading, is not of God?
i) Do you believe the shouting and screaming mantra is neither prayer nor reading?
j) Do you believe shouting mantra is violent?
k) Do you believe both of these practices (Pentecostals' false tongues and mind-droning) which create passivity, are used to control people by confusing emotion for spirit?
l) Do you believe Biblical tongues are "other languages"?
m) Do you humbly accept no other use of tongues is spoken of in the Scriptures than described in (l)?
n) Do you believe the tongue are known by the one speaking in tongues (otherwise, it becomes passivity), but the hearer may not understand the tongue spoken?
o) Do you believe tongues are a gift of languages to spread the Word of God to other nations of other languages?
o) Do you believe tongues are a supernatural gift from God to speak forth other languages?
p) Do you believe tongues are a sign to those that do not know those languages to show that those of other dialects can also receive salvation, praise and thank God in those tongues they know? (As for example, for the Jews, who observe believers of other languages of other nations praising God of the Bible)?
q) Do you believe false tongues of Pentecostalism was practiced in the second century under Montanism, and today, it has simply been given a new name?
01-07-2006, 12:36 PM
onfire4christ

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaRose1

Troy,
Do you believe people can speak in tongues, interpret tongues and prophecy etc...?
Do you believe that what happened in Acts still happens today?

Forgive me,
I'm not troy. But may I answer the question?

Yes, I not only believe,but I do speak in tongues as the Holy Ghost give the utterance. It's very real, and very powerful.

Why wouldn't what happens in Acts happen today? It was the building of the Church. Plus why would God give to them then,and not give to us now.

Remember he says himself that he is no respecter person

Quote:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Now, there are those who do just babble and are playing with the Holy Ghost. These people, i won't be for a million dollars. These are the ones that say they can speak in tonques when they chose to, or that they control the Holy Spirit to speak in tonques.....LIES!!!

You cannot control the Holy Ghost, He is a person, He get's angry, He grieves and he judges those who quench and suppress him. And he will take care of those who Lie to Him. Check out Annanias and Sapphira

Quote:

Acts 5:3-5 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? {to lie to: or, to deceive} Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

The Holy Ghost is very real. And I thank God everyday that I'm Saved, Sanctified and filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.
01-07-2006, 03:22 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire4christ

Forgive me,
I'm not troy. But may I answer the question?

That was ignorant to say you are not Troy.

Quote:

Yes, I not only believe,but I do speak in tongues as the Holy Ghost give the utterance. It's very real, and very powerful.

The Holy Spirit does not give utterance to speak gibberish babble. This is a heresy that began under montanism in the 2nd century to confuse emotion for spirit. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/montanism.htm

Quote:

Why wouldn't what happens in Acts happen today? It was the building of the Church. Plus why would God give to them then,and not give to us now.

What happened in Acts is happening today, why think otherwise? God gives now as was given then, why think otherwise?

Quote:

Now, there are those who do just babble and are playing with the Holy Ghost. These people, i won't be for a million dollars. These are the ones that say they can speak in tonques when they chose to, or that they control the Holy Spirit to speak in tonques.....LIES!!!

And there are those who alter the Word of God in their hearts saying tongues is gibberish babble, even though there are no actual cases of this in the Scriptures. What you do you do indepedently and not in agreement with the Word.

Quote:

You cannot control the Holy Ghost, He is a person, He get's angry, He grieves and he judges those who quench and suppress him. And he will take care of those who Lie to Him. Check out Annanias and Sapphira

Yes, He will.

Quote:

The Holy Ghost is very real. And I thank God everyday that I'm Saved, Sanctified and filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.

I pray and hope this is not referring to the false tongues of Pentecostalism that the evil spirit uses to deceive.
01-07-2006, 08:26 PM
bertie

I too have wondered about the gifts of the Holy spirit....
Speaking in tounges was ,on the day of pentacost,understood and recognized by various jews that were there at the time,from all over the known world.They actually recognized the languages spoken,and could uderstand what these apostles were saying.
However,there is another part of the bible which states that the Spirit,prays in such groanings,and utterances,that are not intelligable to human ears,but that God does understand.The only distinctiobn i can discern here is that these spirit prayers are not for other human ears and are spoken omly to god.As i see it these groanongs and utterances are for private pryer and comminion with God in the privacy of the prayer chamber,and not for display to the congrgation.Perhaps there is another interpretation that someone has come up with through the Spirits guidance.please dont be shy to chime in here.Speaking in tounges is considered the indication that one is filled with the Spirit at the spirit baptism of the convert.this usually takes place by the laying on of hands, and speaking in tounges after is a sign that the spirit baptism "took".This has been a rather stumbling point for me and i have yet to recieve the laying on of hands because i am rather dubious about the doctrine.(Besides what about those who dont then speak in tounges?Are they not then filled with the Holy Spirit?After all there are several gifts they could recieve and paul says not all will recieve all the gifts .....
the whole situation is fraught with implications that are not nessessarily scriptural.....as far as i can see......
01-07-2006, 08:42 PM
onfire4christ

Quote:

That was ignorant to say you are not Troy.

It's ignorant of me to ask if i may answer? How is that ignorant. Were I'm from that's called manners.

Quote:

The Holy Spirit does not give utterance to speak gibberish babble. This is a heresy that began under montanism in the 2nd century to confuse emotion for spirit.

I agree that a lot of people don't know the difference between emotion and the move of the Holy Spirit. That is usely because they have been taught incorrectly on Who the Holy Ghost is and what he does in our lives.
He not only speaks thru us to God. But He also, teaches, comforts, leads, and Praises God thru us.

Quote:

And there are those who alter the Word of God in their hearts saying tongues is gibberish babble, even though there are no actual cases of this in the Scriptures. What you do you do indepedently and not in agreement with the Word.

Okay, i'm trying to make sense here. Your right, there are people out there who are not filled with the Holy Ghost and are faking it. Then there are those who are genuinely filled with the Holy Ghost and speaks in tongues, Like myself, I speak when the Holy Ghost speaks, not on my command, but when he wants to. I have been blessed with the gift of tongues, which is interpreted. These are true and absolute gifts of the Spirit.
Speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance is Biblical and is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Ghost in someones life.

Are we on the same page here, or am I just not understanding what your saying?

Quote:

I pray and hope this is not referring to the false tongues of Pentecostalism that the evil spirit uses to deceive.

As i stated earlier, The Spirit speak thru me as the Spirit gives utterance. Not when I want to It's not about me, it's about Him, Christ our Savior and God the Father with the Comfortor the Holy Ghost.

I am Pentecostal, but not all Pentecostals are the same.
01-07-2006, 09:03 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire4christ

It's ignorant of me to ask if i may answer? How is that ignorant. Were I'm from that's called manners.

It is not manners to say to forgive you for not being somebody else, when it is obvious you are not someone else. Therefore, you speak with a curdle in your tongue.

Quote:

I agree that a lot of people don't know the difference between emotion and the move of the Holy Spirit. That is usely because they have been taught incorrectly on Who the Holy Ghost is and what he does in our lives.
He not only speaks thru us to God. But He also, teaches, comforts, leads, and Praises God thru us.

I did not say the difference between emotion and the move of the Holy Spirit. I said the difference between emotion and the man's spirit wherein the Holy Spirit indwells. The Holy Spirit is God who speaks to us in our spirit Whom we commune with in our spirit in praying to God the Father.

Quote:

Okay, i'm trying to make sense here. Your right, there are people out there who are not filled with the Holy Ghost and are faking it. Then there are those who are genuinely filled with the Holy Ghost and speaks in tongues, Like myself, I speak when the Holy Ghost speaks, not on my command, but when he wants to. I have been blessed with the gift of tongues, which is interpreted. These are true and absolute gifts of the Spirit. Speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance is Biblical and is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Ghost in someones life. Are we on the same page here, or am I just not understanding what your saying?

"Filled with the Holy Ghost," will show forth gifts according to God's good pleasure, one of them which may be the gift of tongues, for not everyone has the gift to speak different languages, yet many are filled with the Holy Spirit. Speaking in your language what is given by the Holy Spirit is not a gift of tongues, but speaking in other languages is. The Holy Spirit does not give utterance to speak gibberish babble of today's Pentecostalism, a throwback of Montanism. Any interpretation from interpreters of Pentecotals today, will generate a different interpretation each time showing you that false tongues is what you have. What you speak forth is evidence of the evil spirit. I pray and hope that you repent.

Quote:

As i stated earlier, The Spirit speak thru me as the Spirit gives utterance. Not when I want to It's not about me, it's about Him, Christ our Savior and God the Father with the Comfortor the Holy Ghost. I am Pentecostal, but not all Pentecostals are the same.

You are Pentecostal and possessed by the demon of false tongues. You have replaced overcoming in Christ with the passivity of false tongues and having no faith to believe God can give eternal life that is eternal at new birth.
01-07-2006, 09:19 PM
onfire4christ

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertie

I too have wondered about the gifts of the Holy spirit....
Speaking in tounges was ,on the day of pentacost,understood and recognized by various jews that were there at the time,from all over the known world.They actually recognized the languages spoken,and could uderstand what these apostles were saying.

You are absolutely right:

Quote:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Here it is with other tongues...

Quote:

Acts 2:5-11 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. {was...: Gr. voice was made confounded: or, troubled in mind} And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

And because of this 3000 more people Got filled with the Holy Ghost.

Quote:

However,there is another part of the bible which states that the Spirit,prays in such groanings,and utterances,that are not intelligable to human ears,but that God does understand.The only distinctiobn i can discern here is that these spirit prayers are not for other human ears and are spoken omly to god.As i see it these groanongs and utterances are for private pryer and comminion with God in the privacy of the prayer chamber,and not for display to the congrgation.

We are told at times to go to a prayer closet and just you and God get in touch with each other and you may speak in tongues then, then again you may not. It's when He wants to speak, cause then he is praising God and telling God what you need. It is a direct line to God.
But it is not always in private, it can be in a congregation, When that happens it is at times for the edification of the church, you or for someone else in the congregation. If it was interpreted or not.

Quote:

Perhaps there is another interpretation that someone has come up with through the Spirits guidance.please dont be shy to chime in here.Speaking in tounges is considered the indication that one is filled with the Spirit at the spirit baptism of the convert.

Amen

Quote:

this usually takes place by the laying on of hands, and speaking in tounges after is a sign that the spirit baptism "took".This has been a rather stumbling point for me and i have yet to recieve the laying on of hands because i am rather dubious about the doctrine.(Besides what about those who dont then speak in tounges?Are they not then filled with the Holy Spirit?After all there are several gifts they could recieve and paul says not all will recieve all the gifts .....
the whole situation is fraught with implications that are not nessessarily scriptural.....as far as i can see......

First don't let it be a stumblingblock.....The day of pentecost, there was no laying on of Hands when they recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Paul, He had no laying on of the Hands when He recieved the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Heres' a real cool one. John the Baptist was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost before He was even Born, other than Christ he was the only other person born without sin. You do not have to have the laying on of Hands to recieve it. Yes, you can recieve it that way, and many people do. I pray for people seeking the Holy Ghost and I lay my hands on them, then again, I 've seen people recieve the Holy Ghost and have not one digit touch them.
It's not about us, bertie, It's not what we can do or say. It's not something that we can control. It's all God and we must trust him and believe in him. Not saying you don't..But don't let that be a stumbling block. Next time you get before God and start seeking the Holy Ghost, don't worry about who's laying hands on you, Think about God laying his hand on you and it will light up your life.
01-07-2006, 09:20 PM
Ruah Brit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy

Why does the church always seem in ruin?

The answer is simple - overassuming!

Men step where they do not belong. Instead of seeking the dividing of spirit, soul and body, emotion gets stirred inordinately to such a degree false tongues comes in and other antics.

The mind suffers mental gymnastics which creates errors, and overassuming types in the Scriptures.

People stop reading the Bible for their spirit, and do so many things in the name of God, it is hard to believe they are doing God's will.

And in the church itself, man overassumed how to fellowship, dividing by doctrines and men, even national boundaries or by independent congregations. I can hardly stand it.

What is this Laodicean overassuming "differing opinions" caused by?

Lack of humility; that is a fruit of the Spirit which flows from the Spirit applying the cross to our lives.

If I had to say the underlying of lack of humility is caused by people taking their eye of the cross.

Consequently, Biblical locality has been utterly forgotten by the church. And no one cares to do anything about it. None!

I wonder what God is going to do with church having forsaken Biblical locality?

In the majority of Christ's teachings he teaches complete rejection of your lives in order to enter into His life. He teaches a level of worthyness to be called His deciple or to be called a follower. This is where the majority of "Christians" are going to be in trouble here very soon when the Lord sends His two prophets to shut down the world. I would Cut and past the scriptures but this forum doesn't show the post option when I right click.

Ruah Brit
01-07-2006, 09:27 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruah Brit

In the majority of Christ's teachings he teaches complete rejection of your lives in order to enter into His life. He teaches a level of worthyness to be called His deciple or to be called a follower. This is where the majority of "Christians" are going to be in trouble here very soon when the Lord sends His two prophets to shut down the world. I would Cut and past the scriptures but this forum doesn't show the post option when I right click.

Ruah Brit

Sure the right click and paste is avaliable and does work. What you are experiencing, rather, is in using the Enhanced Editor it does not let you right click to then COPY, unless you use "Edit" at the top of your browser. If you want to use the right click to copy, come out of the Enhanced Editor and click on the A/A at the top right of this posting box. Then try it again.
01-07-2006, 10:42 PM
bertie

i wonder what you mean by taking their eye from the cross.
lots of people talk about the cross this and the cross that.I havent a clue what they are getting at.what are yoiu trying to say in straight up english.Otherwise it becomes exclusive...what about us poor idiots who are just trying to follow Jesus,we are all out here staring at a blank screen with eyes watering to hear some truth.And you say we took our eyes off the cross.????Its handy to say something ebnigmatic and lleave it at that.Then nobody wants to take the chance to say hey look the emperor has no clothes. But hey look!the cross the cross! you make me so mad.
That is the worst possible answer.clarify.....please....Could the Holy Church of Jesus be in ruins because of idolatry,false doctrines,greed,avarice, lust for power,money,fame,the compromise of the gospel for the survival of the fattest?
The people dont want mumbo jumbo,they know what it is....they want the real thing.They want to connect with God on a real and undeniable level.They are dying with thirst for the Holy Spirits indwelling presence.They want somebody to come out with the truth.They want to feel the power of the Holy Spirit moving in their personal lives.They want to know without a doubt that they really are doing Gods will.They need to be taught that the spirit can touch their inmost being.that he wants to lift them above what they know they can be.There is lots of enigmatic touchy feely new age falsehood being perveyed as gods infallible will.None of it involves much sacrifice on the part of the individual.
The apostles could and did speak from gnosis.meaning that not only did they speak from knowledge of these things,but that knowledge made up the essential core of who and what they were.In effect the knowledge was them.
Till i find in this world a person of such unimpachable authority,im afraid i am stuck with my bible,and my will to god.
01-07-2006, 11:25 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertie

i wonder what you mean by taking their eye from the cross.
lots of people talk about the cross this and the cross that.I havent a clue what they are getting at.what are yoiu trying to say in straight up english.Otherwise it becomes exclusive...what about us poor idiots who are just trying to follow Jesus,we are all out here staring at a blank screen with eyes watering to hear some truth.And you say we took our eyes off the cross.????Its handy to say something ebnigmatic and lleave it at that.Then nobody wants to take the chance to say hey look the emperor has no clothes. But hey look!the cross the cross! you make me so mad.
That is the worst possible answer.clarify.....please....Could the Holy Church of Jesus be in ruins because of idolatry,false doctrines,greed,avarice, lust for power,money,fame,the compromise of the gospel for the survival of the fattest?

Your anger is your flesh rising up waring against the Spirit.

Taking one's eye off the cross is the problem, that is the cross of Jesus Christ; you know, where Jesus died for forgiveness of sins and brought us to death with Him to give us power over sin. God also gives us crosses to bear and burdens.

Though there is substitution (even the acceptance of forgiveness is lacking in many brothers and sisters), there is lacking in co-death, and so what manifests are various carelessnesses and false teachings such as dividing the body of Christ falsely according to doctrines, people, nations in denominations, or other various false false teachings such as calvinism; today's Pentecotalism; having no faith to believe in the 66 books as being God's complete Word; denying hell is an eternal separation from God and non-annihilation; not believing God's Word about baptism of water and the Holy Spirit to come out of the world; and those who claim man's soul is his spirit. The list is longer than this, but these are some things to note along with sinful or self-involved behavior which are not fruit of the Spirit. Can you keep the conduct of Matthew 5-7 for instance?

Quote:

The people dont want mumbo jumbo,they know what it is....they want the real thing.They want to connect with God on a real and undeniable level.They are dying with thirst for the Holy Spirits indwelling presence.They want somebody to come out with the truth.They want to feel the power of the Holy Spirit moving in their personal lives.They want to know without a doubt that they really are doing Gods will.They need to be taught that the spirit can touch their inmost being.that he wants to lift them above what they know they can be.There is lots of enigmatic touchy feely new age falsehood being perveyed as gods infallible will.None of it involves much sacrifice on the part of the individual.

People don't want what you say. O sure they may say they do, but the reality is they do not. They love the world too much. They are not sojourners. It is like asking your barber to give you a decent hair cut with no cuts, all the while you are treating him unkindly as he is doing his work. It is the same towards God. When you are selfish, not walking after the spirit, this hurts God, so do not expect you are asking for a pure relationship with God when you behave this way. How could grace ever enter under such circumstance?

Also you said the "spirit can touch their inmost being". Don't you know the spirit is the inmost being? Our soul is our outerman while our spirit is our innerman. Building your relationship with God takes sacrifice, for not until you do this, will God grace you with the fruit of the spirit and strengthen your spirit to commune with Him in a deeper way, and to do His will. You would be confusing your spirit with your emotion if these words of truth are misconstrued as attempting to affect your emotion. It is not the case at all.

Quote:

The apostles could and did speak from gnosis.meaning that not only did they speak from knowledge of these things,but that knowledge made up the essential core of who and what they were.In effect the knowledge was them. Till i find in this world a person of such unimpachable authority,im afraid i am stuck with my bible,and my will to god.

There are two kinds of knowledge. The knowledge of the soul and the knowledge acquired in the spirit. The former is of no use and vanity if it is not commensurate with spiritual knowledge.

You will do what you will. I do not ask you to follow me, but seek the truth, the truth of which the forum is founded; that is, bringing 12 informal apostles together in agreement to build the body of Christ according to Biblical locality where the apostles appoint elders to take care of whole localities. If this truth is not for you then you are at a loss. If you feel the need to judge falsely, then again, it is your loss. No one is forcing you to have the love of the Lord in your life and accepting His way founded on the apostles and the prophets.
01-11-2006, 03:56 PM
onfire4christ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy

It is not manners to say to forgive you for not being somebody else, when it is obvious you are not someone else. Therefore, you speak with a curdle in your tongue.

Obviously I struck a chord, forgive me.

Quote:

I did not say the difference between emotion and the move of the Holy Spirit. I said the difference between emotion and the man's spirit wherein the Holy Spirit indwells. The Holy Spirit is God who speaks to us in our spirit Whom we commune with in our spirit in praying to God the Father.

Correct.

Quote:

"Filled with the Holy Ghost," will show forth gifts according to God's good pleasure, one of them which may be the gift of tongues, for not everyone has the gift to speak different languages, yet many are filled with the Holy Spirit.

Correct again.

Quote:

Speaking in your language what is given by the Holy Spirit is not a gift of tongues, but speaking in other languages is.

1st, I never said, my own language. Speaking in Tongues is Godly and is also biblical.
Now, before you get confused some more. There are differences in tongues.
1. The gift of other Tongues is what the apostles recieved on the day of pentecost. That means they could speak in other languages of their own.

Quote:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

2. Speaking in tongues, is for the glorifing of God.

Quote:

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

3. Speaking in tongues is also with prophesying.

Quote:

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

4. Some people are given the gift of working of miracles, others prophecy, others of discerning of spirits, others divers (or different )kinds of tongues (speaking another language..i.e. english spking hebrew, or vice versa)
Then the interpretation of tongues.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

[quote]

5. Some again, speak in tongues of men (other languages) and some speak in tongues of Angels (the Heavenly language). But the most important is Love. Do you have that Troy?

Quote:

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

6. It's better that we don't speak in tongues as long as we prophesy, some people don't even have the gift. But if we do speak in tongues let it be interpreted for the edification of the church.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

And if you notice here it seperates prophesieth from speaking in tongues. Some people prophesy without ever speaking in tongues.

7. Paul thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than others....So i guess he was full of the Devil also.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

I have agreed with you on the count that there are a lot of people out there right now, that are playing with fire and are faking the tongues. I know there are people out there who think they can run and tell the Holy Ghost just what to do. That's blaspheme and heresy. You cannot tell the Holy Ghost what to do, you cannot turn on or shut off the Holy Ghost when you feel the need to do so. That's a flat lie from Hell.

So this quote you so blantly lay at my feet and attack me with. Show me the scripture! Remember this and always remember. Start with the Bible, End with the Bible.

I'm praying for you Troy, God Bless and may you have a great time with the Lord.

Quote:

The Holy Spirit does not give utterance to speak gibberish babble of today's Pentecostalism, a throwback of Montanism. Any interpretation from interpreters of Pentecotals today, will generate a different interpretation each time showing you that false tongues is what you have. What you speak forth is evidence of the evil spirit. I pray and hope that you repent.

I love you to bro. , Thanks, they said the same to Jesus that He healed the sick because he was of the Devil. I say the same thing. If I were filled with the Devil, Don't you think I 'd attack you as you have attacked me? No. Because I am filled with Christ, dead to this ol world and living with The Lord in my life. Am I perfect? no.

I won't attack you, I'll pray for you that you will take control of your hatred for the Pentecostal. Love ya.

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You are Pentecostal and possessed by the demon of false tongues. You have replaced overcoming in Christ with the passivity of false tongues and having no faith to believe God can give eternal life that is eternal at new birth.

Again, you attack me. Love ya. Again, you are mistaken. I am Saved, Sanctified, and filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire. I lean on, trust and surrender my All to my Savior and Friend Jesus Christ. I listen to and am Comforted by the Holy Spirit and I am forgiven and given mercy by my Father in Heaven. You couldn't measure the Faith I have in My Father, the son and The Holy Ghost.

Again, Love ya. PRayin for ya.

God Bless
01-11-2006, 05:16 PM
Churchwork

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Originally Posted by onfire4christ

Obviously I struck a chord, forgive me.

No. You made a mistake, and I simply corrected you. Don't blame me for helping you with your possession.

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1st, I never said, my own language. Speaking in Tongues is Godly and is also biblical. Now, before you get confused some more. There are differences in tongues.

You are confused. Let me show you how. Read on...

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5. Some again, speak in tongues of men (other languages) and some speak in tongues of Angels (the Heavenly language). But the most important is Love. Do you have that Troy?

Here begins your confusion. You are confused in what tongues of angels means. If you have love Onfire, you will accept the truth when it is given to you, won't you?

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7. Paul thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than others....So i guess he was full of the Devil also.

Paul could speak different languages; this was his gifting of tongues. Why does that make him the devil?

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I have agreed with you on the count that there are a lot of people out there right now, that are playing with fire and are faking the tongues.

Anyone who treats tongues as gibberish babble as do you, is faking it and playing with fire unwittingly or otherwise.

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So this quote you so blantly lay at my feet and attack me with. Show me the scripture! Remember this and always remember. Start with the Bible, End with the Bible.

No. You produced this verse. I had not brought up this verse, 1 Cor. 14.18. You seem confused. Start with the Bible. In the Bible there is not tongues considered to be gibberish babble.

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If I were filled with the Devil, Don't you think I 'd attack you as you have attacked me? No. Because I am filled with Christ

False tongues does not fill you with Christ.

You do attack: "you so blantly" and "Paul thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than others....So i guess he was full of the Devil also" and "take control of your hatred for the Pentecostal". Your attacks and saying you don't attack is your being doubletongued. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8). Plus you attack with deception too. I did not blatantly lay the verse you said I did, for you brought the verse up, not me. You should not sin bearing false witness. Your other deception was to claim Paul is going to hell because he spoke different languages. How strange an accusation! I love you and I know you are letting evil spirits take hold in your mind through gibberish babble. I tell you this because I would wish you not be deceived.

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I won't attack you, I'll pray for you that you will take control of your hatred for the Pentecostal. Love ya.

If you loved me you would not try to teach false tongues and defend this false teaching of montanism. I know that when someone sees this lack of love in you, you need to think they hate you or your system. This is common cultic reaction. Don't let the devil plant such thoughts in your mind. Know that you harbor the false teaching of gibberish babble in which you will need to repent and seek deliverence. I will pray for you.

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Again, you attack me. Love ya. Again, you are mistaken. I am Saved, Sanctified, and filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire. I lean on, trust and surrender my All to my Savior and Friend Jesus Christ. I listen to and am Comforted by the Holy Spirit and I am forgiven and given mercy by my Father in Heaven. You couldn't measure the Faith I have in My Father, the son and The Holy Ghost.

Yet you harbor a false fruit not of God which is gibberish babble, false tongues. Christians can be deceived and the evil spirits can gain strongholds in their minds. It is either that or you are an unregenerate tare, that may look like the wheat, but nonetheless the tare which Christ will put His sickle to and separate you from His own.