Why is Aleksandar the Non-OSASer Going to Hell?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aleksandar

That what is said in John 17:3 means that eternal life is to know true God. But how to know true God? Is faith alone enough? No. Works of faith (not works of human fallen nature) are necessary too:

“¹⁴ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?” (James 2:14)

“²⁴ Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24) Is this what I cited word of God or not? Word of God, of course.

Look at other verses in my last post and many other in The Holy Scripture.
Let The Lord Jesus Christ drive away from you all devils who attack your soul!

Aleksandar

---

To "know" God for initial salvation that can never be lost is by being born-again wherein one's spirit is quickened and where regeneration takes place (given eternal life an ability to know God and future blessings). You can't be born-again AGAIN! How absurd! God is no fool; He does not give multiple eternal lifes, nor does He give eternal life to someone that it could be lost. He simply doesn't give it to you to begin with even though you could be delusional in thinking you have it. When He gives eternal life it is once and forever. To think otherwise is salvation by works. Everyone of His elect receive eternal life when they are born-again. The non-elect never receive it, not now, not ever.

You're confusing initial salvation with a deeper knowing of God that follows through a daily relationship with God and works as well. You can't know God initially unless you are born-again, given eternal life. God only gives eternal life once, not lost then given again then lost then given yet again. What a strange salvation that would be the one you have. Works follow the new birth. A work that is not God's will even though one is saved is thrown out. But a work that is in God's will is rewarded. One is justified by faith for initial salvation. One is justified by works after one is saved unto rewards. Do you see how you misunderstand James 2.14,24? Those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Your treatment of these verses in James conflict with what John 10.28 says; whereas I have no such conflict. Since you admit you can yet perish in your faith, it shows you were never saved; therefore, you are going to Hell as you wish and that's easy to see.

Presently, you are not born-again, that is, you still have the evil spirit in your innerman so you are going to Hell. The Holy Spirit has not come into your spirit. If you want to receive eternal life, you must give your life to the God who keeps, humbly accepting you can't keep yourself saved nor lose salvation, since that is salvation by works, lest anyone should boast. How Satan has got a hold of you think you are saved when you are not! His counterfeit salvation has succeeded in you because you exalt yourself in your own strength against an infinitely great God. You're in popular company though since the whole Roman Church, Eastern Orthodox, Weslyans, so many denominations and popular speakers like William Lane Craig are going to Hell with you for the exact same reason. You guys say a person can lose salvation; God of the Bible says it is impossible for those who are born-again. My prayer though is one day you give your life to Christ.

Not much of a "little flock" (Luke 12.32). You're part of a great system of religious Rome: a mustard seed that grew into a great tree with branches that birds like demons land on, for which the New City is not big enough to hold (only 1379 x 1379 miles). Non-OSASers are going to Hell. The little flock are the OSAS Arminians. There are so few of us. My prayers go out to you for know not what you do.

John 10:28 says:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.", but its precedent verse says:
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" So, only if we hear His voice, if we follow Him, no man will pluck us out of His hand. How do Christians follow Him? Here is how:
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."(John 15:10)
"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." (John 15:12)

Here are some other verses which speak about the same matter.

Matthew 7

¹⁸ A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

¹⁹ Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
²⁰ Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

²¹ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Hebrews 3

¹² Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

¹³ But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
¹⁴ For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

And many other verses (read the Bible...).
Let God be your guide!

How is someone following Christ? By repenting and believing in Him firstly to be regenerated (born-again). They have eternal life right now as do I. "No one shall snatch them out of my hand" (John 10.28). Without this nobody can follow the Lord truly to overcometh unto rewards. They have kept His commandments of the gospel of salvation by receiving what Jesus did on the cross. True love, loving one another, is to share the gospel. Unless you confess the Lord Jesus before others who He is, He will deny you before the Father in heaven. To abide in that love suggests that a Christian though he can't lose eternal life can falter so Jesus says to love one another as He has loved His own. Allow for the Scriptures to speak of Christians who falter, but not all the way. How shallow the Scriptures would be otherwise.

Realize you are not saved, so you are going to Hell, because you don't have eternal life right now. Some think eternal life is only in the future handed down to those who eventually worked hard enough for their salvation (common theme among all other religions except for Christianity). Others think eternal life, indeed, is something you can have now by being born-again, but that you can lose it tomorrow. How strange a salvation that would be to receive eternal life, lose it tomorrow, get born-again again, and on and on. You make a mockery of God. In His infinite foreknowledge He knows whom to give His life to and they are kept. Eternal life is not just future blessings but an ability to have a personal relationship with God's Son now: "know thee the only true God" (John 17.3).

How have you misread Matthew 7? What is the kingdom of heaven here? It is the reward of reigning over the nations for 1000 years. So many Christians though saved and have eternal life will lose this reward and not return with Christ to reign over the nations for 1000 years (Jude 14,15). They say Lord, Lord, but the Lord does not know them intimately, thus they do not get the reward of reigning during the time of recompense; but these fleshly Christians are cast into outer darkness, outside of the light of reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years.

Notice in each instance of "outer darkness" in Scripture it is never has about it a furnace of judgment of fire and burning as is the case with Hell. Outer darkness is like being in the woods late at night and observing a beautifully lit cabin representing the millennial kingdom, but those in outer darkness are not allowed to enter and must wait for the occupants to exit to enter the New City and New Earth together at the end of the millennial kingdom. Outer darkness is also like when a painter is painting a house but is sloppy with the paint and gets it all over his body. Instead of being allowed to enter the shower after he is done, he must take off the paint with gasoline which stings. He is among the 5 unwise virgins though saved do not get to enter the marriage feast of the millennial kingdom. Consider this consequences for Christians. But you are not even a Christian.

How have you misread Hebrews 3? In this chapter, God is referring to the hardened hearts of Israel: "don't harden your hearts as Israel did when they rebelled, when they tested me in the wilderness" (v.8). This is speaking to the nation of Israel as a whole, not to individual salvation to receive a new spirit of eternal life. Where in "if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end" (v.13) suggests rather than losing eternal life or not receiving eternal life, what is given up is the reward to reign over the nations for 1000 years?

Where you see Hell as the verdict for many Christians, I see consequences, loss of rewards, discipline, sorrow, regret (gnashing of teeth) for carnal Christians.

Since you have refused to give your life to the God who keeps, humbly accepting no works can get you saved or keep you saved or cause you to lose salvation, realize you worship a false Christ. Since you boast in you works to keep you saved and the Bible says no man is saved by their works lest anyone should boast, obviously you are not a Christian. Therefore, you are going to spend eternity in Hell. You're a bad guy. Not much of what I say will convince you, because we both know you have clearly decided what you want and whom you worship. But let the reader decide which Jesus to give their lives to. You side along with a great tree of religious Rome and its many branches, the Roman Church, Eastern Orthodox and so many other denominations making up the vast majority of Christendom, whereas I am a member of the "little flock" (Luke 12.32) of OSAS Arminians.

So few believe what I do, but I recall Elijah being told by God there were 6000 others. Comparing populations today out of 7 billion on the planet, if there is only 1% of 1% saved, there are 7 million other OSAS Arminians on the planet. If as many as 1% are saved that's 70,000,000 alive today who are saved. In either case, certainly a little flock compared to your works based salvation. Let us not self-exalt ourselves against an infinitely great God thinking our works can bridge the gap. Pride begets the fall. A sinner can do nothing but prostrate Himself before God for God to give him His life; only then does God keep His elect. As you can see you never truly repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated, for if you had, you would know you could never lose eternal life and being born-again. Just as one can only be born physically once, one can only be born-again once. You can't be born-again again. You and William Lane Craig are going to Hell.

Praise the Lord! Amen.

When someone is once born from above (baptized in regular way) he needn't to be baptized again when he makes a sin, but he need to repent:

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:5-10)

“And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” (Mat 6:12)
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Mat 6:14-15)

That what I mentioned in Mat. 7 is not about outer darkness, about millennial kingdom. It is about Hell for those who trespass because “cast into the fire” is clearly mentioned. And in verse 22 and 23:

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Similarly about Hebrews 3.

Look at this too:

"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth." (John 3:18)
"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." (Gal. 5:6)

May God enlight you!

You quote lots of Scripture even the same verses over and over yet say little because you are afraid to say what you believe plainly. That is not being an open book for the Lord. Even so, I understand what you are trying to say, and this is why you are wrong (at least try to understand it's very dangerous to read Scripture with a false spirit in you for a strange interpretation)...

I am not arguing for re-baptism but you would be after you claim a person loses salvation then think he must get saved again with a subsequent baptism. Why misunderstand what I said? Baptism does not save. Baptism is something one does after being saved to come out of the world. 1 John 1 is speaking to Christians. Since you are not a Christian this does not apply to you. All the sins of the saved are under the covering of the blood so if a believer sins, all he need do is repent and God will forgive. Speaking to Christians, if a Christian doesn't forgive others, this sin will stay with him and be disciplined for it until he finally comes around to seeing it God's way. He does not lose salvation and being born-again. He simply loses rewards. Works follow the new life, being a new creation, so naturally we are heeded to do so with consequences.

Nowhere in Matthew 7.22,23 do we find Hell spoken of in any way so these passages are speaking to Christians who are being carnal and thus, shall receive their discipline. Same goes for Hebrews 3. True love accepts the gospel of salvation and grows in that faith. If a Christian falters, there are consequences, since it is not good to remain long a babe in Christ.

Let the Holy Spirit guide you through a correct and deeper study of Matthew 7 for the conditions for entering the kingdom of heaven, that is the reigning in the millennial kingdom (7.21-23).

v.21 This verse tells us positively that in calling Jesus Christ as Lord we shall enter the kingdom of heaven, though not everyone who so calls will enter in. The emphasis is laid on the words, "not every one"—"If thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord," says Paul in Romans 10.9, "thou shalt be saved"; thus indicating that the first condition for entering the kingdom of heaven is being saved. However, not everyone who is saved enters the kingdom automatically; for not all Christians have part in the kingdom. There is a second condition; namely, that "he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven" shall enter in.

Consequently, the general conditions for entering the kingdom of heaven are (1) a being saved, and (2) doing the will of God.

7.21 lays down the general conditions for entering the kingdom of heaven. 7.22 illustrates the special exclusion from the kingdom. And 7.23 tells of the special consequence thereof for such people.

The word "knew" in verse 23 is the past tense for the same Greek word translated "know" in Romans 7.15. In the original it means to recognize or to understand. "I never knew you" may therefore be translated as "I never recognized you"—which means "I never recognized what you did as right."

Now the people in question here are definitely Christians, for the following reasons:

(1) The context in which these words of Jesus are found is the so-called Sermon on the Mount, which, as we have continually seen, is primarily spoken to believers.
(2) The teaching of the mount from beginning to end never instructs us as to how we can be saved since it is obviously addressed to those who are already saved.
(3) This small section from verse 21 to verse 23 does not deal with the question of faith; rather, it treats of the matter of conduct. We know we are saved through faith and not by work. Hence what is said here has nothing do with eternal perdition of the unsaved.
(4) "In that day" (v.22)—What day is "that day"? These words refer to the day of judgment at the judgment-seat of Christ before which the saved alone will appear. This is not the judgment to the Great White Throne.
(5) The people in question here have called on the name of the Lord; therefore they are the Lord’s.
(6) Notice the works they perform: they prophesy by the name of the Lord, and by the same Name they cast out demons and do many mighty works.
"That day" is a specific term in the Bible. As today is the day of man (see 1 Cor. 4.3: "or of man’s judgment" which in the original is "of man’s day") when man judges, so "that day" is the day of the judgment-seat of Christ when all the saved—and no one but the saved—shall be judged (see 2 Tim. 1.12,18; 4.8).

v.22 "Many" shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. "Lord, Lord . . ."—They call on His name once again.

"Prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works"—All these are considered to be great gifts in the church: to prophesy is to do the work of a prophet; to cast out demons is to bring in the kingdom of heaven; and to do mighty works is to exercise the power of the age to come. Those who perform such acts specifically cite these things because they think by these things they are most qualified to enter the kingdom.

v.23 The word "confess" in Matthew 10.32-33 points to the saved ones. If we do not confess the Lord before men now we will be denied the glory of the kingdom of heaven. Similarly, the passage here rendered as "then will I profess unto them, I never knew you" is better to be translated as "I never recognized or approved of you"; and the reason for His disapproval is given in the words "ye that work iniquity"—wherein "iniquity" in Greek actually means "lawlessness" and means not working according to the rules of the kingdom of heaven.

"Depart from me" simply denotes that they have no part in the glory, a glory which is very different from what is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 1.9.

Hence the general conditions for entering the kingdom of heaven are a being saved plus doing the will of God.

The Holy Spirit who dwells in man is the Person of the Holy Spirit, and therefore He is there to rule over man. But the Holy Spirit that falls upon man is without personality, and hence it obeys man: "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Cor. 14.32). The Holy Spirit dwells only in the saved ones, but His power may fall upon the unsaved such as Balaam.

It is possible for a Christian to be lawless even in prophesying, in casting out demons, and in doing mighty works. There is the danger of not doing the will of God in all these things. We need to ask the Lord to deliver us from the iniquity of the sanctuary (see Num. 18.1). Let us realize that in the last days these same things shall be greatly increased.

I don't consider you among even the lawless Christians, for you are not even born-again. You believe in salvation by works of your own strength. Can you be more arrogant?

God won't enlighten you as long as you continue to worship a false Christ. You must set aside this false Christ of the Roman Church to search God out with all your heart and soul, only then shall you find Him whom I have been showing you.

I pray for the Lord to show you that you leave no room for a Christian to backslide for the minute he does even one iota you come around and claim he is not saved due to his works. Do you really want to keep believing this obtuse idea?

Churchwork, I have a simple question. Do you agree that if someone kills himself because of despair, he will go to the Hell though he received regularly baptism, i.e. was born again?

Baptism is not being born-again. A fake baptism is not true baptism. The baptism you entered into is the baptism of the evil spirit. Baptism is something one does after being saved in their own time once ready to come out of the world. And it is also for service to let others know you are a member of the body of Christ. Baptism of a child is baptism of the evil spirit even though it is sugar coated as being something holy.

There is not a single person who ever lived who committed suicide who was born-again. The surest way to Hell is suicide. The Holy Spirit prevents all believers from committing suicide. Though you may commit suicide one day for your false faith, Christians would never do so for just as God keeps His elect, He protects them from suicide, murder, rape and other heinous sins. Every day in China 500 women commit suicide. We can safely say not one of them is or ever were Christians.

May I say in all sincerity, because you are not born-again, you have a warped sense of reality. Naturally you ask twisted questions that misrepresent God's design. This is Satan's forte.

I didn’t speak about fake baptism. As all readers can see in my last post I have mentioned “…though he received regularly baptism…”. Please, don’t twist my words again and again. And you always speak that I’m not born-again or that I’m in Roman church though I nowhere said that I’m born-again or not and that I’m in Roman church or not. Don’t speak untruth. Also, you say “Though you may commit suicide one day for your false faith…”. I will never commit suicide because, as you say as well: “The surest way to Hell is suicide”. I have true faith and why I mentioned suicide is because it is the best example that OSAS theory is not true. Here are some other proves:

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.” (2 Pet. 2:20-22)

“When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation” (Mat 12:43-45)

When a man is born-again devil is out of him. But when the man come back to lawlessness, seven worse devils come with the first devil to the man. Since devils will not live in millennium kingdom, that means that man will go to the Hell if doesn't repent on time.

"28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb. 10:28-31)


I sincerely wish you to accept truth.

“So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32)

What you call regular baptism is a fake baptism since you claim it is a baptism that saves, i.e. you called it being "born-again". Nowhere in the Bible does baptism save. Baptism doesn't save a person. Rather a person who is baptized dies to the world and brings him out of the world after being born-again. Accept that you are going to Hell because you admit you are not born-again. You said, "you always speak that I’m not born-again...though I nowhere said that I’m born-again or not." "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 10.32). Since you are unwilling to confess that you are born-again, you are not born-again. If you don't know if you are born-again then obviously you are not born-again, and you are going to Hell. You have no ability to have a relationship with Jesus since you don't have eternal life.

You bring up suicide. While you can commit suicide which is the surest way to Hell, Christians can never commit suicide because we are once-saved-always-saved so God would always prevent us from doing so. This shows your non-OSAS theory false. It simply shows you were never born-again since you could still commit suicide one day. Whereas Christians can not.

You've misread 2 Pet. 2.20-22. This passage is about those who come close to the door of salvation but refuse to enter in (they were never born-again): "It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command" (v.21). It's like me giving you a wonderful gift but you rejected it; now you are farther away from that gift than ever before since so much grace has been given to you.

The Condition of the Unrepentant, Matthew 12.43-45

The demon-possessed man here signifies the Jews, for from the words "even so shall it be also unto this evil generation" (12.45), we may infer that this is spoken of the Jews.

This episode of the unclean spirit may be viewed in two different ways:

(1) According to the First Epistle to the Corinthians, demons are closely related to idols. For their sin of idol worship the children of Israel were taken into Babylonian captivity. It was there that they were cured of such idolatry. After they returned from captivity, the sect of the Pharisees seemed to prevail. Paul at first also belonged to this sect. Religiously they are viewed as the strictest group, yet they are empty spiritually. Hence the Jews are not much different from their previous state. The Jews reject the Lord when He comes, and thus their latter state becomes worse than before.

(2) Looking from the perspective of the possessed one, whenever the Lord sees a demon He casts it out. So during the days the Lord was on earth, the unclean spirit may be deemed as having gone out of the man. Yet the house is empty, for the people still have not received Christ. In the future, during the three and a half years of the Great Tribulation, the phenomenon of demon possession will be much more serious.

The previous section spoke of the repentance of the Gentiles; this section relates the condition of the unrepentant people.

v.43 "Dry" (the literal rendering of "waterless") means nothing that gratifies. Only human bodies make demons comfortable. The unclean spirit therefore wanders everywhere seeking a place of rest, which is to say that it is seeking out a person to possess.

v.44 The evil spirit takes a man’s body as his house. "Swept" is negative, the action of removing inside things out. "Garnished" is positive, the action of adding things in. The Jews fit exactly these descriptions. Yet, says the Lord, they are empty.

Historically the Jews are absolutely cured of idol worship, but morally they have reformed themselves only a little bit outwardly.

v.45 Demons like to dwell in the bodies of moral persons. The most corrupted people are not only a problem to God and men but also a nuisance to the demons. A person with only some moral improvement yet who does not have Christ in him will find himself in even a worse situation than that of a completely corrupted person.

Some people have attempted, without clear justification, to translate the Greek word genea in this passage as "race" instead of "generation"; and hence they have assumed that this refers to the race of Israel. If so, however, will not all Israel be annihilated?

Obviously, this is an incorrect interpretation. The generation in question here does not refer to race nor to a limited period of time of say 30 or 40 years; rather, it points to a period characteristically marked by evil and adultery. As long as evil and adultery persist, even that long will this generation last.

Clearly the unrepentant in this passage is referring to people who are unregenerate, not to Christians. Christians are regenerated. Those who are regenerated have the Holy Spirit indwelling and the evil spirit has been ousted.

I pray one day you will give your life to Christ, since you continue to refuse the blood of Christ that once saves always saves His elect. Those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Since you were neve born-again you will perish.

"There Remaineth No More a Sacrifice for Sins" (Hebrews 10.26)

What is meant by "there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10.26)?

Answer:

"If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10.26). What is meant by "no more a sacrifice for sins"? Some people will say: "If I sin willfully after I have known the truth, I will not be saved. It is true that God has caused His Son to bear my sins and die for me that I might be saved through believing in His Son; but if I sin willfully, then according to Hebrews 10.26 there does not remain anymore sacrifice for sins, and consequently I will not be saved. Furthermore, the next verse states that there remains ‘a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries’ (v.27). So if I sin willfully, I can only wait for two things: one is judgment, the other is the fire which shall devour the adversaries, which is hell or perdition." In the view of these people this passage of the Scriptures is directed at Christians; so that if a Christian sins willfully he cannot be saved. Let us now see whether "if we sin wilfully" has reference to Christians or to another class of people. We shall also want to see if "sin wilfully" points to ordinary sin or rather to some specific sin.

According to the statement of the Bible, those people who "sin wilfully after that [they] have received the knowledge of the truth" have "a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries". Therefore, these cannot be that class of persons, mentioned in Hebrews 6, "who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift". The "truth" mentioned here is that truth spoken of in the first part of Hebrews 10, which is the redemption accomplished once and for all by the Lord Jesus Christ. Such people know of the death of the Lord Jesus, of His shed blood and broken body. They even know that they can enter the holy place boldly through the blood of the Lord Jesus and be accepted by God, and that the sacrifice for sins has been offered once and for all, so that the work of redemption is forever completed. Now if these people should sin willfully after they have had such knowledge of the truth as this, then there remains no more a sacrifice for sins.

We need to see that if the above verses could be applied to a Christian, that is, if a Christian is tempted to lie and steal, to frequent places he ought not to go, or do things he knows he should not do, and is thereby considered as sinning willfully and is therefore not saved, who then shall be saved? Even Paul and Peter would probably not qualify for being saved! Has not Paul the believer confessed: "For not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do. . . . For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. . . . Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?" (Rom. 7.15,19,24) Does not Paul practice the evil he knows he should not do and does not do the good he knows he should do? And has not the believing Peter denied the Lord thrice before a maid? Does he not know that he is lying and that lying is sin? From all this we can know that the phrase "sin wilfully" must mean something special [refusing new birth] and not just committing a sin that one knows.

Yet this can be proven even in another way. To do so, we need to read the text of this Scripture passage all in one breath from verse 26 through 29:

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. A man that hath set at nought Moses’ law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

"Think how much more terrible the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God and have treated the blood of the covenant as if it were common and unholy. Such people have insulted and enraged the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to his people" (v.29 NLT). The New Living Translation leaves out "sanctified" as it could create confusion, since many seem to confuse God's sanctifying work as indicating these people are saved. There is a sanctifying work, in which you can outwardly seem like you are in Christ, come so close to God, but inwardly not be regenerated. This is the experience of many who call themselves ex-Christians. This was my experience too in a sense. Ten years before being saved, a miracle happened to me. At that time following the miracle, I recited my testimony of faith through the prompting the gospel message and thought I believed which lasted for about thirty days. However, I lost the feeling and belief in Christ, and for 10 years thereafter never gave Christ a single thought until one day January, 2001, I was once-saved-always-saved, forgiven, truly born-again, and realizing truly for the first time all things sum up in Christ. Actually, it is impossible to be an ex-Christian, for such a person was never born-again to begin with, but "he was sanctified." Wherewith he was sanctified--for Christ died even for him. "Sanctified," in the regenerative sense belongs only to the saved elect. But in some sense it belongs also to those who come so close, yet steer away. The broadest sense, Jesus died for us all. Calvinists tend to take the stance they came so close, but turned away. Those without comfort who think they can lose salvation refer to this verse as those who were born-again but lost their salvation. Others, like myself, refer to this verse as us all being sanctified by what Jesus did ("sanctified" is not in the earliest texts), offering a once-for-all sacrifice and salvation to us all, and those who are saved won't lose eternal life, but will lose our joy if we "throw away confidence, which has a great reward" (v.35).

Either of the person, the apostate himself, who was sanctified or separated from others by a visible profession of religion; having given himself up to a church, to walk with it in the ordinances of the Gospel; and having submitted to baptism, and partook of the Lord's supper, and drank of the cup, "the blood of the New Testament", or "covenant": though he did not spiritually discern the body and blood of Christ in the ordinance, but counted the bread and wine, the symbols of them, as common things; or who professed himself, and was looked upon by others, to be truly sanctified by the Spirit, and to be justified by the blood of Christ, though he was not really so: or rather the Son of God himself is meant, who was sanctified, set apart, hallowed, and consecrated, as Aaron and his sons were sanctified by the sacrifices of slain beasts, to minister in the priest's office: so Christ, when he had offered himself, and shed his precious blood, by which the covenant of grace was ratified, by the same blood he was brought again from the dead, and declared to be the Son of God with power; and being set down at God's right hand, he ever lives to make intercession, which is the other part of his priestly office he is sanctified by his own blood to accomplish. This clause, "wherewith he was sanctified", is left out in the Alexandrian copy." - John Gill's Exposition.

If anyone should tread under foot the Son of God, despise His redeeming blood, and resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit, he will surely go to hell. What is meant by "hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace"? It means that when the Holy Spirit moves in a person’s heart with grace by showing his sins and the salvation which the Son of God has accomplished, by causing him to know how efficacious is this precious Blood to forgive sins, and by persuading him to immediately accept this Blood for the cleansing of all his sins, that person in response resists the request and conviction of the Holy Spirit, loves his sins and uncleanness, and considers the precious blood of the Lord Jesus as insignificant. He may muse within himself as follows: "To listen is one thing, but to believe is too much. I have sinned, but I will continue to commit these my former sins. What do I care if the Son of God loved me and gave himself for me?" By so doing, he is condemning himself to hell because he has trodden under foot the precious Blood. - Full of Grace and Truth I: Volume 1, Watchman Nee

What is really meant by "sin wilfully" in verse 26? It points to the three things in verse 29; namely, (1) trodden underfoot the Son of God, (2) counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified as an unholy thing, and (3) done despite to the Spirit of grace. In sum, it means to reject the gospel of salvation. He has heard the word of God which states that Jesus is the Son of God, yet he answers by saying that Jesus is a bastard. He has heard God’s word which says that Jesus has shed His blood for the remission of sins and that His blood is most precious—even as the blood of a pure spotless lamb [to sanctify-to make holy], but he replies by saying that the death of Jesus is a martyr’s death and that the blood Jesus shed is common just like anybody else’s. He has heard the word of God which says that the Holy Spirit brings repentance and gives eternal life, nevertheless he retorts by declaring that he does not believe God will impart to him what Jesus has accomplished nor does he believe in new birth. Because of this kind of reaction, the Bible’s word is that there remains to him no more sacrifice for sins.

What is meant by "there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins"? "No more" indicates that there once was. We must pay particular attention to this word "more". In this connection please note the following passages of the Scriptures:

"Who needeth not daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people: for this he did once for all, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7.27).

"Nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption" (Heb. 9.12).

"Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place year by year with blood not his own; else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. . . . So Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many . . ." (Heb. 9.25-28).

"Else would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshippers, having been once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins" (Heb. 10.2).

"By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins: but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" (Heb. 10.10-12).

Why do all the above passages indicate that the Lord Jesus has not offered himself many times but only once? It is because, beginning from Chapter 7, the book of Hebrews dwells on the comparison between the sacrifice which the Lord Jesus has offered and the sacrifices offered in the Old Testament period. The Lord Jesus Christ has offered himself only once and has forever accomplished eternal redemption; whereas the sacrifices mentioned in the Old Testament were in the form of bulls and goats which were offered year by year. Individually speaking, anyone living in the dispensation of the Old Testament had to bring and offer a bullock or a goat or a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons as a sin-offering each time he sinned. Corporately speaking, the whole congregation of Israel had to offer yearly, on the day of atonement, the sin-offering.

Why must they offer bulls and goats as sacrifices year after year? Because the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sins. People had to offer sacrifice for the sins of this year as well as the sins of last year. Only Jesus Christ through the eternal Spirit has offered himself to God, and by so doing has obtained eternal redemption so that He has perfected forever us who are sanctified (Heb. 9.14,12; 10.14).

Consequently, Hebrews 10 follows this up by saying that anyone who has heard the truth and yet has sinned willfully has rejected the Holy Spirit as well as the blood of the Son of God. For such a person who has despised the Son of God there remains no more sacrifice for sins. For people in the Old Testament time, if they missed the opportunity for atonement one year they still might have it the following year. But today, if any man should reject Jesus Christ, there does not remain anymore sacrifice for sins, since even the sin-offering of the Old Testament dispensation has passed and is therefore no longer effective. Whoever has the knowledge of the truth but rejects it has no more sacrifice for sins available to him. For "in none other is there salvation" (Acts 4.12). God had done His uttermost when He sent the Lord Jesus Christ to this world to accomplish the work of redemption so that we might be saved. There is therefore nothing more He can add. Accordingly, the Bible tells us that if any man should sin willfully, that is, reject the gospel which he has heard and known, it is finished and done with for him. His end is nothing but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 6.1-8 says that the end of the class of people therein mentioned is "nigh to a curse"; but Hebrews 10.26-29 says that the result for its group of people is to be burned with the "fire which shall devour the adversaries"; how then can this latter group ever point to Christians? This passage can mean none but those who have knowingly rejected the gospel, therefore there is no other salvation. Otherwise, why should the word "more" be used in saying "there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins"? Why should the word "once" be used repeatedly in the preceding verses? By joining these words within their context, we can easily discern the meaning of the words "there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins".

John 8

Some were trying to kill Jesus in John 8. "You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings" (John 8.31). How can someone trying to murder Jesus remain faithful to his teachings? Therefore, what is meant in verse 31 are those who remain faithful, that is to say, accepting what Abraham truly taught (v.33) leads to what Jesus taught. It's a process in the process of receiving initial salvation: being born-again.

Non-OSASers Going to Hell

Since you have never been born-again and admit have never admitted that you are, surely you're going to Hell. I do pray one day you will give your life to Christ and be my brother in Christ. I would not wish upon my worse enemy to go to Hell where you are going. And if you continue as you are, I am even grateful to God that I will not always shed a tear for you and you'll be forgotten, because in Hell you will be where you truly belong, locking yourself from inside. Very sad. This is God's love to not allow you in the presence of His elect in the New City; likewise, we lock people up in jail for life for the same reason because they and you are unhealthy to be around.

Since you have the same faith as the great harlot of religious Rome, the Roman Church that will be destroyed, claiming you can lose salvation tomorrow, it shows you were never born-again once-saved-always-saved so, obviously, you will perish with them. Pride exalts oneself in salvation by works to get saved or keep oneself saved, but it is entirely delusional to think you can do that considering God is infinitely greater than you, and a sinner can't work off his sins to be saved or has the strength to keep oneself faithful. You, William Lane Craig and the Roman Chuch adherents are going to Hell.

I suppose it is possible you might actually think you are saved, but good intentions pave the way to Hell. True spiritual reality that sets you free is accepting God's terms which you still refuse to do, for you still continue to worship your false Christ of the great harlot that makes drunk the nations with her deceit (Rev. 14.8). Don't you know the Bible warns that there would be many false Christs as well as many followers of those false Christs?

Those who are born-again have "eternal life" so "they shall never perish" and "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10.28).

If you are unwilling to accept this fact, it clearly shows you are not a Christian, but a worshiper of a false Christ. This is a test.

FACT 1: Those who are born-again have initial salvation, are regenerated and have eternal life.

FACT 2: Those who are born-again ARE also members of the body of Christ/members of the Church.

FACT 3: Members of the body of Christ are all regenerated and cannot be plucked out of God's hands, and they can never perish.

CONCLUSION: If anyone does not accept these three facts they are obviously not Christians, they have no relationship with Jesus, and therefore, they must go to Hell. In fact, they submit themselves to Hell and lock themselves in Hell from the inside because they want to remain in their delusional state, eternally separated from the love of God and presence of God.

You have written a lot of text in which, unfortunatelly, you intentionally twist the Holy Scripture, explaining it in your way, not in accordance with itself. It would be necessary much time to answer all this, but instead I’ll answer something we discussed earlier and that will be enough to cover answer on your last posts since the point is that you refuse truth of the Bible, so if you didn’t accept biblical truth earlier it’s not worth to answer on your later denial biblical truths.

For example, you said (http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...-Going-to-Hell, 08-08-2012, 02:23 PM #5):
“Nowhere in Matthew 7.22,23 do we find Hell spoken of in any way so these passages are speaking to Christians who are being carnal and thus, shall receive their discipline.”
It is not spoken in Matthew 7:22,23 but, as I said, it is spoken in Matthew 7:19 (“Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.”). It is also spoken in Matthew 7:13 which is part of the same context; “lawlessness” from verse 23 is “broad way” from verse 13 “that leadeth to destruction”. Here is word “destruction“ synonym for the Hell.
Then, words from verse 23 “I never knew you” are parallel with words from Luke 13:25 “I know you not whence ye are” which represent answer on question put in Luke 13:23: “Lord, are there few that be saved?” Then in verses 27 and 28: “…depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.²⁸ There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.” All of us know that a place where shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth is the Hell. Etc. (Read in Luke 13 all verses from v. 23 to v. 30).
So, it’s clear that Churchwork’s explanation that “"Depart from me" simply denotes that they have no part in the glory, a glory which is very different from what is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 1.9” is totally wrong.

Another good example is that we discussed out of forum.
Churchwork:
“You quoted verses without comment on them. How is that clear?”

Aleksandar:
“Well, I don't know what's unclear e.g. from this:
“And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” (Mat 6:12)
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Mat 6:14-15)
That means that if we forgive we'll be forgived. If we don't forgive, Father will not forgive us what means we'll go to the Hell. So, even born again can go to Hell if they don't forgive others.”

Churchwork:
“Quoting a verse as though it agrees with you without any comment on it shows your overassuming nature as well as lack of consideration for others because you don't give your interpretation.
I see you made a short comment this time, but your interpretation is false since the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast. So a Christian who doesn't forgive someone isn't going to Hell, but they certainly will lose rewards.”

It’s not true. Christian who doesn't forgive someone is going to Hell.

So, we will neither be saved only by works nor only by faith but by both of them. When the Bible says that we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ it implies that we obey God in whom we believe. As the Bible says: “demons believe and tremble”, but they disobey God, they are against Him. So, let’s not be like demons but like true Christ’s disciples who not only listen to God's word but also do all He ordered as God says in the Bible that we must do to be saved. Faith is at the first place and then works at the second place. Works follow faith. That’s why I say it is works of faith. But both is necessary. Faith saves man, but if we see that man does iniquity, doesn’t repent, doesn’t confirm his faith in everyday life then that means he doesn’t have faith though he says he has it. So, real faith is confess of Jesus by lips, heart and good works. We can’t do good works by own means, but by The Holy Spirit. We do a little, God does all other. But, if we don’t have good works that means we are not in Grace of The Holy Spirit.

...

You seem hurt, because you are no longer talking to me personally in your posts, but talking about me.

You got yourself caught in a lie. I said in post #5, “Nowhere in Matthew 7.22,23 do we find Hell spoken of in any way so these passages are speaking to Christians who are being carnal and thus, shall receive their discipline.” I said this in response to what you said in post #4: "It is about Hell for those who trespass because 'cast into the fire' is clearly mentioned. And in verse 22 and 23." Fire and Hell are not mentioned in verses 22 and 23. Then you changed your story and agreed, "It is not spoken in Matthew 7:22,23." You're confused. You should acknowledge your former mistake in claiming Hell is mentioned in these two verses.

Matt. 7.15-20 is a passage talking about false prophets. Matt. 7.21-23 is talking about conditions for entering the kingdom (not the New City but the millennial reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years). You're conflating and mingling passages that talk about eternal perdition with the millennial kingdom. Satan is the author of confusion and you are doing his bidding.

Matt. 7.13-14 is talking about the two gates and the two ways, not about eternal perdition. This passage is talking about the conditions for entering the kingdom. Many are called Christians but few are chosen to reign during the millennial kingdom. The gate speaks of outward conduct and the way of a deeper inner life in Christ daily along the path of an overcomer.

Why is it so important to "enter in by the narrow gate"? The word "destruction" may mean either perdition or ruin. In the case at hand, it is better to translate the word as "ruin" or "waste"; in other words, what is meant here is that everything will be demolished or ruined if the wide gate and the broad way are chosen (the dross of those false works will be burned off by Hell). And even should the word "destruction" be translated as "perdition" it can only refer to temporary, not eternal, perdition. Recall the analogy of someone painting a house but gets paint all over himself because he was sloppy. Instead of being able to go directly to the soothing shower, representing the marriage feast of the millennial kingdom, he must have gasoline applied to his skin which stings to take the paint off his skin. So before he can even enter outer darkness he first must have Hell burn off the dross of his false works then he is to be disciplined for 1000 years because he does not get the reward of returning with Christ to reign during the millennial kingdom.

For you it is salvation by works and a person can get resaved over and over, whereas I gave my life to the God who always keeps those who are born-again. I am born-again. I'm humble enough to accept that I could not keep myself saved. You admit you have never claimed to be born-again. Of course you are not born-again.

Weeping and gnashing of teeth just refers to regret. It does not necessitate going to Hell. "I never knew you" also doesn't indicate going to Hell, but can refer to not recognizing one's works as valid. Thus, there are consequences for Christians, many whom will lose the reward of returning with Christ to reign on earth for 1000 years. Though they cannot lose eternal life they certainly can lose rewards. But you are not even saved.

Not forgiving someone has consequences for a Christian by losing rewards. How strange a faith you have that the second a Christian does not forgive someone they would not be saved so they have to get saved again. How precious are the Lord's words that salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast.

We are saved by grace through faith alone for initial salvation. Since salvation is not by works, we can neither gain salvation nor lose it by works even by our faith once saved. God keeps us who are born-again faithful. But we can lose rewards if our works are inadequate and not in accordance with God's will for us.

Works are necessary unto rewards, not for initial salvation, nor to keep oneself saved. Thus, since you claim you can lose salvation tomorrow, this is how I know you were never born-again, because in your pride you think you are strong enough, great enough, to keep yourself saved by your works. If you were a Christian you would have known that God who is infinitely greater than us says no man can keep the law, we are all sinners, so He affords us one thing to be able to come to the cross as helpless sinners to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior, the very Jesus who keeps His elect and lets no man pluck us out of His hand. Even when we are not faithful, He remains faithful for us to keep us saved.

The Bible distinguishes between the righteousness of Christ and the righteousnesses of the saints. These righteousnesses of the saints are in keeping with the righteousness of Christ, but a Christian who is being self-righteous will be cast into outer darkness, outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ for the 1000 years.

My prayer is one day you give your life to Christ, because clearly you are not born-again, not a child of God and not a member of the body of Christ. Your faith is in agreement with the Roman Church and William Lane Craig. You are going to Hell with them since you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be kept to receive Jesus, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand" (John 10.28). You're like someone who has entered the door with one foot out at all times or like a bad marriage with a prenuptial in hand ready to deploy at any moment the minute things are not going your selfish way.

It gets you off to lord over others they lose salvation according to their works when in reality no man is even able to keep them, and you pridefully assuming all your works are right. Where you see righteousness of your works, I see your self-righteousness that does not come from the Holy Spirit. Are there others on the planet like you who, henceforth, never sin and all their works are always perfect? You are so great! Who can compare to you? Are you the only one able to keep the law or are there others like you? But I thought the Bible says nobody can keep the law, and if you try to live by the law you will die by the law in your works, even a law you create for yourself.

Your faith is so cold and empty. Where the Bible is often talking about overcoming in Christ, you are relegating it only to being saved and not being saved as you throw out the millennial reign of Christ on earth, removing this passages from the Bible such as: "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints (not all saints just the overcomer believers, Rev. 20.4-6). To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him" (Jude 14,15). Where does Jesus come to? To earth. To the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem. Are you an adherent of replacement theology hostile to God's promise to Israel?

How shallow the Bible would be if it only talked about salvation and not being saved, rather than also talking about overcoming in Christ, rewards and accountability for Christians: "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" (Rev. 2.26-29). The churches are localities of believers that are saved, born-again, having eternal life which can never be lost.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" (Eph. 1.13,14).

"But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has commissioned us; who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee" (2 Cor. 1.21-22).

It makes me sad that you know no such salvation that can never be lost so the Lord does not know you. He not only disapproves of your works, but also the false Christ you worship, thus, you have never been born-again or received eternal life. You are going to Hell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Churchwork

You seem hurt, because you are no longer talking to me personally in your posts, but talking about me.

---

I'm not hurt. I cited discussion between you and me because I considered that it's good way to more lighten this topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Churchwork

You got yourself caught in a lie. I said in post #5, “Nowhere in Matthew 7.22,23 do we find Hell spoken of in any way so these passages are speaking to Christians who are being carnal and thus, shall receive their discipline.” I said this in response to what you said in post #4: "It is about Hell for those who trespass because 'cast into the fire' is clearly mentioned. And in verse 22 and 23." Fire and Hell are not mentioned in verses 22 and 23. Then you changed your story and agreed, "It is not spoken in Matthew 7:22,23." You're confused. You should acknowledge your former mistake in claiming Hell is mentioned in these two verses.

---

I didn't lie. I just didn't speak quite precisely. When I said: "It is not spoken in Matthew 7:22,23." I meant word "Hell" is not spoken, but that the Hell is spoken in Matthew 7:19 through word "fire" (phrase "cast into the fire") .That I really think that verse 22 and verse 23 speak about the Hell though word "Hell" is not mentioned, the proof is this what I said too: "It is also spoken in Matthew 7:13 which is part of the same context; “lawlessness” from verse 23 is “broad way” from verse 13 “that leadeth to destruction”. Here is word “destruction“ synonym for the Hell." what is in accordance with what I said earlier too: "It is about Hell for those who trespass because 'cast into the fire' is clearly mentioned. And in verse 22 and 23." So, maybe I didn't speak quite precisely, but you must understand that I have no a lot of time for writing, that I write here in English and not in Serbian which is my native language and that some mistakes, unfortunately, can't be avoided. Nevertheless, I think that most of this I write is understandable, that I have not a lot of mistakes and that if you had pure heart you could understand this not as my lie (what it isn't), but as it is, as I have just described. The most important is true spirit in which I write. On the other hand, unfortunately, I see that you write many lies and slanders about me. But, God will judge all of us, all our thoughts and all hidden in heart will be known to all angels and men if we don't repent on time.

...

>>Conditional security is acceptable only to those who also believe that they somehow contributed to their salvation in the first place (which Arminian theology logically implies). But this flies in the face of such passages as Ephesians 2:8-9: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast,” which clearly assert that we contribute absolutely nothing to our salvation; even the faith necessary to receive the gift of grace, is itself a gift of God.<<[1]

This calvinistic interpretation is completely wrong and unbiblical. The Bible teaches that every man contributes to his own salvation. That contribution The Bible calls “ the acts of faith”. The Bible also teaches that there are other kinds of acts, which do not contribute to the salvation and which are called “the acts of the law”. Calvinists do not make that biblical difference, between “the acts of faith” and “the acts of the law”, and that is why they misinterpret the words “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” in the Ephesians 2:8-9. In this quotation by “the acts” The Bible means “the acts of the law”, i.e. physical circumcision, and not “the acts of faith”. What indicates that fact is the expression "so that no one can boast" which is parallel to the sequential part:

...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aleksandar

>>Conditional security is acceptable only to those who also believe that they somehow contributed to their salvation in the first place (which Arminian theology logically implies).

---

Conditional security is not even applicable to Arminians, for an Arminian gives his life to the God who keeps. Thus, God keeps those who came to the cross as helpless sinners to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. Jacob Arminius said never once did he ever teach a person could lose salvation so don't sin bearing false witness against him. Conditional security, rather, is limited only to Remonstrants who hold the same teaching as the Roman Church and Eastern Orthodox and so many other religions and denominations. It is the most popular teaching in Christendom, but it is not Christian.

Are faith and works contrasted as opposites? "By grace are ye saved, through faith;...not of works" (Eph. 2.8-9); "But to him that worketh not, but believeth..." (Rom. 4.5). Christ repeatedly gave such invitations as "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11.28), and "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink" (John 7.37).

Does an Arminian contribute to his salvation? God does the saving, of course, and has set it up so that to be saved a person must search God out with all his heart and soul so as to surely find Him. Only then will God give the gift of repentance and faith unto regeneration which can never be lost. Since every human being has been provided sufficient grace to have the free choice, none of us are without excuse.

All 5 points of Calvinism are false: total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints. The saints don't persevere to keep themselves saved. How similar the 5th point of Calvinism is to the 5th point of Remonstrants. All 5 points of Arminian are true that God predestinates by foreknowing our free choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints. The 5th point of Remonstrants is false, that being non-preservation of all the saints which is Satanic.

Calvinism is just as false as Remonstrants. Aleksandar, you are not an Arminian, but a Remonstrant, because you refuse to give your life to the Jesus who always keeps, exalting your own self-strength to keep yourself saved or to lose that salvation. Clearly, you have never been born-again and are no better off than Calvinists who are also going to Hell with you. And that makes me sad for you, for you know not what you do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aleksandar

I'm not hurt. I cited discussion between you and me because I considered that it's good way to more lighten this topic.

---

You're not being honest with yourself. You said, "So, it’s clear that Churchwork’s explanation that...." is not the same as "Churchwork, it is clear that...." When Jesus spoke to people He did so personally. If all you want to do is post about me rather than have a conversation with me then you are on the wrong forum.

Don't be hurt, for your feeling is untrustworthy. It is the product of a lie in worshiping a false Christ who is unable to save all those born-again.

Quote:

---

I didn't lie. I just didn't speak quite precisely. When I said: "It is not spoken in Matthew 7:22,23." I meant word "Hell" is not spoken, but that the Hell is spoken in Matthew 7:19 through word "fire" (phrase "cast into the fire") .That I really think that verse 22 and verse 23 speak about the Hell though word "Hell" is not mentioned, the proof is this what I said too: "It is also spoken in Matthew 7:13 which is part of the same context; “lawlessness” from verse 23 is “broad way” from verse 13 “that leadeth to destruction”. Here is word “destruction“ synonym for the Hell." what is in accordance with what I said earlier too: "It is about Hell for those who trespass because 'cast into the fire' is clearly mentioned. And in verse 22 and 23." So, maybe I didn't speak quite precisely, but you must understand that I have no a lot of time for writing, that I write here in English and not in Serbian which is my native language and that some mistakes, unfortunately, can't be avoided. Nevertheless, I think that most of this I write is understandable, that I have not a lot of mistakes and that if you had pure heart you could understand this not as my lie (what it isn't), but as it is, as I have just described. The most important is true spirit in which I write. On the other hand, unfortunately, I see that you write many lies and slanders about me. But, God will judge all of us, all our thoughts and all hidden in heart will be known to all angels and men if we don't repent on time.

---

A lie is still a lie whether you intentionally committed it or not. It was not that you were imprecise, but you were dead wrong. You said, "It is about Hell for those who trespass because 'cast into the fire' is clearly mentioned. And in verse 22 and 23." Fire and Hell are not mentioned in verses 22 and 23. Then you changed your story and agreed, "It is not spoken in Matthew 7:22,23." You should acknowledge your former mistake in claiming Hell is mentioned in these two verses if you claim you meant the opposite, but don't claim it is because your English is not very good since it is not an error in English. Own your mistake. Take responsibility for your actions.

I think it is rude to repeat what you said rather than respond to what I said. What I said was that you are mingling passages into one which are talking about different things. At least admit you assume since it is not explicitly stated what you believe. Matt. 7.13-14 is talking about the two gates and two ways for believers, not about eternal perdition. Matt. 7.15-20 is talking about false prophets who are going to perdition. And Matt. 7.21-23 is talking about the conditions for entering the millennial kingdom to return with Christ to reign over the nations for 1000 years. By thus reading as such there is no conflict with John 10.28 that those who are born-again "they shall never perish." Amen.

"Destruction" in this context applies to the false works of a carnal Christian, not to the carnal Christian going to Hell. Remember, there are consequences for Christians who are behaving fleshly. Does your faith not allow for this? I recall you saying someone who doesn't forgive goes to Hell. You don't sound very forgiving but blaming so according to you, you should go to Hell. I know many Christians who are unforgiving on some matters, but they don't go to Hell for it though their works shall certainly be burned off by Hell and they shall lose rewards.

Don't blame me for my recognizing the error of your ways. You slander yourself and write many lies which I have exposed here. I am here to point out your overassuming and misreading as a servant of God should to help you. Take it as such and receive the help you so desperately need.

How disconcerting that must be for you Aleksandar that you never know if you will be saved tomorrow since at any moment you could change your mind according to your faith. Therefore, you cannot move forward boldly in life. Whereas Christians we are comforted in knowing God by His grace keeps us faithful and regenerated since this is what we requested of Him to do so in giving our lives to Christ as no man would be strong enough to keep himself faithful and saved. This is the God you have no relationship with; therefore, you are going to Hell. This takes humility to accept. Delusionally, you think you can keep yourself sinless and faithful, but that is just the pride of life. Even more delusional you think you are sinless for if you were not according to your faith you would be going to Hell.

Take it even further. In a billion or trillion years from now, according to your faith, you might have a change of mind since you always have the choice. Why should that choice end after you die in your view? But God says you will remain in Hell for eternity and never change your mind, just as those who are saved will never forsake God in the New City and New Earth in eternity future, not a one. It is sad to know that you believe in Satan's counterfeit who when he gives eternal life when a person is born-again is not really eternal life at all.

Experientially, I have never met anyone over the age of 50 who ever gave their lives to Christ. This is telling. It speaks of the fact they have long since made their decision and they have a foretaste of Hell. They will never change their mind. Just as Christians once-saved will always remain saved. This is what it is to be a Christian. You are not a Christian since you believe potentially you could lose your faith tomorrow.

While I can never have your faith, praise the Lord, you could still be my brother in Christ one day if you were to give your life to the Jesus I have shown you before you leave your body of flesh and blood. The decision is final for those who are born-again today, but the decision is not final for the unsaved until they go to rest. Since you are not born-again, but unsaved, there is still the opportunity for you to give your life to Christ.